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Chiraq bans Muslim head scarves in State Schools

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 06:13 am
In another thread, Walter provided a link to the text of the proposed law, and i provided of translation:

There is a note at the beginning which points out that the text is provisional, and that only such text as that which is subsequently adopted will have the force of law.

The first article reads:

"'There is inserted, in the educational code, after Article L. 141-5, an article L. 141-5-1, thus edited:

'Art. L 141-5-1.--In
[elementary] schools, colleges [publicly supported academies] and secondary schools, the wearing of symbols or modes of dress by which students ostensibly display a religious adherence is forbidden.'

'Internal regulation
[i.e., of the educational code] recalls [i.e., requires] that a disciplinary procedure is [to be] preceded by a dialogue [interview] with the student.' "

The second article lists specifically those cases in which the proposed law will apply, which is to say, which public education institutions, and education institutions receiving public support are affected.

The third article holds that the law will be in effect from the commencement of the first sholastic year after its adoption.

The fourth article requires a review of the law one year after it will have taken effect.

All in all, it seems pretty straight forward to me, and cannot at all be said to target any specific religious group.

(Edit: The translation here is close to literal, but it should be recalled that legalisms are specialized vocabularies which do not intuitively translate into other languages. The bracketed entries above were made by me as explanations.)

Here is the Text of this law[/color] which Walter provided, in pdf format.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 09:31 am
A teenager is taking a local education authority to court claiming a ban on her wearing full Muslim dress has effectively excluded her from school.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/3482295.stm

This is ridiculous. The girl is just an "attention seeker" imo.

She has a simple choice. Act reasonably and get a free education. Or pay for it and do what you want. (And if wearing the jilbab is a precondition for any job, then expect job offers to be limited).
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 01:11 am
The upper house of the French parliament has approved a bill banning Islamic headscarves and other religious symbols in state schools.
The proposal was approved with 276 votes in favour and 20 against.

French Senate backs headscarf ban
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 10:00 am
I wonder
if the Moslems in France will quietly accept, demonstrate or for the more militant will it be let the bombings begin?
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McGentrix
 
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Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 11:05 am
They could always move to Iran, or Syria, or Lebenon, or Jordan, or one of the othe Muslim countries in the Middle East. I hear that Sharia law is much less oppressive on women than French law.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 11:32 am
McGentrix wrote:
They could always move to Iran, or Syria, or Lebenon, or Jordan, or one of the othe Muslim countries in the Middle East. I hear that Sharia law is much less oppressive on women than French law.


Since they can move free thoughout the EU, any member state of the EU without such a law would be easier.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 12:03 pm
For those interested, the Senate dossier of the law is available (in French) HERE!
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Mar, 2004 02:04 pm
I'm just pleased that the French authorities have reinforced the law, upheld their constitution and relieved some girls of pressure to wear particular dress. There is nothing in Islam which requires wearing the hajib. There are no losers in this decision.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2004 05:17 pm
But now Islamic militants threaten death and destruction because French children in French state schools are obliged to adhere to the founding principles of the French Repuplic.

Just who the hell are these people? Sick in the head. Islamofascist terrorist scum.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Mar, 2004 08:05 am
I have always felt, personally, that this type of person simply looks for an excuse--they are going to blow something and someone up, first chance they get.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Mar, 2004 09:17 am
And in the wee small hours of the morning, when I wonder about these things (instead of getting my much needed beauty sleep), I'm thinking how best we can hit them before they hit us.

And I've come to the conclusion that we can't. We will for ever be reacting to this sort of terrorism, we can never eliminate it. The only people who can stop the Servants of Allah blowing up a school are the Servants of Allah.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Mar, 2004 10:49 am
Intelligence specialists who studied a letter threatening attacks against France because of its ban on Muslim head scarves in public schools say it does not resemble typical messages sent by radical Islamic groups, the interior minister said today.

And a journalist from "Le Monde", the paper got this letter as well, just said on German radio, they never had published it, if they weren't 'forced' by the French government to do so. (They get a couple of similar letter per week, and definately thaught, this one was a hoax as well.)

Seems to me that the French government doesn't want to make the same mistake, the former Spanish did - now(!), since they didn't inform the public about the threatening against the railway when it happened, but only several weeks later!
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Mar, 2004 11:08 am
Well I hope it was a hoax. I'm sure there are people from all sides trying to make political capital out of the current situation.

Walter, if Bush had a change of heart, and allowed the UN to take the lead role in Iraq by 30th June, Zapetero would not recall the Spanish troops. IF this happened, would Germany be willing to send troops to Iraq under UN command?
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Mar, 2004 11:20 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Walter, if Bush had a change of heart, and allowed the UN to take the lead role in Iraq by 30th June, Zapetero would not recall the Spanish troops. IF this happened, would Germany be willing to send troops to Iraq under UN command?


Certainly .... if we had a conservative government NOW.

I can't see anyone from the momentarily still governing Socialdemocratic-Green coalition, who would support that.

What could happen, however, (will happen, I think), is that we might send medical personnel and/or headquarters officers as part of a NATO contingent
(Earlier this year, it was speculated that the Bundeswehr might participate in a mission in Iraq under strictly defined preconditions.)
However, any decision to send the Bundeswehr to Iraq would require the approval of Parliament.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Mar, 2004 11:35 am
If Germany and France had any thoughts of sending troops to Iraq IMO those thoughts no longer persist. The bombing in Spain took care of that. Did the terrorists win? Darn right they did.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Mar, 2004 11:49 am
If you say so, au.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Mar, 2004 11:57 am
Walter
Laughing
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 12:00 pm
Quote:
Court Evicts Woman for Wearing Headscarf
A Berlin judge forced a mother to leave her son's trial because she refused to remove her headscarf. The devout Muslim woman, whose 20-year-old son faced assault charges on Thursday, left the Tiergarten district court after the magistrate told her she had to either take off her head covering or leave the room. The juvenile court judge had entirely prohibited head coverings in his court, his spokesman told the Berliner Zeitung newspaper. The judge intended for the ban to have a pedagogical effect, encouraging good comportment, the spokesman said. Judges in Germany are free to determine for themselves what behavior is acceptable in court. Some judges forbid wearing hats or caps, which they consider disrespectful. Headscarf bans currently being contemplated in many of Germany's states only apply to civil servants, such as teachers.


source: DW-world
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 12:33 pm
Thanks for that Walter.

I have become a little more tolerant of headscarf wearing since I started this thread. This woman was after all an adult, and the magistrate had complete power to decided if she could wear it. I think he was wrong to tell her to remove it. But I wouldnt make a fuss about it.

Last week a science teacher here was cleared of "religiously aggravated assault" by requiring and helping a muslim girl to remove her headscarf. Some while after the event, the girl claimed the teacher had been insulting to Islam and had scratched her. The teacher was suspended for a year. After the judge cleared her, the court was told how the girl was on the point of being expelled from the school, had a poor disciplinary record and was a known trouble maker. The teacher sat sobbing in the dock.

The question I raised here was specifically about French schoolgirls in state schools. Given the history, I think its still valid to ban scarves.

Actually a scarf isnt good enough according to Islamic dress code I was reading . The girl must cover ALL her hair neck and er chest. And then wear a jilbab covering the entire body down to the ankles. It must not show the body. She must not stamp her feet in case her "front chest" wobbles.

So it seems girls wearing a scarf only are in breech of both Islamic law and French state law.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 12:41 pm
I've been dozens of times in court, especially in junevile courts (nota bene: as a probation officer), and remember that judges quite often used their power re 'acceptable behaviour in court'.

I've read about that teacher.

Another asite: at one school in Germany, all pupils must wear long t-shirts now (mainly because the boys shouldn't see pierced belly buttons).
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