Why believe in god? The theist perspective.

The usual twaddle ! Wake up !

Length of argument does not equate to quality.

The words 'beginning', 'cause', 'complexity', 'size', 'universe' and even 'existence' * are all species specific HUMAN CONCEPTS, most of which have no agreed scientific basis. It follows that 'a God which accounts for them' is a human construction. That is why the few scientists who are believers tend to reject the 'prime mover argument' in favour of a justification of 'God' to account for 'human moral values. The only problem with that fall back position is that 'morality' could be accounted for in terms of 'evolutioniary advantage'.

*NB 'existence of electrons' for example refers only to the probability of observations of interaction phenomena and never to a permanent 'independent state of being'

Neither does brevity.

Dear Fresco, you say:
"The words 'beginning', 'cause', 'complexity', 'size', 'universe' and even 'existence' * are all species specific HUMAN CONCEPTS, most of which have no agreed scientific basis."

That seems to be quite an intelligent thought from you, congrats(?).

But tell me, as we humans are insofar as we know anything at all, it is we who are into knowing, so I ask you:
What thoughts do we have except human concepts?

Now, if you want to insist that we not use human concepts, pray, tell me, what concepts do we use at all?

Dear readers here, let us all sit back and await with bated breath to witness what kind of concepts Fresco will propose we employ aside from human concepts - I am most keen to learn from Fresco what concepts he uses to think on things which do exist, or to think on the issue God exists or not, God in concept as first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

There, I have responded to all the red flags facing my listing of the threads in a2k that I maintain a keen tracking of.

And Fresco is the colleague here who at this point in time is the most present to me, that is some warm body which I can always use to keep me in company.

Thanks, Fresco, and you don't have any longer to resort to foul language to get yourself noticed; I will always keep company with you.

Of course we only have 'human concepts'. That's the whole point (expanded earlier in the thread) which you don't have the intelligence to appreciate with respect to the 'prime mover',argument. You'd rather try to play infantile 'catch you out games'.That's one of the reasons you have become a pariah on multiple forums.

Dear Fresco, how do you think at all, with human concepts or what?

Congratulations ! You've goaded me into responding to you. It wouldn't have mattered if I had written 'Imelda had more shoes than you have brain cells' would it, as long as you hooked a fish ?
(.....swims off into the sunset, hopefully a little wiser.....)

TO ALL

Looking back over the years, this thread has, up to now, been an excellent example of intelligent exchange.

Let us hope it stays that way.

This interests me about you although we rarelly speak. Did you meant imply a personal God or do you have a more abstract aproach like believing in Order vs Disorder ?

Dear Fresco, when I was in grade school we had an arts and crafts teacher, and he taught us two words when we talk about painters and other similar artists, namely" versatile and prolific.

You are versatile and prolific, jumping everywhere in my roster of threads I check on every so often regularly in the morning, and I notice your red flag of having transmitted a post in one or another or several of the threads in my listing for everyday survey.

Time to do serious thinking on any issues of the day, okay?

Personal God.

Dear George, unless memory fails me, we have not gone into dialogue together on God exists or not, in concept as first and foremost the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

I don't know about Al, but to my thinking, to me God is a personal entity, but what is the meaning of the word personal, in the present context?

In the present context, to my stock knowledge of English vocabulary, personal means that God is an agent, or in grammar He is the subject in a sentence where there is a subject and a predicate, instead of being the object in the predicate of a sentence, like these examples of sentences with God as the subject:

1. God is the creator cause of everything with a beginning.

2. God talks to man in His creation of everything with a beginning.

3. God in the religions of Christianism, Islamism, and Judaism talks to man.

There, that is my understanding of God as a personal entity.

Dear readers here let us all sit back and await with bated breath, to witness the reactions of posters here who care to contribute their thinking in this thread.

Annex

After reading this i could start believing in something
http://deworldtoday.com/religion/biggest-proof-god-real/

Me too. It makes me believe in brainless bullshit.

Grow a sense of humor.

Dear Rosborne979, I see hatred in your post, take notice of your words in the text below in Annex, at the bottom, in bold and in bigger font size.

Please do some thinking instead of just expressing hatred; wherefore: rewrite your post.

Dear readers here, there seems to me that there is no dearth of posters who have an agenda of hatred, instead of contributing profitable messages worthy of this a2k forum, profitable to the mutual advantage of readers and posters, in re better and continuous enhancement of man's knowledge of reality.

It really saddens me that a lot of posters I come to hope to engage with me on thinking on truths, facts, logic, and the best thoughts of mankind from since the dawn of man's conscious intelligence, they have nothing but the hatred in their heart expressed with BS in their mouth.

Well, just the same I like this a2k forum because it has not banned me forever, even though I write from my heart and mind on what I think is good for mankind, in the way of enriching mankind in the acquisition of the habit and skill of thinking correctly.

I got banned everywhere [emphasis by exaggeration] because I insist on correct thinking and writing, and forum operators I have met don't believe in correct thinking and writing, they prefer hatred and more hatred and more hatred: that is why there is war because mankind just prefers hatred to love of wisdom.

Dear readers here, let us all sit back and await to witness more hatred from posters here.

Annex

Dear Setanta and all posters here, I am now just going to tell you that I like very much to read something from you that you see to be beneficial to me to learn from you.

On the other hand, I like very much to tell you all also that I like to share with you my finding that before anything else, we must concur that in getting connected with reality that is outside and independent of our mind, we must know that:

"The default status of things in the totality of reality is existence."

There, dear readers here, let us all sit back and await with bated breath to read what my colleagues here have to share with me of any knowledge which they treasure in their heart and mind, and they care to share with me.

Here is again the fundamental statement which I care to share with them, for it is most crucially indispensable for any human with a mind to think, that they know of it, otherwise all their knowledge is grounded on emptiness.

Here is my statement again:

"The default status of things in the totality of reality is existence."

Happy thinking and of course productive thinking, no more please of any hatred, Oh please!

The Death Riddle

death(human)=1; i.e., it is certain.
"All men are mortal." ---Socrates

And death(God)=0; i.e.,
it will never happen.

The philosopher stated, "All men are mortal!"
And the student replied, "Why?" instinctively.
The old man smiled. He looked down at the
young woman kneeling before him. Her face
turned upward to him, her eyes transfixed.
She expected an answer, and not silence.
Yet all he could offer was compassion.

WHY BELIEVE IN GOD !!!!
Of course, mine is a personal interpretation of this issue;' let me ask you, believe in god WHICH GOD ?In my analysis, there are about 2o or more gods on the market and my question is WHICH IS THE RIGHT ONE; I am sure that you are not implying that all gods are real, therefore, which one is the right one ???
If I may advance an opinion, all religions and Gods are originating by human imagination, in the old time, ignorance since the unknown was always mysterious and because lack of an education made people create an entity that knows every thing and can do every thing but TODAY....
We are human being, materialistic and we understand concrete issues only or if not concrete at least with reasoning to be understood, HOWEVER, religions and or GODS, you have to believe by faith and not facts.
I shall hypothesise that in our future, the gods and religions will only be a past believes.
I shall provide you with an example, the church established that the sun was circulating around the hearth, then Galileo proved the contrary and he risked to be burned up as heretic and many other issues that were made by god where later on identified by science as a normal evolution in the cosmos.
I hope that I am nor hurting you in said this but, we are alone, we are animals like the others on this hearth the only difference is that we developed and intelligece while the other species have not

Hi, I am atheist but I see nothing wrong in being a theist, to evaluate a person I would like to have a debate, see what's his reason for believe and I would espose mine for not believing, then and according to his/her idea I may evaluate the person