Why believe in god? The theist perspective.

@FBM,

I do agree with you, bible literalists seem to want to scare people into submission. When they try their tactics on me i always ask them whether are they are perfect, then they back off. I do think that they have tried to stall scientific progresses like Galileo and Darwin which i think is bizzare. What do you think about the Old World concepts of Mother Earth and Father Sky, the supposed parents of creation?

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@FBM,

I do agree with you, bible literalists seem to want to scare people into submission. When they try their tactics on me i always ask them whether they are perfect, then they back off. I do think that they have tried to stall scientific progresses like Galileo and Darwin which i think is bizzare, maybe they're like scared children in their own minds? What do you think about the Old World concepts of Mother Earth and Father Sky, the supposed parents of creation?

1 Reply

@Amoh5,

Quote:

What do you think about the Old World concepts of Mother Earth and Father Sky, the supposed parents of creation?

Rhetorical fancifications, as far as I can tell. More anthropomorphization. Again, if such ideas make you peaceful and happy, go for it. They don't do anything for me, but I'm very much for diversity in thinking. If someone pressures me to believe in those concepts or, in particular, if they suggest hurting others for not believing in them, then I have a problem with them. Even if it's something indirect as vaccine denialism based on those beliefs, I'll still raise a ruckus over it. When it comes down to real decisions on how someone should behave, I want careful, evidence-based reasoning, not faith in the unseen.

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@FBM,

Yes i agree, one must have substantial evidence in order to believe something to be true. Like the saying, "one must check the mechandise before handing over the money" otherwise you may be getting ripped off. I am curious of what other people may think of these Old World concepts because they are supposed to represent male and female. They also invoke the assumptions of physical male and female immortality. However, they are just a curiousity for me since reading other posts on people looking for physical evidence of God. Are they hoping to find a genie type god or a Santa Claus type god where hard work, blood, sweat and tears don't apply?

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@Amoh5,

Just curious about this. You say your allegiance is only to Jesus but Jesus said:

"Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."

The only way to square this is if you believe Jesus IS God. Do you believe that? I won't try to change your mind if you do but if so, how do you reconcile Jesus's words:
"I came not to do my will, but my Father's".

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@Leadfoot,

Lord Jesus also said that the Father is in him, and he is in the Father, therefore Lord Jesus is the true spirit of God. If your allegiance belongs to Lord Jesus it automatically belongs to the spirit of God. I think he is speaking in a spiritual context when he says he is doing the will of his Father, the spirit of God whom only he knows fully and wholeheartedly.

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@Amoh5,

Yes, it also says "I (Jesus) and my Father are one" and "a man and a woman shall be as one."

It just means to be of one mind, not that they are literally the same being. If you read it as if Jesus IS God, much of the Gospels read like gibberish.

There are innumerable scriptures where Jesus always gave deference to God his father. Jesus's will is in full accordance with his father's but at the same time he was always careful to put his father first and to tell us to do the same.

None of this is meant to be disparaging of what Jesus did, for which I am eternally grateful.

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@Amoh5,

Amoh5 wrote:

Yes i agree, one must have substantial evidence in order to believe something to be true. Like the saying, "one must check the mechandise before handing over the money" otherwise you may be getting ripped off. I am curious of what other people may think of these Old World concepts because they are supposed to represent male and female. They also invoke the assumptions of physical male and female immortality. However, they are just a curiousity for me since reading other posts on people looking for physical evidence of God. Are they hoping to find a genie type god or a Santa Claus type god where hard work, blood, sweat and tears don't apply?

I'm not sure I can speak for others. As for me, I don't think about those concepts at all. But you say that one "must have substantial evidence in order to believe something to be true," yet you also believe in a god. That would seem to suggest that you have "substantial evidence." If so, please share that. I've been asking people for such for a long time, but nobody has shared anything substantial.

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@FBM,

I am not trying to ridicule people who are searching for a God where hard work, blood, sweat and tears don't apply. I can understand that no one really likes pain etc including me, but i think there are necessary pains of life that we have to go through in order to prosper. I just think they will be searching for a very long time. However, my interpretation(from Lord Jesus) of God is "the spirit of family" which is a critical factor of creation, otherwise there is no life. When i say spirit, i mean "having a sense of" When i say family i mean procreating, family nuturing, support and respect. When we lose our sense of family there is only self-destruction. I admit that i need guidance and support in this area, especially when life gets tough and frustrating. Lord Jesus merely helps me to realise negative anti-human thoughts so i don't dwell on them. And yes, some Christians like to call these thoughts "satan". But satan to me is just anti-human thoughts, thoughts that are against or don't care about the well-being of humanity or a human being. Lord Jesus says in the New Testament that God is spirit, and the way of the Father which literally comes from the context of family. And yes, i like to by-pass all the magical literature. I think historic events and writings tend get mythicalised and figurated for some reason or another.

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@Leadfoot,

I am glad to hear that you are inspired by God and Lord Jesus. I too get a great comfort from God and Lord Jesus. My Christian perception is based on spirit(having a sense of) rather than physical. I believe the spirit drives the physical, not the other way around. I too am eternally grateful to Lord Jesus who is the true spirit of God

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@Amoh5,

Amoh5 wrote:

I am not trying to ridicule people who are searching for a God where hard work, blood, sweat and tears don't apply. I can understand that no one really likes pain etc including me, but i think there are necessary pains of life that we have to go through in order to prosper. I just think they will be searching for a very long time. However, my interpretation(from Lord Jesus) of God is "the spirit of family" which is a critical factor of creation, otherwise there is no life. When i say spirit, i mean "having a sense of" When i say family i mean procreating, family nuturing, support and respect. When we lose our sense of family there is only self-destruction. I admit that i need guidance and support in this area, especially when life gets tough and frustrating. Lord Jesus merely helps me to realise negative anti-human thoughts so i don't dwell on them. And yes, some Christians like to call these thoughts "satan". But satan to me is just anti-human thoughts, thoughts that are against or don't care about the well-being of humanity or a human being. Lord Jesus says in the New Testament that God is spirit, and the way of the Father which literally comes from the context of family. And yes, i like to by-pass all the magical literature. I think historic events and writings tend get mythicalised and figurated for some reason or another.

Erm. That's nothing like evidence, but I'm guessing that you don't have any, either. Long story short, there are only two reasons that I can think of at the moment that I would criticize you. One is if you were in favor of or capable of violence in support of your religious beliefs. The second is if you were aggressive in spreading your faith-based belief system to others.

Oh, maybe three: If you opposed evidence-based, scientific facts in favor of faith-based alternatives to the detriment of the public or an individual's welfare, such as anti-vaccine (closely related to anti-evolution), refusing modern health treatments for the critically ill - particularly children and the elderly - in favor of prayer (faith healing), and so forth.

Dammit, OK, four: If you vote based on one's religious affilitation rather than his/her ability to govern rationally.

Gaaah! Five, then: If you knock on my door every weekend in the morning in order to try to sell me your myths.

******* hell. Six. If you repress people such as sexual/gender minorities, people of other religions or no religion...

I'm just going to stop here...I hope you get the picture. If you're harmless, I don't care what goes on between your ears. If you're the type to impose your religious beliefs on others or to support those who do so, then we have a problem.

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@FBM,

Like i said Christianity works for me in a reaistic practicle way and keeps me reasonably well and thriving. If science, atheism, fantasy or whatever keeps you well and thriving, then its all good to me, whatever keeps us on the path of prosperity. I'm human too i use four letter words when the pressure is on. I don't have any problems with atheists either, there are decent, beautiful human beings who are atheists and there are ratbag ones just like any other group including including Christians. You get the good and bad apples in all groups. I don't have any problems with science or evolution either. Like i said i'm not a bible literalist going around telling people they are going to suffer hell fire if they don't believe in my perception. I don't like to go around preaching to people either because you have make sure your backyard is dam well spec and span. I don't think i'm above any other human being. I don't think i'm perfect, but i strive to be perfect in the spirit of Lord Jesus. I just thought it would be interesting to share my views on why i believe in God, a theist's perspective. You know its quite interesting to read posts claiming that science and Christians are not compatible, when a matter of fact when i googled Christian scientists it came up with "List of Christian thinkers in science" It had most of the great scientists of our modern age like Galileo, Newton, Volta, the Wright brothers, Lematre, Eluer, Kepler, Faraday and heaps more. I'm not boasting or anything, i just think its very contradictary when people imply that science belongs only to atheism, or theists are not scientific thinkers, just another point i thought i'd add to the pot

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@FBM,

Christianity is the true religion.
Can I ask you a few questions

1. The bible said the pope will resign, no?

2. Why did the vatican get struck when he did resign?

3. Why is christianity the most hated religion in this society?

And Btw, everybodys sins are from Satans temptations.

Go ask everyone that sins ALOT if they love GOD. See their response.

Ask them if they are for Satan, see their response .

9/10 you'll hear they love GOD, despise satan yet they do his will on the daily.

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@Johnjohnjohn,

Johnjohnjohn wrote:

1. The bible said the pope will resign, no?

no

(look up when the Catholic church was formed - compare that information to when the writings which are the base of the Bible were written)

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@Amoh5,

Amoh5 wrote:

Like i said Christianity works for me in a reaistic practicle way and keeps me reasonably well and thriving. If science, atheism, fantasy or whatever keeps you well and thriving, then its all good to me, whatever keeps us on the path of prosperity. I'm human too i use four letter words when the pressure is on. I don't have any problems with atheists either, there are decent, beautiful human beings who are atheists and there are ratbag ones just like any other group including including Christians. You get the good and bad apples in all groups. I don't have any problems with science or evolution either. Like i said i'm not a bible literalist going around telling people they are going to suffer hell fire if they don't believe in my perception. I don't like to go around preaching to people either because you have make sure your backyard is dam well spec and span. I don't think i'm above any other human being. I don't think i'm perfect, but i strive to be perfect in the spirit of Lord Jesus. I just thought it would be interesting to share my views on why i believe in God, a theist's perspective. You know its quite interesting to read posts claiming that science and Christians are not compatible, when a matter of fact when i googled Christian scientists it came up with "List of Christian thinkers in science" It had most of the great scientists of our modern age like Galileo, Newton, Volta, the Wright brothers, Lematre, Eluer, Kepler, Faraday and heaps more. I'm not boasting or anything, i just think its very contradictary when people imply that science belongs only to atheism, or theists are not scientific thinkers, just another point i thought i'd add to the pot

Well, it seems you put a lot of work into that strawman. I haven't made any claims about personal perfection or any inherent incompatibility between science and religion. Yes, there have been the faithful who have contributed to the scientific worldview over the centuries, but if you look at the big picture, the price of atheism back then was often death. In today's more secular and less murderous society, you'll find only a small fraction of scientists are religious.

Anyway, as long as you're not hurting others or championing the cause of faith over evidence (speaking of faith healing, denialism and the like, there), or knocking on my door on weekend mornings, it's none of my business what goes on between your ears. I wish you the best of whatever the future has in store for you.

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@Johnjohnjohn,

Johnjohnjohn wrote:

Christianity is the true religion.

Prove it.

Quote:

Can I ask you a few questions

Let's start with Step One, then move on to your strawmen appeals. Where is your evidence that yours is the "true" religion?

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@Johnjohnjohn,

Why are asking FBM these ridiculous questions?

Ask your God these questions. But I'm sure you have and I'm sure
you received no answers. If you had you surely wouldn't be asking FBM or anyone else for the answers.

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@mikeymojo,

I asked for you to think about the answers.

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@FBM,

The bible's Prophecies come true. What other religions prophecies do that? Think about Job's experience with GOD. Also, if you didnt notice its really just a big "how to keep a society from crumbling" manual. If you pray to God daily your life will get better by alot. I used to lie , steal, and try to destroy. Thats exactly what the bible says fallen angels do. I prayed to God one day and that behavior went away. Trust in me .

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@Johnjohnjohn,

Why? Those questions mean absolutely nothing and have absolutely no use to anyone.

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Why believe in god? The theist perspective.

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