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Why believe in god? The theist perspective.

 
 
BryanLegend
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Dec, 2013 07:55 pm
@rosborne979,
The bible:) If you regard it as the divine truth then you would come across the doctrine of predestination. And then you have the choice of accepting it. Which I did.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2013 12:07 pm
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/1459850_442574042531203_170710237_n.jpghttp://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/1426515_10201184356394169_831340873_n.jpg
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2013 12:10 pm
@BryanLegend,
You're kind of slow there, Boss. How did it come about that you were exposed to the bible?
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2013 03:04 pm
@BryanLegend,
BryanLegend wrote:
The bible:) If you regard it as the divine truth then you would come across the doctrine of predestination. And then you have the choice of accepting it. Which I did.

What I'm trying to understand is your "root belief", the belief that is the basis for all the rest. Christianity is not something anyone is born with, it has to be learned, and you have to believe something before it in order to accept it.

If you say that you believe what is says in the Bible, then "Why do you believe that"? For example, Did your parents tell you to believe it and you trusted them? Or did you read hundreds of religious books and just felt that the Bible was right? Or do you just trust your instincts? Or something else.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Dec, 2013 10:17 am
Predetermined by "God": http://thetaleofbittertruth.wordpress.com/2013/09/08/suspected-witches-burned-alive-by-christians-in-kenya/
0 Replies
 
muslimman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2014 09:06 am
I pose a question, who is it then that consistently controls and manages night and day with exact calculations because one says nature even though nature itself is not a self-sustaining entity rather the one that created nature and me and you who we will all return to
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2014 10:22 am
@muslimman,
Asking "who" begs the question of an answer in terms of an anthropomorphic entity. So how about "an intelligent powerful alien doing a laboratory experiment in an alternative universe operating on a different time scale to our own" ? Nothing you can say can refute that hypothesis.
The mistake you make is to attempt to use "religion" in the province of "science".
Religion has its uses for many as a psychological comforter and a social regulator but has absolutely nothing significant to say about scientific exploration.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2014 10:26 am
Quote:
Rosborne said: Christianity is not something anyone is born with, it has to be learned

I'd say "sensed" rather than "learned".
That's one of the reasons monks and nuns shut themselves away from the world in monasteries and convents so they can try to "sense" God without any distractions.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2014 11:29 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
No. They were all taught before they sensed anything. Religious dogma is learned.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2014 11:42 am
At school we were taught that Jesus was meek and mild and that he wanted us to be good little boys and girls.
We thought he was basically alright but a bit boring because he never seemed to have any fun.
Then as a rebellious world-hating teenager in my early teens I remembered a few bible snippets about "rejecting the world", so I picked up a bible to look into it further, and was delighted to find that Christianity backs me up every inch of the way; I'd made the vital connection with JC and have never looked back..Smile

"I just keep getting stronger!"
http://imageshack.us/a/img51/7025/zu1s.jpg
0 Replies
 
dhanabal
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2014 01:14 pm
God is everywhere... please see all the below pages then you will come to a conclusion
Edit [Moderator]: Link removed
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2014 02:04 pm
@dhanabal,
Bullshit is everywhere
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jan, 2014 03:41 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
Religion has its uses for many as a psychological comforter and a social regulator but has absolutely nothing significant to say about scientific exploration.


I know how much you love to stress the comforting aspect of religion, fresco, hinting, of course, that you're srtong and need no comfort and that religious people are big softies or touched in the head, and much to your credit it is I must say but it is getting to look like a reflex action on your part not unlike that of a baby sucking its thumb.

It is not too much of a stretch to say that militant atheism is a psychological comforter too in the sense that it makes you feel less regulated socially and the need to feel that sense of freedom is likely to be strongest in those who are most sensitive to being fucked about, up hill and down dale, from morning to night, by all the regulations and minions of our wide sweeping and not to be brooked bureaucracies which would soon become like those of North Korea if there were no Archbishops to stare down their power hungry proposals for want of any opposition from the "stitch-up brigade" which we call a two party system complete with commode big enough for them all to piss in.

Are you sort of weaseling around faintly promising any converts you make that they will be able to hold up their heads proudly and escape being regulated in their social activities? A win/winner eh? With only having to chant the mantra that "Religion has its uses for many as a psychological comforter and a social regulator but has absolutely nothing significant to say about scientific exploration" to be both comforted and freed from regulation despite the scientific fact that without religion there would not be any scientific exploration nor words with more than two phonemes.

The very presence of your post and its expression is 100% proof that you're talking out of your arse.

What you need to do is what Thatcher did to the mines. She didn't say that coal mining was a bad thing. She said it had done its job and it was time to sweep it away. That's a fair enough stance to take. Something to debate. Religious belief cannot be attacked on an Internet network using polysyllabic words without looking like a bit of a mutt. Unless you postulate that this kit we are using could have arrived in your study without the Church's guidance. Even I wouldn't attempt such a task.

What regulations of the Church do you find burdensome? And if you don't, as I feel sure is the case, what is your reason for belittling the comfort of those who find consolation in the Church. It can't be that it is holding up scientific progress when it was the Church that put the flaming torch to the blue touchpaper of science in the first place and has had to wrestle with such an awkward offspring ever since which obviously wants to sprint before it can walk. Science can go to the head you know. Especially with nerds who feel a power inchoate in science which they never felt in anything else and are thus highly motivated to study and become experts so that they can use a highly specialised expertise to boss everybody around there being no other route available. Such as getting elected.

If that's the offer you're pitching it will go the way of the promise to close Gitmo within 100 days of being sworn in.

That we can walk tall as people who need no comforting and have the yoke of the Church's regulations lifted from our shoulders at the same time
Regulation then explodes I fear. As it does naturally with no hindrances. As it has done.

Did you know that a one-time Archbishop of Birmingham did his Master's Thesis on Baudelaire?

I think you ought to develop your ideas on social regulation so that we can examine them for their potential for usefulness.

0 Replies
 
dhanabal
 
  0  
Reply Thu 23 Jan, 2014 12:10 am
@rosborne979,
sorry
0 Replies
 
brandonsays
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2014 12:31 am
@msolga,
I'm new here.

Omg, it's 2014, and this question was asked way back in 2010. Don't they ever disappear? Lol.

Ok, well, it's kind of refreshing in a way that discussions from 2010 are still open.

I'm a theist, and a believing, unapologetic follower of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

I'm neither a homophobe or a bigot in any way, shape or form. I fully believe in the transformational power of God through the good news of Jesus.

Allow me then to address the question, "why believe in God?"

God is necessary for existence. Let's start there. I'm sure there will be lots of questions and objections. I am fully prepared to address them.
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2014 12:54 am
@brandonsays,
Quote:
God is necessary for existence

Smile
Define "existence" !
Dead flies don't "exist" for starving frogs. Existence is a function of the cognitive requirements of species specific observers and their perceptual biases. It has no objective independent status.
brandonsays
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2014 12:55 am
@fresco,
Ok, in my perspective then, you don't exist. Satisfied?
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2014 01:00 am
@brandonsays,
"I" certainly did not exist most of last night in bed ! Nor did "you" !
And are you satisfied that that bizarre thinker in those dreams was "the real you" ? Wink
brandonsays
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2014 01:23 am
@fresco,
That's pretty bizarre in itself, Fresco. Especially since an observer other than myself is perfectly capable of witnessing my existence while sleeping. I think we can lay this absurdity to rest, then?
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2014 01:27 am
@brandonsays,
No.
The fact that some hypothetical observer might be aware for his own purposes of what we call "your sleeping body", is nothing to do with what you call "self".
I've just scanned some of your other posts on this subject.
I agree that "God" is an existential requirement which sustains "that image of yourself" which you evoke from time to time as situations unfold. Your extrapolation of that personal necessity to others is merely a reinforcement exercise for maintenance of your own "self integrity". The fact that "self consciousness" is a transient inconsistent ephemeral phenomenon appears to conveniently escape you.
 

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