Should able2know ban people for having untoward opinions?

I agree. What's right is more important, and more interesting, than who's right.

You are dull, it's not a personal attack it's a fact. Sorry, but that's why people vote you down, it's because you're not interesting and you have no sense of humour at all.

You try to dominate the conversation and tell people what to do. Nobody wants that.

Something can be both a personal attack and a fact. When you have called me a fascist, or a woman-hater, or a fascist, or an idiot or dull... they are personal attacks whether or not they are true. People have also called me fat, and bald; both of which are true, but still nasty and disruptive.

I don't accept any of them are true... and these are subjective judgments anyway. The point is that if I were to defend myself after your nasty "true" attacks... or to punch back, it disrupts from the discussion and makes Able2know a much nastier place.

I am asking for people stop the nasty personal attacks. I accept and appreciate anyone's right to express and defend their opinions or to attack my opinions (attacking an opinion is quite different than attacking a person).

Is that too much to ask?

I don't hate you, you don't stir that amount of emotion. You're more like a mosquito, a minor annoyance.

Here's an idea, stop telling people off, stop telling people how to behave, stop playing the victim and give the paranoid conspiracy theories a miss too.

That way people might want to talk to you.

I don't believe you Izzy. You jumped into a thread I started about Dr. Who for the sole purpose of making personal insults... don't you think that is a little excessive? If I were a minor annoyance, you would ignore me. As it is you have followed me from thread to thread; from threads on feminism to threads on TV shows.

I am only asking.for the personal attacks to end. They disruption discussions and add to the nastiness. You could engage civilly. You could defend your opinion based on facts without nastiness. You could just push the ignore button. But you don't.

This would be a better place without the nasty insults. Is that too much to ask?

There are many people here who cannot distinguish between disagreement and criticism on the one hand, and personal attacks on the other. But that's their problem, and not mine.

You know full well that Doctor Who has been a favourite of mine since early childhood. When you badmouthed it, from a position of ignorance I might add, I put you right.

I've already told you this. You're being dishonest. Btw, I don't care whether or not you believe me, but I have given you good advice. Stop telling people what to do and stop playing the victim all the time.

I didn't know that until you said so... and that doesn't mean that you have to post nasty personal attacks on a Dr. Who thread. I have also watched Dr. Who since Tom Baker... not as long as you, but that doesn't matter, but that doesn't give you any magical ownership of the series. I mean Who cares (hehe)?

I posted that I don't like the writing of the series this year. This is my honest opinion. I am not attacking you in any way. You are welcome to disagree. You are welcome to discuss the topic. You are welcome to simply ignore my thread and move on (there is even a handy ignore button you choose not to use.).

Instead you jump onto this thread for the sole purpose of making personal attacks. This is the problem with Able2know. You didn't come to discuss the topic, you came to throw mud.

If my criticism of the current writing of Dr. Who offends you, that's too bad. That doesn't justify your nasty behavior. Either discuss it civilly or ignore the thread.

My opinion of the writers of Doctor Who is not actually hurting you in any way. It is silly for you to get so bent out of shape over this.

The question really is; under what circumstances are personal attacks justified?

The answer seems to be that if someone expresses an unpopular opinion (even about a TV show) nasty personal attacks are not only accepted... they are encouraged. The distinction between popular and unpopular opinions is what defines the in-crowd.

I don't think this is a good thing.

I do not make personal attacks (except occasionally when I am attacked first... and then I still feel bad about it). I will tell you when I think you are wrong on an issue, and I will try to explain my argument clearly. I will comment on your specific behavior, and I will tell you when on a specific post I think you are being silly, or illogical. I don't call people morons, or attack their character or move nastiness from thread to unrelated thread.

If more people refrained from nasty personal attacks, this would be a better place.

(An exercise for the readers).

Notice the number of upthumbs on posts that contain a direct insult, versus the posts that don't. It kind of makes the point. The nastiness here from people with the "correct" opinions is encouraged.

The thumb up or down has been talked to death. I am pretty sure that at this point there is a bot on A2K that just follows posters with a thumb up or down no matter what they post. It's in the code now.

That's a joke. I realize there isn't really a bot doing anything like that.

My point was more about the encouragement and support for nastiness, rather than about thumbs.

FWIW, I don't believe max believes or disbelieves anything he posts.

I just think he's adept at posting whatever pushes someones buttons, and will cause them to respond.

Since I realized that, I don't feel the need either way to respond or not respond.

Thanks Chai. I appreciate this; especially the part about not feeling the need to respond.

I like to push on ideas... my own ideas and on popularly held ideas. If someone posts something provocative that I find challenging, I will engage enthusiastically. I am happy to take either side of an interesting argument... and often my belief is that both sides have some validity. Some issues are complicated. I want to test both sides as a way of gaining an understanding. I think this is a good thing.

I don't get the point of a group sitting around posting what everyone already believes. Maybe there is a warm fuzzy feeling of confirmation, but but I don't get it. Sometimes that what it feels that what people want.

If someone posts something provocative in an annoying way, I will either ignore it, or post a fact based rebuttal. I don't make personal attacks (although I will point it out when I think an particularly argument is silly).

I wish other people would act this way, and really wish that instead of getting upset and throwing mud, people would just use the ignore button.

To be clear max, that's not what I said, and provided what I did say above your statement.

But, that's just what you do. And I don't think you give people enough credit for seeing through that.

To be specific, I see you as sort of a non person on the internet. You don't have any ideas of your own as far as your "existence" on the internet. What you say may or may not have anything to do with the the person is using their physical fingers to tap keys.

All you do is type whatever will cause people to engage with you. That's why you're considered a troll. You'll just say anything at all. Like you'll most likely respond with something or another in awhile, or sometime after awhile, or not at all if you think that will be the device that will cause some kind of absence of engagement, that is in some strange way an engagement.

Here? I really don't feel I'm engaging with you. Mostly I'm typing this so that those who get all hot and bothered realize they're really just addressing a phantom. Especially those that get all riled. Seriously dudes, you're addressing your comments to nothing.

I don't have any need for the approval of you or anyone else. You have every right to consider me a troll, as does anyone else. You may or may not care that there are people who consider you a troll. It is a subjective opinion who is a troll or not. Some people basis the "troll" designation on whether someone has the "correct" opinions. Other people base it on whether someone makes personal attacks or not.

I like the fact that I can see and argue things from more than one perspective. I think if more people tried to understand things from outside of their own point of view, it would be good for the country. Right now people are more interested in destroying the other side then in trying to understand another perspective. I don't understand why people want an unchallenged group think. What's the point?

I do agree with you... if people are upset by what I type, they should ignore me (and it is not just me). It is far better than these nasty personal attacks that lead to pages and pages of nastiness.

I think you are being nasty... but we are not that far apart in what we are saying. There are enough people who don't consider me a troll. Those that do should use the ignore button. I have had many interactions here that I consider to be worthwhile with people that I respect intellectually but different ideologically. Thomas and Engineer are great examples..

P.s. Chai, you and I have occasionally had interesting interactions (at least from my perspective) where I have respected your intelligence. Sometimes it feels you are willing to step outside of your ideological comfort zone. I am happy when this happens.

The world would be a better place if you would all just agree with me!

No, it is a public forum site and anyone can express their views here.