13
   

Why are people thinking Obama can magically create jobs out of this air.

 
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2010 07:52 pm
@JPB,
Once upon a time, being a career politician was a vaunted position, something to aspire to.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2010 08:20 pm
@plainoldme,
Quote:
Once upon a time, being a career politician was a vaunted position, something to aspire to.
That was a long time ago, the profession was never the same after Watergate..
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2010 09:00 pm
@hawkeye10,
Nonsense. Things were pretty much the same throughout the history of the country. They got worse whenever political forces left members of Congress in office for decades at a time. The"solid south" of decades ago expanded its political power by electing only Democrats and leaving them in office for decades - thus they ended up controlling a disproportionate number of key committees in both House and Senate. This was how they resisted civil rights legislation for so long. Later both Democrats and Republicans became adept at misusing powers under the voting rights act to gerrymander safe districts for themselves, whenever they were in control of the House or state legislatures. Becauser they held majorities longer and in more states, the Democrats were far more successful in this corruption, but that wasn't because the Republicans weren't trying.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2010 09:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I just wonder if there's a revolution in our future? When most of the wealth continues to be accumulated by the few, the majority of people are going to get sick and tired of the greed of those who continue to take the wealth while sharing bits and pieces with the throng.

These are the products that produces revolutions; it's only a matter of time -
Most are unhappy with our governments, and the loss of security (jobs and homes) will only anger more people for a longer period of time. Something is going to burst.
The counter revolution began the moment the revolution ended.. And it is going on as we write... The form of our society does not work for a lot of people, and more people are looking back to older forms like religion than are looking forward to a direct and effective democracy... Religion justifies what morality cannot, and the faith people hold in that old constitution, and the irrational fear they have of godless communism makes them dangerous to a man... So yes; changing of forms, reforms, revolution and counter revolution is inevitable... People change when they must to survive, and it is good if they do so with eyes wide open, conscious of the good they hope to achieve; but that is seldom the case...And if they cannot effect change, if their belief in fate or religion is such that it paralyzes them, then they will crumble before invasion... And that has been the rule, especially in the East, where barbarians flowed only to follow conquest with culture, dissipation, corruption and defeat at the hands of fresh, uncultured conquerors...

Part of the problem with wealth in few hands is that the commonwealth is supposed to support the people, and the people offer a common defense of all the wealth there in... If the poor find themselves defending wealth they will never possess, and find that they must pay for the privilage of doing so, then revolt is possible... The absolute worse thing that could possibly happen is happening, that all foreign policy and domestic activity is decided by money, so that government does not act in the interest of the people, and in addition denies itself the genius of the people... We have some smart people, people who can see the inevitable future; but no person is smarter than all the people, and the smartest of people cannot say for another what he most needs and cannot live without...When money talks and government hears it does not hear the people crying out of their need... I disagree with the right on most issues, but I do not disagree that change is essential...Mr. Obama was elected with a promise of change and immediatly set about the same behavior that brought on the crisis... Instead of rejecting the advice of the class that brought the economy to the edge of total collapse, he invited them into the cabinate... No change will be forthcoming... Which make revolution all the more certain...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2010 09:33 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Fido wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Is it possible for you to write complete sentences, without an ellipsis at the end of every sentence? It is frustrating and nearly impossible to comprehend what you are trying to say, because of your lazy grammar and punctuation.

Cycloptichorn
Listen Mr. One eyed Rat... All you need to understand me is the desire, and no amount of perfection of writing will provide that on your end...


Bull ****. Laziness. You know how to do it right, you just can't be bothered, for some reason. Why? You actually waste more time doing it wrong than you would spend doing it the right way, and what you write would be much more legible and accessible.

You are very critical in your posts of the government, of various entities of modern society, of lots of things - but if you can't be bothered to send your message in a legible fashion, why should anyone give a **** what you have to say?

Cycloptichorn
Is there something special about your **** that I should want you to give one??? I am not going to apologize about sharing this computer with a troubled home schooler, or having the back of my house tore up for an addition... To have time to sweet talk you, I have to take it from something else... So I make some typos... Actually, I make a lot of them, and I am not alone... I think I am doing great...My brother once slammed my hand with a six pound sledge as I held a pin on the end of a pin I was trying to back out, and it bounced right off; and that isn't a fraction... I should be crippled... Actually, though I miss a few keys, and some I touch don't make a mark; I think I am doing great... If you don't understand what I am saying, or if you are confused, just ask me what I mean...It is how people communicate...
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2010 09:37 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Nonsense. Things were pretty much the same throughout the history of the country.
what was being discussed was the esteem of the position, the best and the brightest wanting to be in politics. THis was never the same after Watergate, partly because of "gottcha" journalism which was driven by a public that was practically drooling at the mouth at the prospect of catching a politician in some misdeed and the dream of young journalists to be the next Bernstein or Woodward. By time that I was at university (early eighties) it was very clear that the best and the brightest did not seriously consider public service as a career. It was about on par with teaching, that which you did only if you did not have better prospects.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2010 09:44 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Something is going to burst.
in a sense they already have.....the great recession was caused by the financial system blowing up, as no one was willing to trust that the other guy had both the ability and the willingness to honor a deal, so the system froze up. If it is found that the secularization of mortgages was not done legally because the paperwork was never legal, and all of those deals are not transparent because the legal system is going to have to unwind them which will take years, then we will be in another round of nobody being able to trust the other guy because nobody will know how the balance sheets are going to turn out. As it is because the banks failed to do their jobs correctly a lot of property is in limbo, property that needs to get foreclosed and sold so that we can finally turn the corner on the real estate deflation.

Obama's number one job was to get a new financial system in place, something that people could believe in. He did not hardly even try.

Obama's second job was to protect the well being of Americans during this transition by supplying stop gap jobs to the most in danger families. He spent a lot of money on programs that he claimed were about this job, but in reality he barely tried.

And today Obama runs around proclaiming that he has a communication problem with the american people. Bull ****....he has a priorities problem, a values problem, a competence problem.

No one can take more out of a society than labor produces or nature produces on it... When little is produced domestically, and wages are driven into the dirt, and absolutely nothing happens without loans taken, and interest paid, then what profit there is, and finance accounts for eighty percent of it, takes away from the purchacing power of the market until nothing is bought except on credit until all the wealth available is sucked out of the society...Pumping a little money back into the hands of consumers hoping to get this country moving again is a lost cause... The farm has been sold, and the old have reverse mortgages, and most people have no savings, and if they have work are living paycheck to paycheck... A piddling little bit given to consumers is not going to reverse years of excess profits which have empoverished this people...And loading it on the backs of our children only scares the hell out of people who know the piper must some day be paid...The only thing that will work will not be done... Property and wealth will not be taxed, and only be returning wealth to the common wealth, running government on a pay as you go basis will work... Consider, that people who act as though they cannot pay taxes are loaning the government money that will be loan for nothing to them to loan to us because we cannot survive without credit...The whole situation is impossible...
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2010 09:48 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

If the government were to stop this stuff, then the right would be whooping and hollering even more than they do now. That the government does not stop this crap from being produced might be a sign that it is a wholly owned subsidiary of Big Pharma.

Agreed, and often government gives them the money or does not tax profits against R and D, but then it allows those bastards to charge us far more for drugs than the others abroad pay for the same drug... What are we??? Are we guinea pigs, or pigeons??? No one between government and drug companies is treating us as human beings...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2010 09:54 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Nonsense. Things were pretty much the same throughout the history of the country. They got worse whenever political forces left members of Congress in office for decades at a time. The"solid south" of decades ago expanded its political power by electing only Democrats and leaving them in office for decades - thus they ended up controlling a disproportionate number of key committees in both House and Senate. This was how they resisted civil rights legislation for so long. Later both Democrats and Republicans became adept at misusing powers under the voting rights act to gerrymander safe districts for themselves, whenever they were in control of the House or state legislatures. Becauser they held majorities longer and in more states, the Democrats were far more successful in this corruption, but that wasn't because the Republicans weren't trying.
The whole South, and its representatives were distinct from the rest of the country in always voting against what it hated, and never voting for anything good without a better reason...Such people will always have more leverage than they deserve...
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2010 09:59 pm
@Fido,
Quote:
When little is produced domestically, and wages are driven into the dirt, and absolutely nothing happens without loans taken, and interest paid, then what profit there is, and finance accounts for eighty percent of it, takes away from the purchacing power of the market until nothing is bought except on credit until all the wealth available is sucked out of the society
that is not what was said in the talking points...the claim was that we would make our money on the stock market and in other investments. We would have the Koreans/Chinese et all make low tech stuff for 1/3 the cost of what we could at home so that we could be lots of low priced crap, we would lead the world in high tech/high wage jobs and the rest of the schmucks would be investors on the side to make up for the low wage of service jobs. The idea that stocks would not perpetually increase in value far above the inflation rate, or that foriegners could do high tech too never seemed to cross any ones mind. So now we have a stock market that individuals distrust so much that they are rapidly taking all their money out of it, a high tech industry that is getting killed by those who do it better (the Germans, Indians, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, and, and,and) and the manufactuing jobs are long gone.

That was one hell of a plan.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Oct, 2010 10:09 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
When little is produced domestically, and wages are driven into the dirt, and absolutely nothing happens without loans taken, and interest paid, then what profit there is, and finance accounts for eighty percent of it, takes away from the purchacing power of the market until nothing is bought except on credit until all the wealth available is sucked out of the society
that is not what was said in the talking points...the claim was that we would make our money on the stock market and in other investments. We would have the Koreans/Chinese et all make low tech stuff for 1/3 the cost of what we could at home so that we could be lots of low priced crap, we would lead the world in high tech/high wage jobs and the rest of the schmucks would be investors on the side to make up for the low wage of service jobs. The idea that stocks would not perpetually increase in value far above the inflation rate, or that foriegners could do high tech too never seemed to cross any ones mind. So now we have a stock market that individuals distrust so much that they are rapidly taking all their money out of it, a high tech industry that is getting killed by those who do it better (the Germans, Indians, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, and, and,and) and the manufactuing jobs are long gone.

That was one hell of a plan.

Not a plan... Free enterprise is not an economic system... It is economic anarchy... It rejects all government, and does as it wants in a hndred directions at once... No body thought it out... It is presumed that good will come out of it, so people sit back and wait while they are striped of the basics of a decent life, and wonder where their happiness and security went... Who did they think paid the interest that they were paid... They paid more than they ever received, and now the glass is not half full, but all empty, and still they believe... What choice have they, because if they do not believe they must take matters into their own hands, and be responsible for their own behavior...
High Seas
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 03:16 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

.. the Democrats were far more successful in this corruption

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/10/15/arts/15GERRY/15GERRY-popup.jpg
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 04:30 am
@Fido,
Fido wrote:

dyslexia wrote:

fido, you're an idiot.

So rare a complement from you... Thank you... I trust I am not an idiot in the classic sense... You do suggest a contemporary meaning, n'est pas???

Fido's writing style is fascinating - almost indistinguishable from PlainOldMe's. Except for the extra dots...
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 04:38 am
@Fido,
Fido wrote:

Not a plan... Free enterprise is not an economic system... It is economic anarchy... No body thought it out...

Many people have in fact thought it out - not all of them economists. They all seem to be in agreement regardless of their politics.
http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2010/10/how-much-does-the-market-organization-of-economic-life-matter.html
dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 04:52 am
@High Seas,
I make it a point to disagree with Helen so when I agree with her I find it to be traumatic..the truth is I sometimes do agree.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 05:01 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Later both Democrats and Republicans became adept at misusing powers under the voting rights act to gerrymander safe districts for themselves,


Later? Gerrymandering has a long history.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 05:12 am
@hawkeye10,
Sorry, but, your use of Watergate as a marker is just plain wrong. Throughout history, the two images of politician -- public servant and huckster -- were side by side.

So, you were only at university in the 80s? From some of your writings, I would have thought you twenty years older. However, consider what was happening in the early 80s. It was the beginning of the "greed is good" era.

Business schools were established around the beginning of the 20th C. During the 1960s, a business major was declasse, something a person reverted to either because they had flunked out of other majors or because they had completed work in engineering or a science then looked into their employment potential only to see it was low to medium. Usually, the former and not the latter was the case, although, toward the end of the 60s, there were women who prepared themselves well for business school where their intent was to "beat the boys."

Now, so many parents are pushing their kids toward business that some schools are limiting the numbers of would-be business majors accepted.

Around that time, the more pure end (Peace Corps and the various domestic service programs) of public service began to suffer.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 05:16 am
@High Seas,
Almost indistinguishable from mine? I have always imagined you as an overweight Margaret Thatcher.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 05:17 am
@dyslexia,
It's amazing that High Seas actually contributed three posts without name dropping.
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 07:14 am
@dyslexia,
Watching the slow descent of a fellow poster from incoherence into insanity can't be pleasant for anybody - we are agreed on that much.

So this question is addressed to you: do you think that reality checks help arrest, or even reverse, that horrible downward progression? Or does intervention necessarily involve cruelty, in which case it may be better to leave them alone and hope they will eventually improve on their own?
 

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