GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2010 05:52 pm
@dagmaraka,
Maybe he sees it as a passive agressive weapon.

Look at how happy I am! You can't affect me! Neener neener!

in which case not sure that would be forgiveness.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Sep, 2010 07:50 pm
@dagmaraka,
dagmaraka wrote:
No, it is not a weapon, for it happens within one person.
The other does not need to even know about it and often does
not know about it. If he or she is told about it, that is a separate act,
coming after forgiveness; it is not a part of the act of forgiveness.
I agree that forgiveness and NOTICE thereof r 2 different concepts.





David
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 07:01 am
@GoshisDead,
Right, i don't think that would be forgiveness, because if you feel the urge for "neener neener", you probably haven't forgiven yet.
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 10:14 am
@dagmaraka,
"they" say that the best revenge is to be happy.

I feel that two concepts have become conflated in the recent decades. The ideal of forgiveness, and the ideal of healed psychological trauma. healing trauma requires to internally get over the pain that the trauma caused in a meaningful way to one's self. It does not necessarily require to get over resentment towards the offender. Forgiveness does not necessarily require one to get over the trauma caused by the offender but does require one to release resentment towards the offender. People (in western countries at least) have two cultural influences colliding; popular religion (not trying to start a religious thread) and popular psychology. Many people not being well versed in either have conflated the two approaches to healing psychological/spiritual trauma. So it is not suprising to see post of one person saying that forgiveness can be revenge because it may be to that person that forgivness is the pop-psychological definition. it is also not surprising to have the two concepts of spirit and psyche conflated, or rather ina lot of cases, spirit ejected and psyche assuming both roles.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 10:22 am
@dagmaraka,
dagmaraka wrote:
David, that seems more like a revenge than forgiveness from what you describe, no?
Bear in mind, Dag, that I was innocently
and passive-aggressively executing the policy
of the Board of Directors, the owner of the Treasure.

I told Marlene, on the fone, to petition the Board of Directors
to get her $6 back for her personal fone call; that did not happen.





David
0 Replies
 
Arjuna
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 10:32 am
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead wrote:

It does not necessarily require to get over resentment towards the offender. Forgiveness does not necessarily require one to get over the trauma caused by the offender but does require one to release resentment towards the offender.
And it's not necessarily something one actively does. It can just come upon one and forgiveness is the only name you know for it. It can accompany realizing that the offender is human.

Forgiving yourself is another thing. Maybe that's more like partaking of forgiveness.

But then, they can be wrapped up together.

"Forgiveness isn't something that happens once. It's a path you walk putting into practice the lessons you've learned. The gate on the path of forgiveness is the asking of this question: how have I sinned?"



0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 11:29 am
@GoshisDead,
but 'they' would not need to even speak of revenge were they truly happy, no? somehow, in my mind, happiness and revenge don't go together. neither do forgiveness and revenge - i agree that forgiveness does not mean overcoming resentment necessarily, but it does mean parting with ideas of retributive action....that is in itself part of forgiveness. but yeah, just musing.
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Sep, 2010 11:55 am
@dagmaraka,
indeed
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Sep, 2010 10:47 pm
Trailer of the movie As We Forgive about post-genocide healing in Rwanda

http://www.asweforgivemovie.com/trailer.htm

you can download the entire movie there as well, i believe.
0 Replies
 
Daniel Ndogo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Dec, 2015 10:18 pm
Forgiving happens at a personal level. Forgiving is liberation of the forgiver not for the given. You forgive so that you can move on with your life. The opposite of not forgiving is mental enslavement where the hurt, the pain, the injustices have a grip on you and therefore you cannot let go because you have come to own what ever you feel is the injustice or the pain. Community cannot forge, individuals forgive.
0 Replies
 
GlastonburyFestival
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2016 01:20 pm
@FreeDuck,
I look at forgiveness in the same light as you - while it benefits the forgiven, primarily it is for the forgiver. To liberate yourself.

Not sure how forgiveness is applied at a community level either, except that maybe a community could offer it's forgiveness to an offender?
0 Replies
 
 

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