Reply Sat 9 Nov, 2019 01:13 pm
Second-chances are deep in the Christian heart, but how to prevent kindness being taken for weakness?

Terrorism is a form of guerilla warfare where individuals seek to gain access to military targets by means of civilian infrastructure, transportation, etc.

So when someone who previously supported terrorism claims to be reformed and seeking a second-chance, there is no way to establish whether or not she will re-radicalize at some point in the future when she is in a more effective position to re-militarize.

And yet there is the possibility that at some point the people who are currently and/or historically radicalized into terrorism/support, will truly reform and seek nothing else within peaceful societies besides the basic liberties, political freedoms, etc. that presume respect for human life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

So, imo, there can come a day when terrorism and political strife are so far behind us that we have no reason to continue to suspect former terrorists may re-radicalize. However, in the current global political climate, it is simply naive to imagine that someone who asks for a second-chance can be completely trusted to never abuse leeway granted.

As such, I think it is important to support the basic well-being of prisoners of war, but not to end the war until time has healed all wounds, so to speak. We must realize that humans are capable of lying and cheating and manipulating in whatever ways they can get away with to pursue abusive and exploitative goals of war and otherwise, so creating peace in the aftermath of war requires not being too hasty to assume that re-radicalization can't quickly occur within any situation that appears to be peaceful.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-born-isis-bride-says-everyone-deserves-second-chance-n1075046
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coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Nov, 2019 10:42 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
Terrorism is a form of guerilla warfare where individuals seek to gain access to military targets by means of civilian infrastructure, transportation, etc.

Terrorism is for political change. Change or the terror continues. Remember there is a goal and terrifying and intimidating people is a big part of it. This woman cannot be trusted. Leave where she is or let her move into to CEO of Comcast house.
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hightor
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Nov, 2019 06:26 am
@livinglava,
Let her enjoy her second chance in the refugee center where she is. Apparently her only argument is a dubious theological one.
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Nov, 2019 11:19 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Let her enjoy her second chance in the refugee center where she is. Apparently her only argument is a dubious theological one.

I think it is a legitimate argument, but not one that is immune from someone hijacking it for dubious purposes.

Generally, the principle of divine unconditional forgiveness in Christianity is supposed to liberate people from the hopelessness of ever transcending sin; but obviously apostasy makes it possible for non-believers to refer to that principle as a tactic for gaining power over Christians in order to attack and/or subjugate them.

So the challenge is to figure out a way to distinguish between those who are truly born again of spirit and those who pretend to be in order to manipulate Christians and get away with whatever they're trying to get away with.

Since it's not ultimately possible to distinguish, I think the best thing is to treat 'former' terrorists as prisoners of war, treat them humanely, and wait for a time when time has revealed that the spirit of war has subsided. That could take a very long time, unfortunately; as many people can go on hating and fighting against democracy and liberty for generation after generation.
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Nov, 2019 03:18 pm
@livinglava,
You already know how I feel, but here is some news on her.
Quote:
Judge rules ‘ISIS bride’ Hoda Muthana is not a US citizen

https://nypost.com/2019/11/14/judge-rules-isis-bride-hoda-muthana-is-not-a-us-citizen/
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Nov, 2019 05:30 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

You already know how I feel, but here is some news on her.
Quote:
Judge rules ‘ISIS bride’ Hoda Muthana is not a US citizen

https://nypost.com/2019/11/14/judge-rules-isis-bride-hoda-muthana-is-not-a-us-citizen/

Not surprising. Now the question is how many decades of healing from terrorism will it take before families can be restored.
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Nov, 2019 06:11 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
Now the question is how many decades of healing from terrorism will it take before families can be restored.

I got news for you, Islamic terrorism will never stop until Islam itself is gone.
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Nov, 2019 06:27 am
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

Quote:
Now the question is how many decades of healing from terrorism will it take before families can be restored.

I got news for you, Islamic terrorism will never stop until Islam itself is gone.

That's an ignorant thing to say based on simplistic assumptions about culture.

If Islam is what it claims it is, i.e. submission to God, then it is no different than Christianity or any other religion in terms of potential for peace and conflict.

Think about it: it comes down to the essence of morality as transcendence of sin. As long as we have a moral compass and thus seek to transcend sin, there is the potential for conflict with others who fail to pursue/achieve moral virtue.

You can either enforce a totally relativistic moral religion in which no one is allowed to deem anything a sin and any and every moral choice must be accepted, including murder, rape, etc. OR you have to accept that morality results in various forms of violence and conflict against sin, whether it is the sin of murder, rape, stealing, or whatever.

I'm not sure how much terrorism is caused by moral judgment verses how much is just people trying to manipulate others for money and power, but if there are truly terrorists whose goal is jihad against sin, we should be thinking about what sins they consider grave enough to die fighting for.

We also have sins that we are willing to die to combat, after all, do we not?
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Nov, 2019 12:34 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:

That's an ignorant thing to say based on simplistic assumptions about culture.

It is hardly ignorant when the holy literature which spawned the culture says just what I told you.
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 09:29 am
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

Quote:

That's an ignorant thing to say based on simplistic assumptions about culture.

It is hardly ignorant when the holy literature which spawned the culture says just what I told you.

It wouldn't matter if the person converted to Christianity from Islam, renounced religion altogether, etc. simply because people lie.

No religion can guarantee that a person won't lie and defy the morality prescribed in their religious texts, and nothing about the books people read make them guilty of any crime.

You can have people reading the Bible, the Communist Manifesto, the Quran, and/or Mein Kampf and some of them may be killing people and committing other crimes while others just peacefully study the texts/ideologies, discuss them with others, and exercise political will through free speech and other democratic means that respect liberty.

So condemning people for their religious identity and/or whatever else they study and talk about is ignorant and short-sighted. Yes, you have to maintain vigilance and not trust people to the point of sacrificing security, but you also shouldn't assume guilt where it's not proven.
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 10:25 am
@livinglava,
Quote:
So condemning people for their religious identity

I am condemning the religion. Islam inspired her actions. I am not saying it happens to every Muslim, but it is true in her case. And because Islam says she can lie we have no reason to believe her because of her actions.
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 10:53 am
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

Quote:
So condemning people for their religious identity

I am condemning the religion. Islam inspired her actions. I am not saying it happens to every Muslim, but it is true in her case. And because Islam says she can lie we have no reason to believe her because of her actions.

Would it be any different if she claimed to be Christian and that the Bible inspired her actions? Or if she was secular and some secular motive was behind them?

Do you think being Christian or secular or any other religion could prevent her or anyone else from lying?
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 12:21 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
Do you think being Christian or secular or any other religion could prevent her or anyone else from lying?

The Christian doctrine frowns on lying. The Islamic doctrine endorses it if it advances Islam. Do Christians lie, of course they do. Does it kill anyone? No.
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2019 12:30 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

Quote:
Do you think being Christian or secular or any other religion could prevent her or anyone else from lying?

The Christian doctrine frowns on lying. The Islamic doctrine endorses it if it advances Islam. Do Christians lie, of course they do. Does it kill anyone? No.

There are Christians who lie and kill. Christians are sinners, like everyone else.

You, like many other people, just don't seem to understand that religion is not a determinant force in human behavior.

Humans have the free will to make good choices and bad choices. Religion holds the potential to help them make better choices, but doesn't force them to do so.
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