Is this abnormal for 4th grade homework?

The math problem sounds like the sort of problems we did as students, but, perhaps, not in 4th grade, but definitely in 5th.

The first thing you have to do is convert the measurements into a common unit, as littlek did. 12 x 15 is the same as 144 x 180. The area to be covered is then 300 sq ft or 9,600 sq in.

A box of tiles covers 972 sq in. You need both colors. Two boxes cover 1944 sq in.

I would guess that you divide 9600 by either 972 or 1944. You would need 8 boxes of each. Anna better hold a few bake sales and/or carwashes
in addition to baby-sitting.

I wanted to say something about worksheets. I substitute taught on and off throughout my life, beginning my sophomore year of college. I do not remember any worksheets being used during my 1960s subbing experience but they were over used during the last time I subbed, beginning in 2002.

Most of the preprinted work sheets are inane. Generally, they have nothing to do with the matter at hand and some of the questions are ambiguous. I have used two textbooks at my current job and the exercises are just as ambiguous. In fact, most exercises are useless.

The worst aspect of work sheets and questions that follow reading assignments is that kids then skip the reading, turn to the questions, then pour back through the text, looking for answers. This is not learning.

Your's is the 4th answer we've received on here -- all 4 answers are different.

You really think this is 4th or 5th grade homework when 5 adults, two of them teachers, can't agree on an answer?

I'm with Eva -- this question is out of line.

I've also been very happy with the public schools where I live. Good (sometimes great) teachers, good facilities, good opportunities for the children. I've had several friends and neighbors choose the private school option and I just have to shake my head and wonder why you would spend that kind of money when I've had such good experiences in the public system.

I cannot claim to have looked into the research into the value of homework, but there are two areas where I think homework is beneficial. The first is reading (either self reading or being read to) and the other is math. In both cases, proficiency is only developed through experience and lack of proficiency can become a significant hindrance later in life. I remember coming home with fifty math problems to solve every other day, columns of numbers to add or multiply. Sure, that was tedious, but if you are stumbling over adding and multiplying when you get to pre-Algebra, you are going to have real problems. On the other side, I don't remember my oldest doing that and he's tutoring pre-Calc on the side to make money this semester, so maybe all those drills were overkill.

How did Mo do with the problem?

I ask because sometimes sozlet brings home things that are incomprehensible to us (and my husband has a degree in math) and then it turns out that it is to practice some specific shortcut or method they'd learned in class. SHE got it even if we didn't (or we did after she explained).

Not sure if this is along those lines of course, might just be a sloppy problem. (That was one of my steepest learning curves as a student teacher, creating problems that were challenging but clear. I sucked at the beginning.)

I got 673.75 but I did it totally differently and it took me about five minutes without a calculator.

I'm a visual learner so I thought of it as a grid. I multiplied 12x12 to get the total number of inches across - then divided by nine - I knew I needed sixteen tiles across.
Then I multiplied 12x15 to get the total number of inches down and divided by nine and knew I'd have twenty rows of sixteen tiles- multiplied that and knew I'd need 320 tiles in all.
So I divided that by 12 to see how many boxes I'd need and came up with 26 remainder 8. That meant I'd have to buy 27 boxes at 24.95 so I multiplied 27 by 25 and then subtracted $1.35 from $675.oo ( because that was easier and faster than multiplying 24.95 x27) and came up with the final answer of $673.65.

I do think this is difficult for a fourth grader. Has he already learned how to multiply and subtract decimals because that's a skill this problem calls for.
I don't think we were working with decimals in fourth grade - maybe fractions - but not decimals yet.

But I haven't taught in elementary school since 1986, so maybe they're doing harder stuff earlier now.

I think that problem is too complicated for elementary math. The individual concepts are ok, but putting a series of them together and then not having the problem result in an integer solution adds complexity without seeming to add value.

I agree with sozobe here! The kids learn about specific math problems day-in and
day-out and they're capable of solving certain problems in a manner where we
adults are struggling - mostly because we don't face these things every day. When was the last time you tried to figure out the volume of a cylinder?

I struggled to no end with my daughter's math problems - especially subtractions and divisions - in Europe we're taught a completely different method that's actually a lot faster. I tried to teach her that but in the end she just got more
confused and I left it alone.

Point is, kids have math every day and they are more used to solving these sort
of problems than most of us do .

A note to public schools: we opted for a private school in Jane's elementary years and I am happy I did. Jane attended middle school and is now in high school in public schools and I couldn't be more happy. We live in a great school district and teachers and parents alike are very involved in the kids education.

OK, here's the breakdown. Anna will need a total of 320 tiles (160 of white, 160 of black) to cover the floor. If 27 boxes (324 tiles) are bought, she will have 14 boxes of one color (168 tiles) but only 13 boxes of the other color (156 tiles.) She will have 4 tiles of the first color left over. BUT...if she wants 160 tiles of each color, she will have to buy 14 boxes of each color. That equals 28 boxes, with 8 tiles of each color left over.

I once wrote a note on K's 4th grade math homework that she had my permission to skip learning the Japanese method of doing long division.

(That makes sense!)

I agree with engineer that a nice round $675 or something at the end of it all would have been better, but as aidan lays it out (I admit I skipped over the actual problem! just saw the varied responses and figured it was complicated) that seems to actually be a doable problem, a lot of steps but as engineer says the component problems are at an appropriate level.

Sozlet definitely is doing decimals, well she was at the end of third grade, this year has been more brush-up/ review thus far.

You're on to something, Jane. For many adults, math is limited to figuring out a bank account balance or doubling a recipe.

The kids do these things daily. Sometimes, they do the same problem set several times in one day, but in different forms to acknowledge different learning styles and to reinforce the method of solving the problem.

That's interesting, CJ. We did just the opposite. Our public schools were great in the elementary grades, but terrible in middle and high school. SonofEva is fortunate that he's an only child, or we wouldn't have been able to afford the option of private school for middle and high school.

Here, the public schools (middle & high) do a good job for low-to-average performing students as well as the top 5% who qualify for magnet schools. However, those who are better than average (but not exceptional) are not served well at all. Those are typically the students who leave for private schools.

That's interesting because I do not have a calculator or access to the calculator in my computer since I switched the mouse. I did the problem long hand and still have the paper at my side where I wrote 15 x 12 = 180!

I then multiplied 15 x 12 to get the number of inches on one side of the room, as I already knew that 12 ft = 144 inches from the idea of a gross. Duh! Copied the wrong figures.

But 144 x 300 = 43,200 sq in. Right?

That sounds like Arlington, MA where the elementary schools outstrip the upper schools and parents do opt for private school.

Eva, my daughter talked on FB to some of her friends who are in private school
now - class sizes are 40+ and the curriculum is not as advanced (at least in math).
I have learned (from my own experience) that private schools here in CA are
quite greedy, they push attendance to the max. I have a small private French-American school in my neighborhood, they have limited space, but this year they doubled attendance. I only can imagine what their class size might be.

Our public high school has many AP classes and thrives to advance students.
I do realize though, that we're in a fortunate place and school..... I would have
opted for private school if we did not have such an outstanding public one.

You're right! If they do have to alternate it'd be 28 boxes so it'd be $698.60.

But if she were my daughter, I'd tell her to buy 27 boxes, alternate them everywhere but under her bed or in the closet and then just make her own design with what she has left in those spots nobody can see.

Actually if she were my daughter, I'd ask her why the heck she wants tile in her bedroom. It's dang COLD in the morning.

Schools have to teach to all the children, and they have to cater to all the various talents of comprehension. Even now, more than fifty years after i learned them, i have to stop and think about the multiplication tables. The only "math" i ever did well with was geometry, and that was because i could draw it--i could see and hold it in my hand.

I have a first cousin who was a math whizz from the time he was a small boy. When he was six years old, he was setting an alarm clock at night, and getting up before his parents did, and then feeding his sister and brother their breakfast before school. In school, he found math boring, so they started to put him in higher classes for the math, to the point at which he was taking 8th grade math and algebra by the time he was in the fourth grade.

He now has a PhD in math. But, of course, most of his classmates from the 1960s didn't have that natural talent--so those drills were probably not overkill for them, but necessary repetition. I know they were for me.