22
   

Is this abnormal for 4th grade homework?

 
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 08:39 am
@dadpad,
You made me think of this graphic I saw the other day (look closely at the red bit):

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l8c7llmBEf1qz9bwro1_500.jpg

I'm beginning to accept it as normal but I still think that much homework is bullshit.
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 08:43 am
@boomerang,
That graphic is very clever.

I wish you were my mom.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 09:03 am
So have you seen the NYT Sunday Magazine yet? It's about a lot of this stuff. I'm only about halfway through it so far.

One of the things that I thought was interesting and applied is the correlation between fitness and learning ability. Stuff about brain parts important to learning actually growing with aerobic exercise.

Link to the mag:

http://www.nytimes.com/pages/magazine/index.html
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 10:44 am
There's an interesting article in today's San Jose Merc about studying. The classical belief that studying in the same spot and concentrating on one subject improves studying are all wrong. They found through experiments that studying at different locations and studying more than one subject improved the results of study. All that psycho babble about right side and left side of brain have not proved anything of value to studying.
0 Replies
 
Swimpy
 
  2  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 11:35 am
@boomerang,
Be careful, boomer. Mo can read your mind, you know. Kids are eerie that way. I was a teacher once, so I may show my bias. I was also a substitute teacher. I do not know of any child that was permanently harmed by homework. Sure, it sucks. Teachers know that. I'm not going to argue that it is either effective or not effective. It is assigned. The kids are required to do it. It is the parents' job to make sure that the kids do it.

I also believe that a parent's priorities set the tone for how a child will do in school. I beleive that extra curricular activities all take a back seat the academics. Football should be the first sacrifice to Mo's education. I know he loves it but that much time spent on sports is out of balance. He is learning that football is more important than reading. Is that the lesson you want him to learn?
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 11:42 am
@Swimpy,
Quote:
He is learning that football is more important than reading


How is he learning that?

He's does the reading. He doesn't get to play football if he hasn't done the reading. I said back at the beginning of this thread that getting to play football is what motivates him to get the homework done quickly and with little fuss.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 11:59 am
@cicerone imposter,
I read to my kids until they were 12. At that time, each child asked to discontinue the reading, as they could read faster on their own.

Many schools have what they call sustained silent reading: a half-hour session in which the kids sit at their desks and read whatever book is current to them. This is all outside reading and not from assigned texts.

I can't remember my fourth grade curriculum in detail but I do remember, as I turned from 8 - 9, thinking the nun who taught that class was crazy. I still remember what she looked like and she had a frightening gleam in her eye.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 01:19 pm
That's a good series of articles, soz, thanks so much for the link.

I don't think I've mentioned in this thread how much I don't even like football. I don't understand it one bit. I don't even get the attraction to it. I go to the games because it's important to Mo that I go to the games. I feel like a complete idiot because I have absolutely not even one foggy idea of what is going on.

But I do love to read. I read so much it drives Mo and Mr. B nuts.

Mo doesn't like to read but he loves loves loves to be read to (probably the NLD thing working here). Together we read a lot more than is required by school and it is probably much more complicated material than what the school assigns. I'll wager the Mo has a much better understanding of geography than his classmates.

I'm certainly not anti-learning. Heck, Mo spent his summer with a tutor. He'll start seeing her again soon.

I just thought I would say this in my defense since many people on here seem to think I'm teaching Mo that school doesn't matter. I tell Mo that I know a lot of adults who never read for pleasure but they do know how to read and it is important that a person be proficient in this skill.

I'm unrelenting in my opinion that an hour of homework a day for a 9 year old kid is way too much. The more I read about homework the more I start think that it's counter-productive.

Also, I think 10+ hours of physical activity a week should be normal.
Swimpy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 01:27 pm
@boomerang,
Well, you asked.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 01:33 pm
I asked:

Quote:
Does 1+ hours of homework a night seem like an absurd amount of homework for 4th grade?
Swimpy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 01:43 pm
@boomerang,
No.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 01:57 pm
@boomerang,
I can see where you're coming from with that opinion, but you asked and the majority here don't find an hour of homework part of which is independent reading excessive. What are you not telling us that would sway our opinion? I agree that physical activity outside of school is important, but asking for five hours for homework versus ten for organized sports seems fair. What are you arguing is the downside of a hour a day that would be better with 30 minutes or no homework at all?
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 02:48 pm
@engineer,
I do see that the majority disagree with me. That's fine. I posted the section in my defense because I had been warned several times by several people that I was teaching Mo that he didn't have to do his homework.

If it were up to me there would be 0 minutes of homework for elementary school kids outside of an occassional special project.

I continue to argue the point because the research on homework is really on my side.

For example:

Quote:
.....Homework continues to be assigned – in ever greater quantities – despite the absence of evidence that it’s necessary or even helpful in most cases.

The dimensions of that last disparity weren’t clear to me until I began sifting through the research for a new book. To begin with, I discovered that decades of investigation have failed to turn up any evidence that homework is beneficial for students in elementary school. Even if you regard standardized test results as a useful measure, homework (some versus none, or more versus less) isn’t even correlated with higher scores at these ages. The only effect that does show up is more negative attitudes on the part of students who get more assignments.

In high school, some studies do find a correlation between homework and test scores (or grades), but it’s usually fairly small and it has a tendency to disappear when more sophisticated statistical controls are applied. Moreover, there’s no evidence that higher achievement is due to the homework even when an association does appear. It isn’t hard to think of other explanations for why successful students might be in classrooms where more homework is assigned – or why they might spend more time on it than their peers do.

The results of national and international exams raise further doubts. One of many examples is an analysis of 1994 and 1999 Trends in Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) data from 50 countries. Researchers David Baker and Gerald Letendre were scarcely able to conceal their surprise when they published their results last year: “Not only did we fail to find any positive relationships,” but “the overall correlations between national average student achievement and national averages in [amount of homework assigned] are all negative.”

Finally, there isn’t a shred of evidence to support the widely accepted assumption that homework yields nonacademic benefits for students of any age. The idea that homework teaches good work habits or develops positive character traits (such as self-discipline and independence) could be described as an urban myth except for the fact that it’s taken seriously in suburban and rural areas, too.


<snip>

Quote:
So why do we do something where the cons (stress, frustration, family conflict, loss of time for other activities, a possible diminution of interest in learning) so clearly outweigh the pros? Possible reasons include a lack of respect for research, a lack of respect for children (implicit in a determination to keep them busy after school), a reluctance to question existing practices, and the top-down pressures to teach more stuff faster in order to pump up test scores so we can chant “We’re number one!”

All these explanations are plausible, but I think there’s also something else responsible for our continuing to feed children this latter-day cod-liver oil. Because many of us believe it’s just common sense that homework would provide academic benefits, we tend to shrug off the failure to find any such benefits. In turn, our belief that homework ought to help is based on some fundamental misunderstandings about learning


http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/edweek/homework.htm

Izzie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 03:28 pm
@boomerang,
Gosh...

our education in primary schools is a lot different to the USA

http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/management/atoz/h/homework/

Recommended time for homework
Every school will consider how much time is appropriate for pupils at each stage, according to their aptitude. The Government's recommended time allocation, based on current good practice, is set out in Homework: Guidelines for Primary Schools and Secondary Schools, as follows;


Years 1 and 2
1 hour per week
Reading, spelling, other literacy work and number work

Years 3 and 4 (8-9yrs)
1.5 hours per week
Literacy and numeracy as for years 1 and 2, with occasional assignments in other subjects

Years 5 and 6 (9-11yrs)
30 minutes per day
Regular weekly schedule with continued emphasis on literacy and numeracy, but also ranging widely over the curriculum


Our kids at my primary school would rarely be given 30 minutes a day for years 4 and 5 (7-9 yrs old) and the year 6's (10-11yrs old) would get probably 3 lots of 30 minutes or so and some to do over the weekend (occasionally a special project) - a little more as they start coming up to their SATs which are midway through the summer term before they end their primary education.

Obviously spellings are done regularly. We have target setting each term and the kids have a target setting card which they follow - it is based on the individual child's needs so every child has different targets depending on their capabilities and SEN status.

Not all our parents have computers and not all our parents are literate - this is also taken into account with individual children.

Of course, there are only 44 children in my school ranging from 4-11 years - I would imagine that larger schools and bigger classes do things a little differently.

Our school hours are:

Morning session : 8.45 a.m. - 12 noon
Afternoon session : 12.55 p.m. - 3.00 p.m.
Morning Playtime : 10.00 a.m. - 10.15 a.m.
(and a five minute breatherat 11.00 a.m.)
Total weekly teaching sessions - 23 ¾ hours

Saying that - S-boy is 13 - he's at a private school so his school hours are completely different, longer days, longer holidays - he rarely comes home with an hours work a day, very rarely - but I know this will be changing as he is now starting in Year 9. He also does some of his homework on the school bus and when he boards, they have a very disciplined prep - so he may save some of his homework for those nights also. He also does a lot of sport at school - every day for an hour after school (activities), plus PE lessons and the normal running around in playtime/lunchtime and after prep for and hour or so. (How they have the energy, who knows!) He's pretty exhausted by the time he gets home from school (leaves in the morning at 7.30am and is home around 5.50pm). Has rugby matches on Saturday mornings.

When children start secondary school they are given huge amounts of homework when they first start, in comparison to primary schools, so we try to increase the homework in Year 6 so that it doesn't come too much of a shock to them when they start at secondary school. It still does come as shock tho.





littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 04:01 pm
Boomer, research definitely is on your side. Given the lives that kids lead currently, they get a little too much homework - in general. Some kids love homework, most kids get it done within the time expectations, many kids can't get it done within the time expectations. The later category either spends more time on it or has the amount modified.

In our school district, most teachers accept being read to and listening to books on tape as independent reading time. This would be especially true if as you read to him, you asked reflective questions to gauge his understanding.
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 04:01 pm
@Izzie,
You get 55 minutes for lunch!?!
Izzie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 04:09 pm
@littlek,
Yep, we have limited space and all kids sit at one seating in one of the classrooms/hall - we have all food cooked on the premises so it take at least 30 mins for them to sit and eat - all tables have mixed year groups so the big kids help the little kids acting as table monitors and teaching the kids to eat nicely. In the summer the kids are also allowed to eat outside at times - we give them baskets and they munch away in the playground Very Happy Then they get about 30 mins play. We have some hobby clubs at lunchtime too - art / football / netball coaching, library always has some monitors on so if kids wish to read at lunch break they can. The assembly from 12.55 - 1.15 - except for Fridays where they do award presentations and we have guests come into talk from all over plus the vicar once every couple weeks.

We also have a small swimming pool, so when the weather is good in the summer, lessons are changed around - kids get to swim each day no matter what when the pool is at it's warmest - we live in the country, lots of rivers - so teaching them to swim and having the luxury of a small pool to use at the back of my office is just as important as the academic side Wink
0 Replies
 
Swimpy
 
  2  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 04:22 pm
@Izzie,
Iz, I don't think that is so different. I think the 30 minutes of reading is on top of the homework, but I don't see that as homework.

I think part of the issue is the quality of the homework assigned. Is it designed to help the child internalize the lessons from school and build on the concepts that the teacher introduced in the classroom. You have to remember that the teacher has only a short time for each subject in a day.

Here is an article that presents the other side of the homework issue: http://www.edutopia.org/defense-homework
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 04:32 pm
@Swimpy,
Swimpy makes a great point. Homework needs to reflect what has been taught earlier in the day at school. They're supposed to be practicing what they learned so that they can master the material. It's easy to understand a lesson in school, but often when you go home and try it on your own you realize where your understanding is still glitchy.
0 Replies
 
Izzie
 
  2  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 04:35 pm
@Swimpy,
Yep, our kids are sent home with library books and a book record for their parents to fill in or make any comments. It's not a "compulsory" per se... we have many farmers kids and as I say, a few parents who aren't literate - so it makes it a little harder for those children, but that's picked up in school in a very casual way without trying to make them feel bad if their parents won't/aren't able to help them due to probs at home or other commitments. We do have some parents who... <ahem> pressurise their children horribly - we see the lack of confidence when they come to school and you just know that the folks are giving them a hard time - some parents are a right royal pain in the bahookie demanding that each child should be able to do exactly the same amount of work as another child - some seem to fail to recognise that their little kid is a unique sort and will learn at a different pace to Joe Bloggs next door. That's why our target setting cards are so important.

S-boy has a homework diary I have to sign at the end of the week - however, it is his responsibility to do the work and me to sign that he has done it, or why he/we weren't able to. If he doesn't do his work, he would then miss acitivies after the school day, so he's pretty motivated to get it done.

<mind you, it's getting harder and harder in science and so forth - a lot of his work is internet based but he's a bit of whizz on the laptop (if it works!) Wink

but yes, I take your point - reading may be additional or included but if we find a child struggling with their homework, a meeting with the parents would be held immediately to try and get some extra help or incentive to help/motivate the child. Some kids go straight out on the farm as soon as they get home... homework is not a priority to the parents in that their kids are expected to take over the family business.

<seriously> shock!



but yep, point taken Swimpy.
0 Replies
 
 

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