failures art
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Sep, 2010 07:24 pm
@Arjuna,
Arjuna wrote:
So I appreciate and deeply respect those who speak from conviction.

Sure. It's not difficult to respect a person of conviction. It doesn't mean their convictions are worth the same respect.

A
R
T
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Sep, 2010 09:32 pm
@Arjuna,
Arjuna wrote:

john2054 wrote:

how do we learn about God?
If it had ever been possible to see my own beliefs reflected in those around me, I wouldn't be so protective of them. The language I would put to them would be offensive to many and misunderstood by most of the rest.

To stand with others and know that inside we're all the same even though our outward forms are different... that's as close to religion as I've come.

So I appreciate and deeply respect those who speak from conviction.

And I appreciate the power of sociopaths to hurt me... I agree that we are essentially the same, in need at least... There is a great difference between admitting ones ignorance, and coming to terms with ones weakness which is our general attribute, and denying it; but those with conviction, especially based upon religous belief are in their certainty seeking the power of God to pump up their powerless lives... What the religious do is what they want... They are not more free, but only less accountable... They reject reality and live in illusion, and their conviction is all the justification they need for the Auto de fe de jour... And where is the jury of their peers who will ever find them guilty... Even when their guilt is obvious so is their insanity, and they all suffer from the same bug, but only differ in degree.. Those who join the government are often the same, having nothing of character to recomend them, they use the power of authority to make them whole...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Sep, 2010 09:39 pm
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

Arjuna wrote:
So I appreciate and deeply respect those who speak from conviction.

Sure. It's not difficult to respect a person of conviction. It doesn't mean their convictions are worth the same respect.

A
R
T

Go to the head of the class... In fact, conviction in an uncertain world is neurosis and worse... Why... Why bother with convictions??? Has not everyone on earth been both wrong and certain and proved wrong in spite of certainty... What sort of lesson does anyone need that all conviction is proof of nothing, and puts those who hold those convictions beyond the reach of reason...
john2054
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2010 11:18 am
@Fido,
I'd also like to add the point that I AM mentally ill. So stop digging at me for this, in case I read in the subtext there on a couple of points just made. Just because there are chemical imbalances in my brain which occasionally throws my emotions/ personality out of sinc doesn't stop me from trying to engage in 'clever' discussions with other interested souls here on the web, as well as at other places. There. But with regards to the train of thought being processed here, well it's all getting a little bit *too* 'clever' now for me even! What were we talking about again?
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2010 11:25 am
@john2054,
A diagnose notwithstanding, I think all who engage in philosophic activity have to be at least a littly crazy, simply because questioning the accepted truth is counterproductive for the purpose of that truth, and thus not encouraged beyond individual inquiry, which is bound to put you a little "outside" the social norm. I think that a philosopher has a moral responsibility to maintain an understanding of accepted truths to a degree where he can function by them socially, even though he is picking them apart in his philosophy. And that can sometimes be the prelude to a proper mindf**k.. Wink
john2054
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2010 01:26 pm
@Cyracuz,
Interesting Cyracus, then from that frame work should I understand that I am not the only one. Or is it closer to the truth to say that, like Christ, I have been castigated on account of my beliefs, and doomed to a lifetime of miserable existence between the needle and meal times? I dunno. Perhaps some of it is my own fault, like constantly wanted to come of meds, and then not doing very well for the brief times when I finally manage to. So now with a history of hospital admissions, my life is doomed right? Well at least I have been able to get married while running from this tornado. And that's something right?
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  2  
Reply Tue 28 Sep, 2010 01:27 pm
@john2054,
john2054 wrote:

I'd also like to add the point that I AM mentally ill. So stop digging at me for this, in case I read in the subtext there on a couple of points just made. Just because there are chemical imbalances in my brain which occasionally throws my emotions/ personality out of sinc doesn't stop me from trying to engage in 'clever' discussions with other interested souls here on the web, as well as at other places. There. But with regards to the train of thought being processed here, well it's all getting a little bit *too* 'clever' now for me even! What were we talking about again?

If you are crazy then join the crowd, and quite crying about it... I was an ironworker for 30 years, and there insanity was taken for granted and an asset... If I rag on you about something you can't help then blow it off for God's sake... I am a human being myself and not some son of a bich.
john2054
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2010 08:26 am
@Fido,
Hi Fido, I never called you a SOAB! Infact I am not crazy. It is only my Drs who seem to think this. But their diagnosese are wrong. I have been diagnosed with organic personality disorder, paranoid scitzaphrenia, psychosis and Scitzaffective disorder (which relates to me being unable to manage my emotions). But it's all B.S. if you ask me. And I'm glad that you were able to hold down a job for thirty years. Me the longest I had one was for a month. But to be honest with you being mentally ill seems to be quite a job enough for me!
Fido
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2010 09:58 am
@john2054,
I can imagine, from the diagnosis of my child that I too suffer from a borderline personality disorder, mild compared to you... It is because, as most people, I live in my emotions, and because my emotions often get the better of me that I try so hard to rationalize, be rational... In fact, in that effort I have found few people are rational, and most people are motivated by their emotions... I do not want to tell you that I did not often hurt from my mental issues which often hung between manic and depression... It is just that there is so much out there in the way of mental illness that people can be forgiven almost anything if they will do their jobs...But it cost me thousands, perhaps far over a hundred thousand in income and retirement... And I know some people are deeply offended if I call another insane or crazy... I have been around illness all of my life, and we presume of illness that it is some how deserved, and That is not true... I would rather make the worst comment about a condition beyond the control of the individual than the slightest comment on a condition that may be helped... The later implies a moral choice, and a defective one at that, while no one can help disease or dismemberment...
john2054
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Oct, 2010 11:58 am
@Fido,

Very interesting Fido. You write ariculately and also philosophically. I am sorry if I can't reply up to the same intellectual calibre but then I will try... My mental illness in fact seems to be closely related to when I lash out. For instance of the past four times I have been admitted for long times, three of which were instigated by me lashing out with a brick, and twice my fist. (The other time just saw me shouting at my dr and was enough to put me away for seven months then). So yeah I do think that I am an emotional person. But I am also a rational problem. My problem seems to be that there are times when I find myself in untenable situations, which I cannot escape without drastic measures. Say people take advantage of me because of my vulnerabilities, or whatever. But now I am caught in this trap, it is just a case of playing the game and running through the motions (again), until I get out. Thanks for listening.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Oct, 2010 12:53 pm
@john2054,
john2054 wrote:


Very interesting Fido. You write ariculately and also philosophically. I am sorry if I can't reply up to the same intellectual calibre but then I will try... My mental illness in fact seems to be closely related to when I lash out. For instance of the past four times I have been admitted for long times, three of which were instigated by me lashing out with a brick, and twice my fist. (The other time just saw me shouting at my dr and was enough to put me away for seven months then). So yeah I do think that I am an emotional person. But I am also a rational problem. My problem seems to be that there are times when I find myself in untenable situations, which I cannot escape without drastic measures. Say people take advantage of me because of my vulnerabilities, or whatever. But now I am caught in this trap, it is just a case of playing the game and running through the motions (again), until I get out. Thanks for listening.


Do you want me to spring you??? I like free birds even if they are looney birds... Of course; if I help you you can't be settling your issues with no more bricks... Violence and the threat of violence simply does not help... If drastic measures are called for, everyone should do them together...It is okay to think as you wish, but you cannot do all you might wish.... Really, the world does not care what you think, or feel... It does care what you do... And you more than most since your have proven yourself volatile... Take care, be nice, and stay on your meds...
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Oct, 2010 01:13 pm
@Fido,
He does seem to be a great thinker though he may have problems, But don't we all have problems?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Oct, 2010 01:24 pm
@john2054,
Hi John ! Very Happy

I really think your good rational capacity just give you one more valid reason to try your best to control your temper...even when you find yourself in situations that make it hard to cope with...keep your head above the water line !

Regards>FILIPE DE ALBUQUERQUE
0 Replies
 
john2054
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Oct, 2010 02:18 pm
@Fido,
Hi Fido Fil and Reasoning, thanks for your kind and measured contributions to this thread. People tell me that they think that I am clever (at least here in this hospital they do). Not so much at uni, where I was at the tail end of last year. There it's more like we were all clever (or at least trying to be). So here it is more a case of trying to keep my head above the water like you said. I do that by reading, and chatting on the net, and trying to curb my violence. For instance yesterday a bloke said that he got A*s at GCSE (including maths). Then he told me that a=1 b=2 c=3 etc. For Algerbra. Now anyone who's actually taken GCSE maths will know that they are hard work. And to get the top grade is super hard (I got that and for science as well btw, but I failed at a levels after I broke my neck and had a bad head injury in a rta after the exams). So anyway I called him a liar, he rose to this and i pushed him out of his seat in the setee next to me with me foot. Is that being violent? Not really. The ****** shouldn't have tried to Bullshit me!
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Oct, 2010 02:38 pm
@john2054,
Sorry to say that it seems to me that you were being emotionally violent. I hope that you may be able to see that emotions of this sort will only hinder you and infact could reck your life and others.

I wonder if it would be possible for you to react in a different way and still get the same satisfaction? Maybe you could think to yourself what a fool a person is being and think to yourself how lucky you are to be able to see his ignorance and not be like him.

I have no answers I am only trying to help.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Oct, 2010 02:43 pm
@reasoning logic,
Yeah, that seams to be a good suggestion...ignore is a way of strength.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2010 12:03 am
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

He does seem to be a great thinker though he may have problems, But don't we all have problems?

Speak for yourself... I have PROBLEMS.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2010 12:07 am
@john2054,
john2054 wrote:

Hi Fido Fil and Reasoning, thanks for your kind and measured contributions to this thread. People tell me that they think that I am clever (at least here in this hospital they do). Not so much at uni, where I was at the tail end of last year. There it's more like we were all clever (or at least trying to be). So here it is more a case of trying to keep my head above the water like you said. I do that by reading, and chatting on the net, and trying to curb my violence. For instance yesterday a bloke said that he got A*s at GCSE (including maths). Then he told me that a=1 b=2 c=3 etc. For Algerbra. Now anyone who's actually taken GCSE maths will know that they are hard work. And to get the top grade is super hard (I got that and for science as well btw, but I failed at a levels after I broke my neck and had a bad head injury in a rta after the exams). So anyway I called him a liar, he rose to this and i pushed him out of his seat in the setee next to me with me foot. Is that being violent? Not really. The ****** shouldn't have tried to Bullshit me!

All violence is justified and all injustice is justified....It must be, because if it were just, and if it were peaceful, it would justify itself...You never have to justify doing the right thing...Just do it, and leave the justification to others...
john2054
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2010 07:38 am
@Fido,
Hi Fido, thanks for you kind if cryptic words. I don't like liars. I guess you could call it a genetic fault. As for the little guy who i budged, well he has forgot all about the whole thing by now. And the Dr did see to give me half an hour unescourted leave on friday, which is a start if not enough. This wormhole which I call my life seems to take on a vile trajectory at times. With the rare moments of happiness scattered inbetween. Such as when I speak to my African bride and step-daughter in the evenings. Peace.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Oct, 2010 08:29 am
@john2054,
john2054 wrote:

Hi Fido, thanks for you kind if cryptic words. I don't like liars. I guess you could call it a genetic fault. As for the little guy who i budged, well he has forgot all about the whole thing by now. And the Dr did see to give me half an hour unescourted leave on friday, which is a start if not enough. This wormhole which I call my life seems to take on a vile trajectory at times. With the rare moments of happiness scattered inbetween. Such as when I speak to my African bride and step-daughter in the evenings. Peace.

Are you African??? I don't really know a lot of Afticans... Judging from the Jerry Springer show they all talk loud, have short fuses, and just seem to go to bed and have sex with people they fancy, often not knowing who is the parent of their child or if they are the parent of their child, and they lie, lie lie to not get caught caught caught... And they seem pretty good at it...
 

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