1
   

Do you think Democrats would have a better shot if...

 
 
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 11:06 am
all the liberal PACs instead of endorsing and campaigning for specific candidates instead merged to from an antibush PAC such as...

People for getting Bush out of office

I think there are many many controversial things (that the vast majority of americans disagree with) that Bush has done that should be brought to the lime light more...

Passing and then expanding the patriot act that go against everything the bill of rights stands for by making it legal to hold American citizens indefinately in jail without offering up evidence, pressing charges, without holding a trial, allowing them an attorney or so much as telling them why they are in jail in the first place.

Endorsing sodomy laws (and later critiquing the supreme court for repealing them) that regulate whether or not two consenting adults can have intercourse the privacy of their own home. I don't care what your view of homosexuality is. If no one is being hurt, I think most americans agree that the government has no business regulating what happens in one's own bedroom. Keep in mind that some of these sodomy laws weren't even restricted to homosexuals. Some of those laws allowed the government to throw a wife and husband in jail for engaging in oral sex!!!

Refusing to regulate or control spending and allowing massive special interest donations to corporate interests and wealthy individuals thus balloning the national defecit without control. Examples include the massive entitlements to drug companies in the medicare bill, the tax cuts that gave such a large percentage of the money to multimillionaires etc.

Possibly stuff like passing and then quickly repealing steel tariffs though this I'm hazy on since it might be that Bush didn't have much of a choice in the matter.

I know there are dozens of other examples out there, could people point out some more where most people would agree that Bush was clearly wrong?

Keep in mind, I'm not talking about things like Iraq that people are split on. I'm talking about the stuff that bush did that the majority of americans disagree with. I'm not a fan of mudslinging but there are things that Bush clearly shouldn't have done and that most Americans agree that he shouldn't have done.

The advantages of such a PAC are that...

They'll make even the stauntest of conservatives hesistate to go out of their way to vote for Bush, a man who has essentially tarnished the Bill of Rights.

It'll bring this stuff into the public's eye but since it's talking about stuff that most Americans agree is bad and it's not being generated by the actual democratic candidates themselves, just by people in general, there won't be a backlash.

They'll increase of the passions of liberals everywhere (the majority of americans) enough that more of them might bother to vote the next time around.

All we need to do is remind people of all the bad things the Bush administration has purposefully and knowingly done. Because all that matters is that we don't have Bush in office for another 4 years.

I think this is a much more productive use of PAC funds than to endorse specific candidates. I frankly don't care whether it's Dean, Edwards, Clark or even McCain (god I wish he was running as an Independent) who wins, just as long as it's someone other than Bush.
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 773 • Replies: 9
No top replies

 
Centroles
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 11:12 am
Re: Do you think Democrats would have a better shot if...
PDiddie wrote:
I'm still feeling a little silly; anybody else?

From the Bush-Cheney '04website:

George W. Bush wrote:
http://www.georgewbush.org/news/images/economy.jpg

Over the course of my life, I have often benefited from the friendship of others. It is through my friends and the friends of my father that I came to acquire the Texas Rangers, it is through my friends and the friends of my father that I was able to acquire my first oil company, it is through my friends and the friends of my father that I was able to run for Congress, and it is through my friends and the friends of my father that I became Governor of Texas.

Finally, it is through my brother, my friends and the friends of my father that I became President of the United States.

But besides high-profile friendship, my career has been marked by another, less cheerful pattern: a lack of second chances.

When my oil company couldn't find any oil in Texas, through no fault of my own, it went bankrupt just after I sold all my stock. I was never given another chance to own an oil company.

When I lost my race for Congress, I was never offered another chance to run such a race--even though I had lost through no fault of my own, elections being so often the "wild cards" of our politics.

When I went AWOL from the Texas National Guard, no one ever offered me another chance to earn an honorable discharge.

When, as Governor of Texas, I was asked to change pollution laws for power and oil companies and did just that, I accidentally made Texas the most polluted state in the Union, and Houston the most polluted city in America. And when I was asked to cut taxes too much and did so, I accidentally bankrupted the Texas government. Yet no one ever offered me a second chance to achieve an honorable record in Texas.

Today, as President of the United States, I of course have done some marvelous things. I have already set the all-time record for most campaign fund-raising trips of any President in US history. I kept the US out of the international spotlight by withdrawing from the World Court. I avoided media insanity quite well, with fewer televised press conferences than any other President since the advent of television.

But I know, too, that my record hasn't been perfect. Leaving aside my accomplishments for the moment, I'd like to eat some humble pie:

**Three million of you have lost your jobs over the past three years. That is bad - worse than at any other time since the Great Depression, when Herbert Hoover was President. I know this.

**1.7 million of you dropped below the poverty line this past year. That is bad, because 1.7 million is the population of Philadelphia, the "city of brotherly love." Imagine all of Philadelphia falling off the shelf of prosperity, all at once. Believe me, I know.

**For those of you in the middle classes, incomes have gone down, after rising throughout the 1990s. I know.

http://www.georgewbush.org/news/images/strenghtening.jpg

**My tax cuts have turned your budget surplus into a $480 billion deficit. I know there are many things you could have used the surplus for, and I know it will cause your children some stress later on. I know this.

**It was during my tenure that more private bankruptcies were filed in twelve months than ever before. I know.

**It was during my tenure that the stock market dropped more than ever before in history. I know.

**I accidentally appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any other President in US history. I'm living with that legacy, like all of us are.

**I also accidentally appointed more multi-millionaires to my cabinet than any other President in US history. My cabinet is by far the richest of any in US history. This was a tactless move, I know - I know.

**Your country's security is a mess. Even my generals in the field, even my Homeland Security apparatus, even Rumsfeld is telling me that now, the American people face a great deal more of a threat than before my War on Terror began. I know that too.

**After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, I presided over the worst security failure in US history. I remember that well, even today.

**Your country's diplomacy is in tatters. After September 11, we received an outpouring of heartfelt sympathy from our allies and enemies alike. We had an opportunity to build on that sympathy. Today, none of our allies trusts us one bit, and not only because we found no weapons of mass destruction. I know how this hurts some of you. Believe me, I know.

**I dissolved more international treaties than any other President in US history. I know that this hasn't helped our diplomacy either.

**More people have taken to the streets to protest me and my actions (around 15 million worldwide on February 15 alone) than ever before in the history of humanity. I know these figures quite well.

**Because of my actions, the United Nations removed the US from its human rights commission and its elections monitoring board. I know that!

Now all this is not good, I know. But I'm asking you for a second chance. If you grant it to me, it will be a first for my lifetime, and I will forever be grateful.

As an American, I think you can understand the importance of second chances. If you've lost your job during my tenure, surely you'll want some corporation, somewhere on earth, to give you another job someday, and not say "Oh, no, you messed up for good. You can't ever work again."

Since there's a good chance you can relate to this scenario, I feel I can ask you, as a friend: please, give me a second four-year term. Give me that second chance--for once in my life.

Thank you.

- George W. Bush
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 04:44 pm
Patriot Act 1 & 2
Quote:
Passing and then expanding the patriot act that go against everything the bill of rights stands for by making it legal to hold American citizens indefinately in jail without offering up evidence, pressing charges, without holding a trial, allowing them an attorney or so much as telling them why they are in jail in the first place.


It goes deeper than that. No judge needs to authorise, wire taps, monitoring of emails, library records, financial records or arrest warrent. More goodies on the way. No rights whatsoever if the FBI, via Homeland Securtiy wishes to arrest anyone. Think Gestapo or KGB.


What is the USA Patriot Act?

by Kellie Gasink & William Pleasant
Green Party of Chatham County, Savannah Georgia

The USA PATRIOT ACT is an acronym standing for: "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act." This legislation was signed into law on October 26, 2002 as Public Law No: 107-56. The USA Patriot Act is composed of 342 pages. Most lawmakers admit that they never read the bill before voting on it. Put simply, from October 23 to October 26, a massive piece of legislation was rammed through both the House of Representatives and Senate, without public hearings of any sort. It was sold as the legal measures required to prevent future terroristic attacks on U.S. soil. In the wake of the September 11, 2001, attacks, the American people were gripped in fear. Any and all measures of self-protection seemed desirable. But in the hysteria, the President, aided and abetted by both houses of the federal legislature, violated the U.S. Constitution and, in turn, stripped away the basic civil liberties embodied in the Bill of Rights, in the name of "national security."

The USA Patriot Act (PA) is composed of many laws already on the books that are designed to counter terrorism in the U.S. What distinguishes the PA from these pre-September 11 laws is its ENABLING characteristics. Put simply, the criminal statutes, investigative rules and court procedures which safeguarded our constitutionally guaranteed civil liberties in previous anti-terror legislation were stripped away by the Patriot Act. They have been replaced by a system of Executive Branch fiat, now institutionalized in the department of Homeland Security. How did the USA Patriot Act accomplish this feat? The USA Patriot Act clamps down on:

FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious labor, and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity, to assist terror investigation.

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records requests.

FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.

RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.

FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' personal records, business documents and telephone/internet activity without probable cause to assist terror investigation.

RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.

RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront the witnesses against them.

While many Americans were led by the Bush administration to believe that the Patriot Act was soley directed at foreign nationals in the U.S. who may pose a military threat to citizens and property (specifically people of Southwest Asian and North African descent--a version of racial profiling), it swiftly emerged that the actual day-to-day targets of the Patriot Act were U.S. citizens and legal aliens. Overwhelmingly, they have suffered the abuses of federal police policies which have led to public humiliation, invasion of personal privacy, intimidation, movement control and monitoring, capricious arrest and detention, and denial of legal remedy in the court system.

http://www.greenparty.org/patriot.html
0 Replies
 
Centroles
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 04:44 pm
What do you guys say? Don't you think that would be a more productive way to spend the soft campaign dollars?
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 05:03 pm
Yes.
If the Democrats lose, this country will be in big trouble on many fronts. Think, 3rd world Police State.
0 Replies
 
Centroles
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 09:26 pm
do you think the strategy i mentioned migh work?
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2003 11:20 pm
I couldn't hurt.
No way to know if it would work but what is the most important goal of the Democrats?
0 Replies
 
Centroles
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2003 02:57 am
right now, i think it's to get enough liberals to care about politics to come and vote in the next election. and the stuff that bush is doing, i think they could easily pull this off with a good impassionate candidate like Dean or Clark. and maybe if enough liberals show up, democrats can regain control of the house and senate as well.
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2003 04:30 am
Tough Battle
I feel that the present Regime is the enemy of the people. The Dems and Independents are going to have pull together and fight harder than they ever have. Maybe even the Greens and Socialists will have to forgo thier goals this just once to keep the scum of this present regime from trashing America.
0 Replies
 
Centroles
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Dec, 2003 01:08 pm
it looks like gore is backing dean now. i guess he's a shoe in at the primaries now. i'm glad that he is, i think he would make a great president.

i just hope he pulls off a victory over bush, something that i'm confident clark could've pulled off.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Do you think Democrats would have a better shot if...
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 05/17/2024 at 12:09:35