What Do You Need To Be Free?

@north,

Physical freedom also provides freedom of thought. Freedom of thought doesn't necessarily mean you can act out on what one thinks freely.

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to be free I need enough financial security to be able to stop charging.

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@blueveinedthrobber,

blueveinedthrobber wrote:

to be free I need enough financial security to be able to stop charging.

Goods or services that are given without charge r seldom respected by the recipients.

David

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Physical freedom also provides freedom of thought.

how so ?

Quote:

Freedom of thought doesn't necessarily mean you can act out on what one thinks freely.

agreed

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'Freedom' is a matter of definition, and very little else. We are in large part 'slaves' to our own automatic behaviours/reactions/thought patterns etc.

We interact with others in ways that are largely automated, that can be very difficult to consciously change. Much of what we think of as just 'natural' is automated.
- Why can't you speak Mongolian? Because your mental patterns automatically match your concepts with english words, not Mongolian.
- Why can't you play tennis as well as Federer? Research shows the top sports peoples reflexes aren't much better than most people - what they do have is much more developed reaction patterns (patterns are habitual patterns).
-Why do karate classes teach the same action over and over again - to make it automated.
- Why did you need to learn balance on a surfboard in order to surf, and yet when you get good at it - balance seems so natural (natural here = so automatic) ? What about riding a bike , or driving a car - took a bit to learn, and now it seems automatic...same goes for how we learnt to walk.... .

..now the point being - these patterns run right throughout our life, including how we (men) react to ultra-beautiful women (much of it can be trained), react to conflict, and even how we go after our goals (or not).

Yet it can all be trained into us, which means how we have behaved all our lives is very automated.

And people ask what freedom is freedom from ourselves, freedom from others, freedom within social interaction, freedom from connection with others, freedom from rules? And what happens when you give others absolute freedom and it inpinges on you?

The concept of freedom reminds me of the consciousness debate.

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free of ego

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Faith !

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@north,

north, Have you ever been confined for a long period of time? What do you think monopolizes your thoughts under these conditions whether it be government control; prison; confined in one village, district, area, or island; or a Palestinian living in Israel?

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@north,

What we need to be free is lack of ego? Maybe the ability to give unconditional love, also? Searching for truth, finding it, especially about your own self?

Is your question what do you need to be free related in any way to the book, recently published, "Freedom" by Jonathan Franzen?

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@Pemerson,

Pemerson wrote:

What we need to be free is lack of ego?
Maybe the ability to give unconditional love, also?

Do u have it ?

David

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Pemerson wrote:
What we need to be free is lack of ego?
Maybe the ability to give unconditional love, also?
Do u have it ?

Well, let's see: It took a long,long time to realize that lack of ego could be a good and positive thing.

Do I give unconditional love to everybody? Probably, Jesus could be the only human who has ever done that (horses and dogs do that best.) But, I do stick around my house a lot, for such a wild thing.

David

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

north, Have you ever been confined for a long period of time? What do you think monopolizes your thoughts under these conditions whether it be government control; prison; confined in one village, district, area, or island; or a Palestinian living in Israel?

yes

the self

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@Pemerson,

Pemerson wrote:

What we need to be free is lack of ego? Maybe the ability to give unconditional love, also? Searching for truth, finding it, especially about your own self?

not just unconditional love

but also the ability to see , understand another point of view objectively

Quote:

Is your question what do you need to be free related in any way to the book, recently published, "Freedom" by Jonathan Franzen?

no

1 Reply

@north,

north wrote:

Pemerson wrote:

What we need to be free is lack of ego? Maybe the ability to give unconditional love, also? Searching for truth, finding it, especially about your own self?

not just unconditional love

but also the ability to see , understand another point of view objectively

So, if and when we are confined in some way, what we could do then is connect with the self, actually become the self that can only give unconditional love and know truth of all things. Of course, then, we would completely understand everything and couldn't make judgment calls. A tall order.

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@William,

William wrote:

What Do You Need To Be Free?

For all of you freedom loving individuals, please; tell me what it is that you think freedom is? If you are and others are, please tell me why you think you are and another is not.

Thanks for your cooperation. BTW do you think cooperation has anything to do with everyone being free?

William

Well I would imagine that you would need to be able to start a casual chain or process all on your own without any other causes prior to it. It would have to be a work of spontaneity.

Maybe a will? Something of that sort. But that does not address, if we take the will to be internal, the external relations an individual has with other objects.

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@Ding an Sich,

Now that´s a reasonable "verstand" of the "begriff" in the problem...

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@William,

"what do you need to be free?"
It depends on what you interpret freedom to be. and freedom from what?
I believe all human beings seek a way to achieve freedom from suffering. So from that perspective i would aswer you, Freedom is the absense of suffering. The absense of suffering is another word for, nothing left to lose. Naturally death, sickness and illusions are all around us, but if one would find a way to accept and let go of these sufferings i think he has aquired freedom.

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@Closedeye,

Suffering is not always based on "freedom."

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@William,

David Bohm suggests that freedom is tied up with an individuals perception of their identity, and their understanding of necessity and contingency.

If someone believes that they know themselves totally, then this "self-perception" only serves to limit their possibilities, and therefore their freedom. "I am this sort of person, and not that sort of person", "I do this, but I would never do that"; these kinds of thoughts limit our sense of freedom, because they take as necessary what is in fact only contingent, and so it is thought which limits our freedom.

so by identifying ourselves in this way, we limit our freedom. what we should do is try to see ourselves as potential, and always becoming, rather than as complete individuals, who "do this, but not that" etc.

freedom is closely tied up with becoming, and with allowing oneself to change over time. freedom requires awareness of why you are the way you are, and by becoming aware of these facts, we free ourselves from being subjected to their influence.

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@existential potential,

existential potential wrote:

David Bohm suggests that freedom is tied up with an individuals perception of their identity, and their understanding of necessity and contingency.

what we should do is try to see ourselves as potential, and always becoming, rather than as complete individuals, who "do this, but not that" etc.

freedom is closely tied up with becoming, and with allowing oneself to change over time. freedom requires awareness of why you are the way you are, and by becoming aware of these facts, we free ourselves from being subjected to their influence.

I would bow to that. Courage to Be

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What Do You Need To Be Free?

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