3
   

9 States to back Arizona in legal brief

 
 
parados
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2010 04:29 pm
@ABE5177,


The bill states this..
Quote:
A SCHOOL DISTRICT OR CHARTER SCHOOL IN THIS STATE SHALL NOT INCLUDE
10 IN ITS PROGRAM OF INSTRUCTION ANY COURSES OR CLASSES THAT INCLUDE ANY OF THE
11 FOLLOWING:


The bill doesn't stop payment for just that class Abe. It says nothing about "subsidizing" the classes. It cuts off 10% of the total payments if it decides that school is not in compliance. That isn't banning the subsidized class. That is banning the class.
ABE5177
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2010 05:25 pm
@parados,
Quote:
That isn't banning the subsidized class. That is banning the class.

yes younre getting it, wondeerful

if taxpayers have to pay for it it's BANNED
ig iy's pribsvately financec it's FREE
you got it, subsidies are ILLEGAL for cultural **** not illegal for privately financed ****, you pays your MONEY you gets your CHOICE, like money talks bullshit wlaks, you're bullshit central buddy, sorry to say this
parados
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2010 07:04 pm
@ABE5177,
Oh for God's sake ABE...

If a school provides the class and is found guilty of doing so, they don't lose funding for that class. They lose 10% of total funding. That would mean the class would lose 10% of it's funding and the taxpayers would still pay for 90% of it.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  3  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2010 08:13 pm
The basic reality of the CIA and its operations...

Ike determined that there should never be anything else like WW-II and its gigantic costs and suffering. Rather than get involved in anything else like that against the commie world, he hit upon two alternatives which were basically inexpensive i.e. covert ops and nuclear weaponry. Those were the weapons with which, and/or the threat of with which the cold war was fought and finally won.

Granted mistakes were made and people have been treated shittily at times and granted it's easy to confuse American policy with the policies of Wall Street and those big banks and the IMF and what not, but to accuse the US of raping and pillaging generally??

The hard, cold facts of the matter are that in the handful of laboratory cases in which the same people and nation were divided up into a commie side and a free side next to each other, there was never any question as to which way a sane person would want to go. Germany and Korea are the two most obvious such cases but you have to also consider cases like Iran in which you hear this constant leftist refrain about Ike and the CIA raping and pillaging a popular government and taking the place over; I mean, if Ike and John Foster Dulles saved one generation of those poor people from the bullshit they've had to endure since 1979, then I'd ultimately expect to see giant statues to Ike and John Foster Dulles in Iranian cities when the bullshit finally stops.



JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2010 10:56 pm
@gungasnake,
Quote:
The basic reality of the CIA and its operations...


You CIA, Gunga, ex-CIA. I'm absolutely certain that John Stockwell, not to mention the ICJ, not to mention all the Americans who went down to Nicaragua [stick in any country's name] to view the carnage knows a lot more about what the CIA has done than a deluded good American like you.

I've seen your sources, and they amount to none, that's zero, ziltch. Just Gunga, doing some silly speculation, based on a lifetime of the propaganda that's been drummed into your head.

Quote:
... but to accuse the US of raping and pillaging generally??


Quote:

Smedley Darlington Butler (July 30, 1881 – June 21, 1940), nicknamed "The Fighting Quaker" and "Old Gimlet Eye", was a Major General in the U.S. Marine Corps, and at the time of his death the most decorated Marine in U.S. history.

I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class thug for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street.

I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902–1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested.

Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.[12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler


That was the one of the ways, though it's still in use today in Iraq and Afghanistan though plans aren't working out like Bush and Cheney expected, you remember, the "we'll be hailed as liberators" crap.

It looks like the Russians, without lifting a finger, without supplying a nickel or a missile are getting their revenge on the US.

How did you miss JPB's thread? In it, Butterflynet, posted a video about the confessions of an economic hitman, an American who sets it straight.

[I hope this link works. I couldn't find JPB's thread, and BFN's video]

http://www.johnperkins.org/?p=816

===================


Quote:


The Tremor Felt Round the World

...

We are encouraged to believe that USAID, the World Bank, and other institutions are truly philanthropic, there to serve the best interests of the people and the country. However, the reality is that, in previous cases -- such as the Asian tsunami -- much of this aid is employed to help huge multinational companies gain a strangle-hold on resources (including cheap labor) and markets. Instead of helping local fisherman, farmers, restaurant, and bed and breakfast owners rebuild their devastated businesses, the money is invested in projects that benefit the Krafts, Chiquitas, Monsantos, Marriotts, and big box restaurant chains of the world.

In the case of Haiti, we also must not forget history. In the early 1800s the country declared its independence from France and proclaimed itself "slave-free." The French sued the new nation, stating that the loss of the slaves had negatively impacted the French economy. It was just one in a series of actions taken by foreign powers to subjugate Haiti. US Marines invaded in 1915 and occupied the nation for 19 years; ever since Haiti has been the haunt of corporate executives and government officials who have corrupted one leader after another.

While the earthquake happened in an instant, it took years of corporatocracy actions to create such a poverty-ridden country. There was no way Haiti could respond to a 7.0 earthquake because the misguided policies and interventions stripped it of any potential it might have had for surviving such a major traumatic event.

In Hoodwinked, I talk about how debt, the IMF and the World Bank create economies in poor countries that can then be corrupted and exploited. What the corporatocracy and the major media would have you believe is that we're the heroes; we're the ones who are contributing to the rebuilding of the country. The truth is that we provided the economic tectonic shift for decades that ensured that when Haiti was hit by a terrible earthquake it would find itself without infrastructure, without food, without water, without good leadership, and without hope.

The pictures of collapsed buildings in Haiti are a visual metaphor for how the aid, the loans, and policies that promote what amounts to slave labor to benefit foreign industrialists can so quickly bring a country to rubble. Many of the new manufacturing plants and other "modernization" projects established by US and European businesses in fact created an economic earthquake long before the Richter scale hit 7.0.

In the aftershock, the very best thing we can do is to finally rise up against this type of predatory capitalism, tell the bankers to forgive the unfair debts, and the aid agencies to invest in projects that will help the poorest of the poor pull themselves out of poverty and degradation.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-perkins/the-tremor-felt-round-the_b_431894.html





0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2010 11:09 pm
@gungasnake,
Quote:
Ike determined that there should never be anything else like WW-II and its gigantic costs and suffering.


Ike was a war criminal, a mass murderer. These are the hard, cold facts.

Quote:
You were not one of the exceptions, for more than one million seven hundred thousand German Prisoners of War died from a deliberate policy of extermination by starvation, exposure, and disease, under direct orders of the General Dwight David Eisenhower.

One month before the end of World War 11, General Eisenhower issued special orders concerning the treatment of German Prisoners and specific in the language of those orders was this statement,

"Prison enclosures are to provide no shelter or other comforts."


Why would anyone put any faith in the rantings of an evil person like that. That's like saying that we should have tried to save Hitler so he could be a consultant for the rebuilding of Europe.

Quote:

Eisenhower's Holocaust - His Slaughter Of 1.7 Million Germans

Author Unknown
6-22-8


"God, I hate the Germans..." (Dwight David Eisenhower in a letter to his wife in September, 1944)

First, I want you to picture something in your mind. You are a German soldier who survived through the battles of World II. You were not really politically involved, and your parents were also indifferent to politics, but suddenly your education was interrupted and you were drafted into the German army and told where to fight. Now, in the Spring of 1945, you see that your country has been demolished by the Allies, your cities lie in ruins, and half of your family has been killed or is missing. Now, your unit is being surrounded, and it is finally time to surrender. The fact is, there is no other choice.

It has been a long, cold winter. The German army rations have not been all that good, but you managed to survive. Spring came late that year, with weeks of cold rainy weather in demolished Europe. Your boots are tattered, your uniform is falling apart, and the stress of surrender and the confusion that lies ahead for you has your guts being torn out. Now, it is over, you must surrender or be shot. This is war and the real world.

You are taken as a German Prisoner of War into American hands. The Americans had 200 such Prisoner of War camps scattered across Germany. You are marched to a compound surrounded with barbed wire fences as far as the eye can see. Thousands upon thousands of your fellow German soldiers are already in this make-shift corral. You see no evidence of a latrine and after three hours of marching through the mud of the spring rain, the comfort of a latrine is upper-most in your mind. You are driven through the heavily guarded gate and find yourself free to move about, and you begin the futile search for the latrine. Finally, you ask for directions, and are informed that no such luxury exists.

No more time. You find a place and squat. First you were exhausted, then hungry, then fearful, and now; dirty. Hundreds more German prisoners are behind you, pushing you on, jamming you together and every one of them searching for the latrine as soon as they could do so. Now, late in the day, there is no space to even squat, much less sit down to rest your weary legs. None of the prisoners, you quickly learn, have had any food that day, in fact there was no food while in the American hands that any surviving prisoner can testify to. No one has eaten any food for weeks, and they are slowly starving and dying. But, they can't do this to us! There are the Geneva Convention rules for the treatment of Prisoners of War. There must be some mistake! Hope continues through the night, with no shelter from the cold, biting rain.

Your uniform is sopping wet, and formerly brave soldiers are weeping all around you, as buddy after buddy dies from the lack of food, water, sleep and shelter from the weather. After weeks of this, your own hope bleeds off into despair, and finally you actually begin to envy those who, having surrendered first manhood and then dignity, now also surrender life itself. More hopeless weeks go by. Finally, the last thing you remember is falling, unable to get up, and lying face down in the mud mixed with the excrement of those who have gone before.

Your body will be picked up long after it is cold, and taken to a special tent where your clothing is stripped off. So that you will be quickly forgotten, and never again identified, your dog-tag is snipped in half and your body along with those of your fellow soldiers are covered with chemicals for rapid decomposition and buried. You were not one of the exceptions, for more than one million seven hundred thousand German Prisoners of War died from a deliberate policy of extermination by starvation, exposure, and disease, under direct orders of the General Dwight David Eisenhower.

One month before the end of World War 11, General Eisenhower issued special orders concerning the treatment of German Prisoners and specific in the language of those orders was this statement,

"Prison enclosures are to provide no shelter or other comforts."

Eisenhower biographer Stephen Ambrose, who was given access to the Eisenhower personal letters, states that he proposed to exterminate the entire German General Staff, thousands of people, after the war.

Eisenhower, in his personal letters, did not merely hate the Nazi Regime, and the few who imposed its will down from the top, but that HE HATED THE GERMAN PEOPLE AS A RACE. It was his personal intent to destroy as many of them as he could, and one way was to wipe out as many prisoners of war as possible.

Of course, that was illegal under International law, so he issued an order on March 10, 1945 and verified by his initials on a cable of that date, that German Prisoners of War be predesignated as "Disarmed Enemy Forces" called in these reports as DEF. He ordered that these Germans did not fall under the Geneva Rules, and were not to be fed or given any water or medical attention. The Swiss Red Cross was not to inspect the camps, for under the DEF classification, they had no such authority or jurisdiction.

Months after the war was officially over, Eisenhower's special German DEF camps were still in operation forcing the men into confinement, but denying that they were prisoners. As soon as the war was over, General George Patton simply turned his prisoners loose to fend for themselves and find their way home as best they could. Eisenhower was furious, and issued a specific order to Patton, to turn these men over to the DEF camps. Knowing Patton as we do from history, we know that these orders were largely ignored, and it may well be that Patton's untimely and curious death may have been a result of what he knew about these wretched Eisenhower DEF camps.

The book, OTHER LOSSES, found its way into the hands of a Canadian news reporter, Peter Worthington, of the OTTAWA SUN. He did his own research through contacts he had in Canada, and reported in his column on September 12,1989 the following, in part:

"...it is hard to escape the conclusion that Dwight Eisenhower was a war criminal of epic proportions. His (DEF) policy killed more Germans in peace than were killed in the European Theater."

"For years we have blamed the 1.7 million missing German POW's on the Russians. Until now, no one dug too deeply ... Witnesses and survivors have been interviewed by the author; one Allied officer compared the American camps to Buchenwald."

It is known, that the Allies had sufficient stockpiles of food and medicine to care for these German soldiers. This was deliberately and intentionally denied them. Many men died of gangrene from frostbite due to deliberate exposure. Local German people who offered these men food, were denied. General Patton's Third Army was the only command in the European Theater to release significant numbers of Germans.

Others, such as Omar Bradley and General J.C.H. Lee, Commander of Com Z, tried, and ordered the release of prisoners within a week of the war's end. However, a SHAEF Order, signed by Eisenhower, countermanded them on May 15th.

Does that make you angry? What will it take to get the average apathetic American involved in saving his country from such traitors at the top? Thirty years ago, amid the high popularity of Eisenhower, a book was written setting out the political and moral philosophy; of Dwight David Eisenhower called, THE POLITICIAN, by Robert Welch. This year is the 107th Anniversary of Eisenhower's birth in Denison, Texas on October 14, 1890, the son of Jacob David Eisenhower and his wife Ida. Everyone is all excited about the celebration of this landmark in the history of "this American patriot." Senator Robert Dole, in honor of the Commander of the American Death Camps, proposed that Washington's Dulles Airport be renamed the Eisenhower Airport!

The UNITED STATES MINT in Philadelphia, PA is actually issuing a special Eisenhower Centennial Silver Dollar for only $25 each. They will only mint 4 million of these collector's items, and veteran's magazines are promoting these coins under the slogan, "Remember the Man...Remember the Times..." Pardon me if I regurgitate!

There will be some veterans who will not be buying these coins. Two will be Col. James Mason and Col. Charles Beasley who were in the U.S. Army Medical Corps who published a paper on the Eisenhower Death Camps in 1950. They stated in part:

"Huddled close together for warmth, behind the barbed wire was a most awesome sight; nearly 100,000 haggard, apathetic, dirty, gaunt, blank-staring men clad in dirty gray uniforms, and standing ankle deep in mud ... water was a major problem, yet only 200 yards away the River Rhine was running bank-full."

Another Veteran, who will not be buying any of the Eisenhower Silver Dollars is Martin Brech of Mahopac, New York, a semi-retired professor of philosophy at Mercy College in Dobbs Ferry, NY. In 1945, Brech was an 18 year old Private First Class in Company C of the 14th Infantry, assigned as a guard and interpreter at the Eisenhower Death Camp at Andernach, along the Rhine River. He stated for SPOTLIGHT, February 12, 1990:

"My protests (regarding treatment of the German DEF'S) were met with hostility or indifference, and when I threw our ample rations to them over the barbed wire. I was threatened, making it clear that it was our deliberate policy not to adequately feed them."

When they caught me throwing C- Rations over the fence, they threatened me with imprisonment. One Captain told me that he would shoot me if he saw me again tossing food to the Germans ... Some of the men were really only boys 13 years of age...Some of the prisoners were old men drafted by Hitler in his last ditch stand ... I understand that average weight of the prisoners at Andernach was 90 pounds...I have received threats ... Nevertheless, this...has liberated me, for I may now be heard when I relate the horrible atrocity I witnessed as a prison guard for one of 'Ike's death camps' along the Rhine." (Betty Lou Smith Hanson)

Note: Remember the photo of Ike's West Point yearbook picture when he was dubbed "IKE, THE TERRIBLE SWEDISH JEW"? By the way, he was next, or nearly so, to the last in his class. This article was first printed in 1990, but we thought it was meaningful to reprint it now.

Note: During Cadet Eisenhower's time at West Point Academy, Eisenhower was summoned to the office of the headmaster and was asked some pointed questions. At the time, it was routine procedure to test a cadet's blood to insure White racial integrity.

Apparently, there was a question of Eisenhower's racial lineage and this was brought to Eisenhower's attention by the headmaster. When asked if he was part Oriental, Eisenhower replied in the negative. After some discussion, Eisenhower admitted having Jewish background. The headmaster then reportedly said, "That's where you get your Oriental blood?" Although he was allowed to remain at the academy, word got around since this was a time in history when non-Whites were not allowed into the academy. Note - The issue of Eisenhower's little-known Jewish background in academically essential in understanding his psychopathic hatred of German men, women and children.

Later, in Eisenhower's West Point Military Academy graduating class yearbook, published in 1915, Eisenhower is identified as a "terrible Swedish Jew."

Wherever Eisenhower went during his military career, Eisenhower's Jewish background and secondary manifesting behavior was a concern to his fellow officers. During World War II when Col. Eisenhower was working for Gen. Douglas MacArthur in the South Pacific, MacArthur protested to his superiors in Washington (DC) that Eisenhower was incompetent and that he did not want Eisenhower on his staff.

In 1943, Washington not only transferred Col. Eisenhower to Europe but promoted him over more than 30 more experienced senior officers to five star general and placed him in charge of all the US forces in Europe.

Thus it comes as no surprise that General George Patton, a real Aryan warrior, hated Eisenhower.

[Ed: Patton was keen to fight the Soviets, and reportedly kept some German units ready to move against the Soviets...unsurprisingly he was killed; after the war, in a 'car crash,' just like Lawrence of Arabia was conveniently bumped off, in a similar manner, for his 'pro-fascist' views].


Comment
From George
12-28-3


Finally, the truth about Ike. He was a zionist!, a racist! and a slaughterer of innocents! He was always these things. And all anyone remembers is his famous quote "to beware of the military/industrial complex." Like this knowledge means he was a great precient prophet, when he was really a part of the NWO and helped set the US up for all that followed. The tooling jobs and industry started to leave the US in the early '50's, when Ike got into power. It was Japan they were building. Notice the difference between the destruction of Japan and the quick buildup of the Philipines and Japan and the Pacific the US took over, after the war of hegemony to steal the wealth of the Pacific Rim and present day Afghanistan, Iraq etc., now that the zionists rule the 'world'. The zionist essence is evil, destructive and self-destructive. Ike was a tool of the zionist evil essence.


German POW's Diary Reveals More Of Ike's Holocaust
12-29-3

Note - The following diary extract has been provided by the nephew of the author under the conditions we honor his request for anonymity. -ed

A transcript of my Uncle's words...from my Mother's diary:

"Suddenly an American Jeep moved towards us and several American Soldiers surrounded us. There was no officer in charge, and the first thing the 'Amis' did - they liberated us, I mean, from our few valuables, mainly rings and watches........ We were now prisoners of war- no doubt about it!

The first night we were herded into a barn, where we met about 100 men who shared the same fate. To make my story short, we were finally transported to Fuerstenfeldbruck near Munich. Here we, who were gathered around Hermann, interrupted him and gasped in dismay.

Fuerstenfeldbruck had become known to us as one of the most cruel POW camps in the American zone.

Then my brother continued:

Again we were searched and had to surrender everything, even our field utensils, except a spoon. Here, in freezing temperature, 20,000 of us were squeezed together on the naked ground, without blanket or cover, exposed day and night to the winter weather.

For six days we received neither food nor water! We used our spoons to catch drops of rain.

We were surrounded by heavy tanks. During the night bright searchlights blinded us, so that sleep was impossible. We napped from time to time, standing up and leaning against each other. It was keeping us warmer that sitting on the frozen ground.

Many of us were near collapse. One of our comrades went mad, he jumped around wildly, wailing and whimpering. he was shot at once. His body was lying on the ground, and we were not allowed to come near him. He was not he only one. Each suspicious movement caused the guards to shoot into the crowd, and a few were always hit.

German civilians, mainly women of the surrounding villages, tried to approach the camp to bring food and water for us prisoners. they were chased away.

Our German officers could finally succeed to submit an official protest, particularly because of the deprivation of water. As a response, a fire hose was thrown into the midst of the densely crowded prisoners and then turned on. Because of the high water pressure the hose moved violently to and fro. Prisoners tumbled, fell, got up and ran again to catch a bit of water. In that confusion the water went to waste, and the ground under us turned into slippery mud. All the while the 'Amis' watched that spectacle, finding it very funny and most entertaining. They laughed at our predicament as hard as they could. Then suddenly, they turned the water off again.

We had not expected that the Americans would behave in such a manner. We could hardly believe it. War brutalizes human beings.

One day later we were organized into groups of 400 men .... We were to receive two cans of food for each man. This is how it was to be done: The prisoners had to run through he slippery mud, and each one had to grab his two cans quickly, at the moment he passed the guards. One of my comrades slipped and could not run fast enough, He was shot at once ....

On May 10th , several truckloads of us were transported the the garrison of Ulm by the Danube..... As each man jumped into the truck, a guard kicked him in the backbone with his rifle butt.

We arrived in the city of Heilbronn by the Neckar, In the end we counted 240,000 men, who lived on the naked ground and without cover.

Spring and summer were mild this year, but we were starving. At 6;00 am we received coffee, at noon about a pint of soup and 100 grams of bread a day........

The 'Amis' gave us newspapers in German language, describing the terrors of the concentration camps. We did not believe any of it. We figured the Americans only wanted to demoralize us further.

The fields on which we lived belonged to the farmers of the area...soon nothing of the clover and other sprouting greens were left, and the trees were barren. We had eaten each blade of grass.....

In some camps there were Hungarian POW's. 15,000 of them. Mutiny against their officers broke out twice amongst them. After the second mutiny the Americans decided to use German prisoners to govern the Hungarians. Since the Hungarians were used as workers they were well fed. There was more food than they could eat. But when the Germans asked the Americans for permission to bring the Hungarians' leftovers into the camps of the starving Germans, it was denied. The Americans rather destroyed surplus food, than giving it to the Germans.

Sometimes it happened that groups of our own men were gathered and transported away. We presumed they were discharged to go home, and naturally, we wished to be among them. Much later we heard they were sent to labor camps! My mother's cousin, feared that he would be drafted into the Hitler Youth SS, he volunteered to the marines, in 1945 his unit was in Denmark. On April 20th they were captured by the Americans. his experience in the POW camp was identical that of my brother's. They lived in open fields, did not receive and food and water the first six days, and starved nearly to death. German wives and mothers who wanted to throw loaves of bread over the fence, were chased off. The prisoners, just to have something to chew, scraped the bark from young trees. my cousins job was to report each morning how many had died during the night. "and these were not just a few!" he adds to his report he wrote me.

It became known, that the conditions in the POW camps in the American Zone were identical everywhere. We could therefore safely conclude, that it was by intent and by orders from higher ups to starve the German POW's and we blamed General Eisenhower for it. He, who was of German descent could not discern the evildoers during the Nazi time from our decent people. We held that neglect of knowledge and understanding severely against him.

I wish to quote the inscription on the grave stones of those of my German compatriots who have already passed away:

We had to pass through fire and through water. But now you have loosened our bonds.

http://www.rense.com/general46/germ.htm





0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  3  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2010 11:15 pm
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:
The basic reality of the CIA and its operations...

Ike determined that there should never be anything else like WW-II and its gigantic costs and suffering.
Rather than get involved in anything else like that against the commie world, he hit upon two alternatives
which were basically inexpensive i.e. covert ops and nuclear weaponry.

Those were the weapons with which, and/or the threat of with
which the cold war was fought and finally won.
That WAS the 3rd World War. It was quieter than the first 2,
except for Korea n IndoChina.





David
JTT
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2010 11:26 pm
@OmSigDAVID,

More of the basic reality of the CIA and its operations
Quote:



The Indonesian covert action of 1965, reported by Ralph McGehee, who was in that area division, and had documents on his desk, in his custody about that operation. He said that one of the documents concluded that this was a model operation that should be copied elsewhere in the world. Not only did it eliminate the effective communist party (Indonesian communist party), it also eliminated the entire segment of the population that tended to support the communist party - the ethnic Chinese, Indonesian Chinese. And the CIA's report put the number of dead at 800,000 killed. And that was one covert action. We're talking about 1 to 3 million people killed in these things.

Two of these things have led us directly into bloody wars. There was a covert action against China, destabilizing China, for many, many years, with a propaganda campaign to work up a mood, a feeling in this country, of the evils of communist China, and attacking them, as we're doing in Nicaragua today, with an army that was being launched against them to parachute in and boat in and destabilize the country. And this led us directly into the Korean war.

Ibid

0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  3  
Reply Mon 19 Jul, 2010 03:57 am
Quote:
Not only did it eliminate the effective communist party (Indonesian communist party), it also eliminated the entire segment of the population that tended to support the communist party - the ethnic Chinese, Indonesian Chinese. And the CIA's report put the number of dead at 800,000 killed.


What is it we're not seeing in this? I mean, the U.S. has never had the force in Indonesia to kill 800,000 people and the other question is, compared to what?

I mean, the reasons for wanting to eliminate communism in the world were sufficiently real. Was Indonesia going to be better off with Kim Il Jong or Cieucescu in charge of it??
gungasnake
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Jul, 2010 05:46 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:
Two of these things have led us directly into bloody wars. There was a covert action against China, destabilizing China, for many, many years, with a propaganda campaign to work up a mood, a feeling in this country, of the evils of communist China, and attacking them, as we're doing in Nicaragua today, with an army that was being launched against them to parachute in and boat in and destabilize the country. And this led us directly into the Korean war.


Anybody else see what's wrong with this? I mean, there were only about four years between the end of WW-II in the Pacific and the onset of the Korean war which was brought about by a pure desire of Stalin's puppet government to rule all of Korea.

For that matter if we'd wanted to rape and pillage China in perpetuity, we could have simply allowed Japan to keep its army in China and told those guys they were now working for us. The average Chinese would have been better off.


0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 19 Jul, 2010 01:52 pm
@gungasnake,
Trying to influence other countries choice of government is terrorism pure and simple.

Quote:
What is it we're not seeing in this?


You're missing everything, Gunga. With your blinders on, with the propaganda that fills your head, you can't see the bodies with a John Wayne mentality.

Quote:
Then you have the `Public Safety Program.' I have to take just a minute on this one because it's a very important principle involved that we must understand, if we're to understand ourselves and the world that we live in. In this one, the CIA was working with policeforces throughout Latin America for about 26 years, teaching them how to wrap up subversive networks by capturing someone and interrogating them, torturing them, and then getting names and arresting the others and going from there. Now, this was such a brutal and such a bloody operation, that Amnesty International began to complain and publish reports. Then there were United Nations hearings. Then eventually our Congress was forced to yield to international pressure and investigate it, and they found the horror that was being done, and by law they forced it to stop. You can read these reports -- the Amnesty International findings, and our own Congressional hearings.

These things kill people. 800,000 in Indonesia alone according to CIA's estimate, 12,000 in Nicaragua, 10,000 in the Angolan operation that I was sitting on in Washington, managing the task force. They add up. We'll never know how many people have been killed in them. Obviously a lot. Obviously at least a million. 800,000 in Indonesia alone. Undoubtedly the minimum figure has to be 3 million. Then you add in a million people killed in Korea, 2 million people killed in the Vietnam war, and you're obviously getting into gross millions of people...

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Stockwell/StockwellCIA87_2.html


Gross millions of people, Gunga. The number is virtually the same as what the Nazis did in the Holocaust.

Quote:
What comes out at you immediately is that these 1 to 3 million direct victims, the dead, and in these other wars, they're people of the third world. They're people of the Metumba mountains of the Congo, and the jungles of Southeast Asia, and now the hills of northern Nicaragua - 12,000 peasants. We have not killed KGB or Russian army advisors in Nicaragua. We are not killing Cuban advisors. We're not killing very many Sandinistas. The 12,000 that we have killed in Nicaragua are peasants, who have the misfortune of living in a CIA's chosen battlefield. Mostly women and children. Communists? Far, far, far more Catholics than anything else.

Ibid


Have you ever heard of any CIA, any American, any foreign national trained by the CIA to commit terrorist acts, to rape, torture and murder, ever being held to account for these actions? And yet the USA is always, pontificating, posturing, screaming and pointing fingers;

"Terrorists terrorists, terrorism. Let's get sanctions put on another country that we've fabricated evidence about. Let's demand that these criminals be brought to justice."

For years the US presented the lie that it was the Soviets who killed the German POWs that in fact had been murdered under the direct orders of Eisenhower.

Stop with these weak diversionary tactics. Stop trying to cover up the plain and simple fact, the USA is a terrorist nation, one that has been responsible for the deaths of as many people or more than died in Nazi death camps.
ABE5177
 
  3  
Reply Mon 19 Jul, 2010 02:45 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Trying to influence other countries choice of government is terrorism pure and simple.

i agree with you! read gungasnakes post on this thread, so now you agree Mexico 's president is a terrorizts!
Quote:
Quote:
Mexican President Felipe Calderon lectured the American people against “such laws as the Arizona law that is forcing our people to face discrimination.”
JTT
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 19 Jul, 2010 03:12 pm
@ABE5177,
Quote:
i agree with you! read gungasnakes post on this thread, so now you agree Mexico 's president is a terrorizts!


I'm not the least bit surprised that this has to be explained to a simpleton like you, Abe.

Trying to influence other countries' choice of government, by illegal means, is terrorism pure and simple. Civilized countries daily engage in constructive conversation that is meant to sort things out peaceably and without bloodshed.

gungasnake
 
  5  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 10:25 am
@JTT,
The guy clearly feels that having 20,000,000 of his fellows running around here footloose and fancy-free gives him significant leverage with the demoKKKrat party, as in:

Quote:

"Hey, muchachos, all you gotta do is figure a way to make US citizens outta alla dem peoples, an you got da power as far into the future as human eyes can see..."

0 Replies
 
 

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