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I based my argument on the findings of an archaeologist. You know, the guys who deal with things like this. He didn't just say "Oh these are fakes", he put up evidence to support this. He even commented on how simple it was to dismiss the excavation site as a hoax.



Hmmm... radiocarbon dating on inorganic objects? You know that doesn't work, right? :rollinglaugh:



Weren't people paid to bring these forth? Sounds like good incentive to make little dinos to me.

Again, you miss the simple fact that radiocarbon dating is not applicable to inorganic objects. That alone shows that these "professional" and "educated" people... aren't.

More educated and professional? Surely you jest.

Waldemar Julsrud was a hardware merchant. He paid for the figurines.

Charles Hapgood was a historian. Strange that a historian didn't realize that the excavation site was of a civilization that doesn't date anywhere near the supposed dates of the figurines found inside. In fact, they predate the actual civilization by almost 2,000 years.

Now, let's look at DiPeso:

Di Peso's first field experience was at Ackmen, Colorado in 1937. In 1941 Di Peso returned to the field to conduct work in New Mexico. Both of these were headed by the Field Museum in Chicago. Di Peso earned a B.A in anthropology and a B.S. in geology from Beloit College in 1942.

After graduation Di Peso joined the U.S. Air Force and was a pilot during World War II and was discharged in 1946. During his time in the Air Force Di Peso was stationed in Phoenix, Arizona where he lived after the war becoming the archaeologist for the city.

In 1947 Di Peso received a B.F.T. from the American Institute of of Foreign Trade. He received his M.A. from the University of Arizona in 1950 and earned his PhD from there in 1953 becoming the first student at that institution to earn that degree. There, he was a student of the famous Southwest archaeologist Emil Haury who influenced him greatly throughout his career.

Di Peso first worked for the Amerind Foundation in 1948 and in 1954 became the director which he held until his death in 1982.

Sounds a whole lot more professional and educated than a hardware merchant and a historian that failed to overturn plate tectonics, doesn't it?



Here's a question for you: Of all these dinosaur figurines, why are none found in the region? I mean, why are there no fossils in that area that match them?

Sounds rather fishy to me.

Every point made by Di Peso has been refuted by Hapgood, and others. Di Peso main point that it appeared that the site had been dug up from before was refuted when Hapgood continued digging in other parts of the search area years latter, and he continued to find new figurines.
Di Peso was dimissing the dig site as a hoax before he even saw the dig site, so it should come as no surprise that he dismissed it when he got there. His belief in Evolution required that he dismiss it.
You focused on the hardware merchant, yet did you forget to mention that a number of other qualified men were involved in the dig. I guess that just slipped your mind. There was Dr. Ramond C. Barber, of the Los Angeles county Museum, Dr. Eduardo Noguera who was the director of Pre-Hispanic monuments in Mexico, and a host of others. Yet not one of them ever suggested fraud. Only DiPeso claimed this.
You say they have not found any fossils, yet Charles Hapgood found real teeth among the collection of a equus conversidans owen, which was from an extinct horse from the ice age.

Can you tell me why if this collection was a fraud, why in this collection do they have dinosaurs such as the Diplodicus, Argentinasaurus, and Brachiosaurus depicted with spikes on their backs? Even the journals, and magazines did not show them this way. This was unknown untill the 1990s.
The figurines were found in the 1940s and 1950s. How could this be?

I have at least 5 ceramic pieces in my home right now and have made numerous others within the last 4 years. However this does not make me an expert, but i can say with certainty that you cannot tell from the picture.



I'm not gonna do the he-said she-said argument here because frankly it's a waste of time, especially since i've never once used DiPeso as reasoning for my rejection of the ceramics, it's based on a mutually understood suspicious circumstances.



ERVs and Fused chromosomes.

Stop dodging and answer the questions:

Why was radiocarbon dating used on inorganic objects?

Why were the thirty-thousand figurines all in near perfect condition?

Why are they supposedly older than the civilization that made them?

Why are there no DINOSAUR fossils in that area?

Why do some of the figurines have two legs and contain other features not found in dinosaurs?

Why are these the ONLY references to dinosaurs in the area?

Why were the figurines improperly thermo tested?

Where are the figurines now? Can you supply pictures of thirty-thousand figurines?

Show me the peer reviewed paperwork showing the tests done, the refutation of DiPeso's explanations and, of course, images of ALL the figurines.

Show me peer reviewed paperwork from everyone else you claim has refuted DiPeso's explanations.

All you have here is pure heresay and creationist websites. You have no actual evidence, reports, testing, you have nothing. Until you start supplying concrete evidence, you will not be taken seriously.

Well I'm not an expert either, yet if you read the story it states that they have boxes filled with many peices that were broken off of the figurines. Many of them were found buried or in the area of the dig site. And even DiPeso stated that the figures were broken in most cases, where the appendages attached themselves to the body of the figurines.

And I know you use DiPeso for your rejection of the ceramics, because only DiPeso suggested suspicious circumstances, and you do this while ignoring the other archaeologists who have spent much more time and effort researching the figurines than DiPeso. And Dr. Eduardo Noguera, who was the Director of Prehispanic Monuments counters DiPeso, and states, that his rejection was based entirely on his inability to explain the reptile forms. And of all the other archaeologist that have worked the site, only DiPeso has claimed fraud. And all of DiPeso claims have been clearly disputed.

Do you know for a fact that the ceramic pieces that were shown in the picture were the broken ones?



and this is the difference between you and I. I don't take the word of one man as fact. So you assume that because you do that i must also, this assumption is wrong. No matter who said what, there is a mutually understood suspicious-ness of the figures.

I canot say for sure that the figuriens pictured were broken.

I do know that there are a number that represent some of the dinosaurs that we see depicted today. I might also add, that untill the 1990s sauropods were not depicted as having spines, this was finally understood by Czerkas discovery in 1992. Yet the El Toro collection shows sauropods which were unearth in the 1940s and 1950s with spines. The Julsrud figurines shows us accurate dinosaur anatomy that remained unknow until 1992. It is doubtful that anyone back then had more advanced knowledge of dinosaur anatomy than the science of that day.

And if DiPiso is not the man you place your trust in as to the suspicious-ness of the figuriens, can you give me the name of the the person you base your belief on? Because it was DiPiso (alone) who make the claim of suspicious-ness of the figurines. All others who were involved in the dig including other archaeologists do not believe the figurines are frauds.

I canot say for sure that the figuriens pictured were broken.

I do know that there are a number that represent some of the dinosaurs that we see depicted today.

I might also add, that untill the 1990s sauropods were not depicted as having spines, this was finally understood by Czerkas discovery in 1992. Yet the El Toro collection shows sauropods which were unearth in the 1940s and 1950s with spines.

The Julsrud figurines shows us accurate dinosaur anatomy that remained unknow until 1992. It is doubtful that anyone back then had more advanced knowledge of dinosaur anatomy than the science of that day.

And if DiPiso is not the man you place your trust in as to the suspicious-ness of the figuriens, can you give me the name of the the person you base your belief on? Because it was DiPiso (alone) who make the claim of suspicious-ness of the figurines. All others who were involved in the dig including other archaeologists do not believe the figurines are frauds.

Creationist Harun Yahya Offers Prize For Fossil Proof Of Evolution
Monday, 29 September 2008 / The Independent

Here you go:

List of transitional fossils: Information from Answers.com




Where do I go to collect my prize?

Harun Yahya - An Invitation to The Truth All links work, everybody can read all web sites about Darwinism, you can also watch this film

RICHARD DAWKINS CANNOT GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF BENEFICIAL MUTATION:

HarunYahya.Tv - RICHARD DAWKINS CANNOT GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF BENEFICIAL MUTATION

Where's the rest of it?

Not only that, but how do we know they are even in the same room?

If this is all you have to offer you need to go back to the drawing board

*I* can give several examples of beneficial mutation. I'm sure Dawkins can.

Yup, I am just reading up on it now. Unfortunately our colleague here has never seen a scientific site or book before, only propaganda, and that is not a place near Uganda

Here's another example of an organism evolving a beneficial mutation.

Bacteria make major evolutionary shift in the lab - life - 09 June 2008 - New Scientist