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Putin to Rice, Gates: Missile Plan Risks

 
 
mlurp
 
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2007 12:04 pm
Yea this is an real friend. beware Russia as it will be the bear of the north that the Bible warns of.
FOXNEWS.COM HOME > POLITICS

Putin to Rice, Gates: Missile Plan Risks Relations
Friday, October 12, 2007

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MOSCOW ? Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday warned that U.S.-Russia relations could be at stake if the United States pursues missile defense systems in Eastern Europe.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Robert Gates arrived at the president?s country house outside Moscow at 10:30 a.m. for the meeting with Putin, who showed up 40 minutes later.

"Of course, we can sometime in the future decide that some anti-missile defense system should be established somewhere on the moon,? Putin said, ?but before we reach such arrangements, we will lose the opportunity of fixing some particular arrangements between us."

The Russian leader also threatened to pull his country out a Cold War-era treaty limiting intermediate-range missiles unless other countries sign on to the agreement.

"If we are unable to attain such a goal" Putin said, "it will be difficult for us to keep within the framework of the treaty in a situation when other countries do develop such weapons systems, and among those are countries in our near vicinity."

Gates said Washington was interested in limiting missile proliferation in Iran.

The Russian government sees the U.S. missile defense plan, which Washington describes as a hedge against the threat of missile attack from Iran, as a worrisome step toward weakening Russian security. It has been a longstanding dispute, and Putin's remarks seemed to raise the level of tensions.

"We have an ambitious agenda of security issues that concern both of us, including, as you suggest, development of missile systems by others in the neighborhood, I would say in particular Iran," Gates said.

"Even though we have our differences, we have a great deal in common because that which unites us in trying to deal with the threats of terrorism, of proliferation, are much greater than the issues that divide us," Rice said.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said at the start of the meeting that the Americans had presented "detailed proposals" to Putin on missile defense and arms control and a treaty on reducing conventional forces in Europe.

He offered no details but said the Russian government is ready to seek compromise, noting in particular Putin's eagerness to expand the treaty on intermediate missiles.

But both he and Rice said the two countries were committed to bridging those gaps.

"I know that we don't always see eye-to-eye on every element of the solutions to these issues," Rice said. "Nonetheless, I believe we will do this in a constructive spirit, that we will make progress during these talks as we continue to pursue cooperation."

"We will try to find ways to cooperate," Rice responded, looking at notes she had jotted while frowning at Putin as he spoke from what appeared to be a prepared text.

Referring to the Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces treaty negotiated between the United States and the former Soviet Union, Putin said it must be applied to other countries, including those "located in our near vicinity." He did not mention any by name, but in response, Gates said Washington was interested in limiting missile proliferation in Iran.

Putin said the treaty must be made "universal in nature."

The pact eliminated the deployment of Soviet and American ballistic missiles of intermediate range and was a landmark step in arms control just two years before the fall of the Berlin Wall and later the breakup of the Soviet Union.

"We need to convince other (countries) to assume the same level of obligation as assumed by the Russian Federation and the United States," Putin said. "If we are unable to obtain such a goal ... it will be difficult for us to keep within the framework of the treaty in a situation where other countries do develop such weapon systems, and among those are countries located in our near vicinity."

Gates said the Pentagon was ready to intensify a dialogue on the matter.

"We have an ambitious agenda of security issues that concern both of us, including, as you suggest, development of missile systems by others in the neighborhood ? I would say in particular, Iran," he said.

Gates did not directly comment on the missile defense dispute.

Putin also has threatened to suspend Russian adherence to another arms control treaty, known as the Conventional Forces in Europe pact, which limits deployments of conventional military forces. Moscow wants it to be revised in ways that thus far have been unacceptable to U.S. and European signatories.

On missile defense, Putin was particularly pointed in his remarks, in which sought to lay out his view of what Rice and Gates should be discussing with Lavrov and Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov.

"We hope that in the process of such complex and multi-faceted talks you will not be forcing forward your relations with the eastern European countries," the president said. He then made his remark about the possibility of one day putting a missile defense system on the moon.

Shortly before the talks with Putin, Lavrov had strolled into the house's billiards room, where American reporters had gathered, for a cigarette break. He was asked whether he expected any breakthroughs in the talks and offered a perhaps prophetic quip.

"Breaks, definitely. Through or down, I don't know," he said.

The Pentagon plans to install 10 missile interceptors in Poland, linked to a missile tracking radar in the Czech Republic. The Pentagon says the system will provide some protection in Europe and beyond for long-range missiles launched from Iran, but Russia believes the system is a step toward undermining the deterrent value of its nuclear arsenal.

Rice told reporters on Thursday on her flight to Moscow that the U.S. would go ahead with the program as planned.

"We've been very clear that we need the Czech and Polish sites," she said, although there's "considerable interest" in Russian ideas for cooperation such as sharing a Soviet-era tracking station in Azerbaijan.

FOX News? Jennifer Griffin and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
FOXNews.com - Putin to Rice, Gates: Missile Plan Risks Relations - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,462 • Replies: 19
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Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2007 12:10 pm
@mlurp,
this is a deal between ourselves and countries not named Russia, it's none of thier buisness
Freeman15
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2007 12:22 pm
@Silverchild79,
That's Russia's backyard. We threw a fit when Krushchev wanted missiles in Cuba, but now expect the Russians to be fine with missiles in Poland and the Czech Republic? Huh?

I agree that it shouldn't be Russia's concern, since nations are free to act independently, but we don't need this shield, and it only divides us from Russia, whose friendship and cooperation we NEED to compete against China globally. This is a really, really dumb idea, and we will regret making an adversary of Vladimir Putin.
0 Replies
 
Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2007 12:29 pm
@mlurp,
so you're afriad of Putin?
wvpeach
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2007 01:39 pm
@Silverchild79,
Putin left rice and gates wait 45 minutes in front of reporters for all over the globe that in itself is a slap in the face.

Russia will not allow the US to expand its control over the world much further.

China can be counted on to back Russia and Iran

And this time they all have nuclear weapons , there will be a even playing field.

[SIZE="4"]God help us all![/SIZE]
Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2007 02:30 pm
@mlurp,
I'll take Israel the US and the UK over China Russia and Iran anyday, consider the economical ability to sustain war on both sides. And missle defense works, nukes won't matter... at least theirs won't

Read the RAND report on China's military, navy and airforce are weaksauce, they still have aircraft in active service that were built in the 50's, I'm talking fighter aircraft. Not only that but their SAM cabability will only protext roughly 25% of their major cities...
Freeman15
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2007 02:41 pm
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;41318 wrote:
I'll take Israel the US and the UK over China Russia and Iran anyday, consider the economical ability to sustain war on both sides. And missle defense works, nukes won't matter... at least theirs won't

Read the RAND report on China's military, navy and airforce are weaksauce, they still have aircraft in active service that were built in the 50's, I'm talking fighter aircraft. Not only that but their SAM cabability will only protext roughly 25% of their major cities...



We aren't talking war. Conventional war won't happen between these six countries unless the US instigates it.

Economically, the US, UK, and Israel have NOTHING. China has the market pretty much cornered on unskilled labor, Russia has the largest natural gas and second largest oil reserves in the world, and Iran also has petroleum. The US and UK are service-sector economies that can't sustain themselves in the long run (see budget deficits). Russia isn't big on Chinese relations right now, and if our elected leaders would stop acting like idiots, we could gain access to Russia's oil and maybe check the growing Chinese economy. Piss off Russia, and we'll find ourselves out of luck if the dollar falls much further.
0 Replies
 
Freeman15
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2007 02:41 pm
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;41314 wrote:
so you're afriad of Putin?


No, I admire Putin. He's made Russia great again.
Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2007 03:05 pm
@Freeman15,
Freeman15;41320 wrote:
No, I admire Putin. He's made Russia great again.


why would you, as an American, celebrate the resurgence of one of our greatest threats? Hitler was great at killing Jews but you won't catch me applauding his efficiency as President...
mlurp
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2007 03:38 pm
@Silverchild79,
Freeman15 needs a rest he has gone ballistic. O rthe drugs he suggested he might need earlier. looooooool
Looking for Rand Documents only coming up with theses items. So could you post your link Silverchild79?

Rand Report Warns of Conflict With China
Charles R. Smith
Wednesday, June 20, 2001 < RAND Corporation Provides Objective Research Services and Public Policy Analysis >

RAND Congressional International Affairs Newsletter

This has several links to topics in 2006 RAND Corporation Provides Objective Research Services and Public Policy Analysis

Lots here and the first is about the advances China has made militarily but must use Adobe reader. RAND | Reports & Bookstore | Authors | C | Roger Cliff
Well back to the Situation Room and Lou Dobbs after. Later
If we are going off thread it is alright with me as I started this. Not that you need my permission. loooool
0 Replies
 
Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2007 03:56 pm
@mlurp,
it might have been this

RAND | Monographs | Modernizing China’s Military: Opportunities and Constraints

last time I looked at it in depth was 2002, apperently now you have to buy copies of the reports, they used to be free :-(

basically China will become a military power within the next 40 years, but right now they have no Navy and an extremely ourdated airforce

Russia has some stuff, it's aging, but they lack the economy to actually fund a war machine.

Iran's economy is so bad their nuclear ambition is literally STARVING their populace
mlurp
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2007 05:15 pm
@Silverchild79,
I noticed this portion as it stood out QUOTE: this study projects future growth in Chinese government expenditures as a whole and the military in particular, evaluates the current and likely future capabilities of China’s defense industries, and compares likely future Chinese expenditures on defense with recent END QUOTE so much more than all the rest. What I have seen on their capabilities is far different that what you have stated. But I have no links at the moment. I doubt they are that far behind. besides Rand has connections to the Senate foreign Relations committee/trilateral commission don't they? I can't recall myself. And thanks for the link.
0 Replies
 
mlurp
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Oct, 2007 05:18 pm
@wvpeach,
wvpeach;41316 wrote:
Putin left rice and gates wait 45 minutes in front of reporters for all over the globe that in itself is a slap in the face.

Russia will not allow the US to expand its control over the world much further.

China can be counted on to back Russia and Iran

And this time they all have nuclear weapons , there will be a even playing field.

[SIZE="4"]God help us all![/SIZE]

He, will help His, own wvpeach, so don't worry dear lady.
0 Replies
 
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Oct, 2007 12:18 am
@mlurp,
Sure, the bible warns us about "Russia". It also warns us (Exodus) about children not obeying parents and requires such progeny to be put to death. Likewise for not observersing the Sabbath: Death. So lets try not to look at the bible for sensible advice. Re. Putin's angst at our missles, remember what we did whrn the Soviets put missles in Cuba. Wht would we expect Russia to react any different if our idiot of a President decides to unilaterally kill all the good that has come from the end of the cold war. As if we don't have enough to wprry about already. Idiota.
mlurp
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Oct, 2007 11:45 am
@Adam Bing,
Adam Bing;41391 wrote:
Sure, the bible warns us about "Russia". It also warns us (Exodus) about children not obeying parents and requires such progeny to be put to death. Likewise for not observersing the Sabbath: Death. So lets try not to look at the bible for sensible advice. Re. Putin's angst at our missles, remember what we did whrn the Soviets put missles in Cuba. Wht would we expect Russia to react any different if our idiot of a President decides to unilaterally kill all the good that has come from the end of the cold war. As if we don't have enough to wprry about already. Idiota.

What or where did I say I was surprised by Putin not wanting this action. And if you choose to not use the Bible so be it. That is your choice. I believe in Free Will Of Choice. I said that the Bible warns us! I use the new testament for most reading now. I have read it all several times. But being born again I use the new portion myself. And the Prophets to stay on top of it all.
So your saying throw it away. like so many tried to do in the past 2,000 years. but yet it is still here same as the Jewish Nation. And to me that fact alone would (if I didn't believe) would make me wonder and change to believe in Christ.
I prefer mlurp to idiot, if you don't mind.
Your first post and you show yourself so soon. looooooooooooooooooooooooooool God bless the weak minded.
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2007 06:54 pm
@mlurp,
I did not call you an idiot and sincerely apologize if it came across that way. The epithet - richly deserved even in the view of my friends from the far right - was meant for our President.

Re. the Bible, I have a diametrically opposite view to yours and consider it, as I consider the Koran or any other similar frozen rantings from the past, to be tremendously harmful to mankind. I have no problem 'exposing' myself thus on this blog.

But you have choosen to be born again most probably because you are a good man & I respect you for that. I may not agree with your choice, but I do respect you.

Now on to Russia. Its not a good thing we did my friend, deciding to put those missles at Russia's doorstep. Why? What madness prevails forcing us to unravel the peace with Russia so quickly following the cold war? Is Iraq not enough? Do we have more of our boys and girls - barring the Bush twins of course god forbid - to kill in other fields? Among my favourite pagans are the Greeks who said "Whom the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad". One hopes & waits for the Jeffersonian Repubic to kick-in and put an end to this madness of a pitiful man & his cohort.
0 Replies
 
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2007 08:19 pm
RedOct;41393 wrote:
So, what's new about the US leadership's foresight?

"U.S. military planners quietly have stepped up a review of alternatives in case the Turkish government restricts U.S. access to Turkish airspace or cuts off access to the air base at Incirlik, Turkey, CNN has learned.

Turkey has threatened such action after congressional moves to declare that the killing of Armenians by Ottoman Turks in World War I was "genocide."

Turkey -- now a NATO member and a key U.S. ally in the war on terror -- accepts Armenians were killed but calls it a massacre during a chaotic time, not an organized campaign of genocide."


The Armenian massacre was genocide. The Turks need to face up to it. But they won't. Just as the Japanese won't face up to Nanking, or Americans to what we really did to the native Indians, or the Aussies on how they cleaned up the Aborigines or the Indians on how they recently massacred 3000 muslims in cold blood in Gujarat. Human nature.

Re. present politics, the Turks do have an issue & I won't comment on its rights & wrongs. Their kurdish problem appears to be exacerbated by our Iraq situation as it allows the movement of kurdish insurgents across the border with impunity. The Turkish army is itching for a border 'incident' to happen. Lets see what happens when that happens.
mlurp
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2007 09:04 pm
@Adam Bing,
Adam I think the point is about timing. Just about every country has done something that has had real bad results for some group of people. Like in Dar fur, Chad or S. Africa the South American banana wars etc, etc. But I think we are talking or I was about the timing of this vote in our house of Representatives. I mean 90 years later and now we need to poit it out? Come on people where is the wisdon here? And by here I mean on this board to!
Adam I understand now he is a nut case for sure and many more like him in D.C.
But in your own words meant I am sure about another but applied here by me. Quote: other similar frozen rantings from the past, to be tremendously harmful to mankind End Quote but I add, or American troops in Iraq. The timing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2007 09:12 pm
@mlurp,
mlurp;41589 wrote:
Adam I think the point is about timing. Just about every country has done something that has had real bad results for some group of people. Like in Dar fur, Chad or S. Africa the South American banana wars etc, etc. But I think we are talking or I was about the timing of this vote in our house of Representatives. I mean 90 years later and now we need to poit it out? Come on people where is the wisdon here? And by here I mean on this board to!


I am in total agreement with your point. Absolutely. Yes, the Turks massacred the Armenians but pointing it out now simply compromises an already fraught situation in and around Iraq. Anyways who said Pelosi was astute? Now you see the dilemma we atheist "lefties" are in? If I have to choose between the Republicans and the Democrats this coming election, its simpler to just shoot myself.
mlurp
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2007 09:28 pm
@Adam Bing,
So true and only because they are names of one party. The elitist NWO people who run the show from the top and have already decided who is going to win while we talk about it. They wanted Bush the second time around and got him. They wanted to split the parties and got the voting public to change over to the lying Dem's and got it. I know I am not the only one with both eyes open! So where is the support for the truth? or can't others see that high up?
0 Replies
 
 

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