Illegal Immigration

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Disclaimer: Let us not resort to name calling nor personal insults. IMO, those are the lowest forms of communication. You do not need to be an American to discuss, I encourage all people to comment.

Scenario:

You have just been elected to the US Senate and your primary goal is Immigration Reform.

Some questions to consider:
Which specific issue regarding illegal immigration would you address first?

What policies would you try to pass in Congress?

Who would fund immigration?

How does America benefit from illegal immigration? How is it detrimental to American society?

How, in your own world view, would you describe the typical immigrant?

What does the inscription at the base of the Statue of Liberty mean to you?
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Aside from the last question. You do not have to answer each question specifically, but these questions may help encourage debate.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,751 • Replies: 20

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@chuckc cv,

Quote:

Which specific issue regarding illegal immigration would you address first?

I would address the ease with which illegals enter the US. I would first implement real enforcement of present law , since I don't think we need more laws.
I would also try to get rid of the PC stuff that says we MUST allow them in and allow them to stay here without even trying to assimilate like immigrants of the past , and like the many Asian immigrants of the last several decades , who seem to come here for a better life and do everything in their power to play by the rules and succeed.

Quote:

What policies would you try to pass in Congress?

I would sponsor strengthening the deportation of illegal immigrants and would support legislation eliminating the "anchor baby" situation.

Quote:

Who would fund immigration?

What do you mean by "fund" immigration? Do you think we ought to pay them to enter the US? Those who enter legally usually fund themselves and become contributing members of our country rather than "takers" of welfare and "funding"!

Quote:

How does America benefit from illegal immigration? How is it detrimental to American society?

Some businesses benefit by getting cheap labor that they don't have to be responsible for , nor do they have to worry about income tax paperwork , etc. The country as a whole does not benefit , especially when you consider the burden on society these illegals often become , needing free healthcare and free schooling ( free because they often don't pay any property taxes) .

Quote:

How, in your own world view, would you describe the typical immigrant?

We have two distinct types of immigrants to consider here. Legal and illegal . It is foolish to try to categorize them any other way . Legal immigrants are similar in most ways to most of our forebears that were immigrants at some time in the past. Usually good people with a true desire to follow a path to a better life by being Americans by choice .
Many ( and I won't say ALL ) illegal immigrants are not here for the same reasons at all. Of course they come here to work and make money to send home and send for their families , and usually are decent and very hard-working individuals but they have already broken one law by sneaking in , and that in itself is a mark against them. I realize immigration by the proper channels is not easy , but when have we been taught that the easy way is the best way? That which we have to struggle to achieve is ever more precious to us than that which we have stolen or broken rules and law to gain.

The inscription certainly does not mean we should allow everyone to come here at their will and not become Americans in heart and mind!
The language of the poet should not be taken literally . Just those few years ago language was quite flowerly , especially on statues , art , and poetry than it is now. America has always been and will always be a place for immigrants to strive to be part of , wherever they come from , and from whatever conditions they have endured in their home country .

2 Replies

@chuckc cv,

I would continue to be bothered by my suspicion that what many really want in this case is union with Mexico. Having lived in Latin America, I consider such an objective horrifying and worthy of the greatest opposition Americans can muster.

0 Replies

@chuckc cv,

I am not all that well informed on the subject of illegals in this country. Perhaps someone could explain to me why it is so difficult to enter this country legally? Thousands do it everyday.
If I were to illegally enter anothers home and then demand that they allow me to live there because I successfully hid in their attic for a few months without being detected, would that not seem ridicules to you?

2 Replies

@Dmizer,

Dmizer;14618 wrote:

I am not all that well informed on the subject of illegals in this country. Perhaps someone could explain to me why it is so difficult to enter this country legally? Thousands do it everyday.
If I were to illegally enter anothers home and then demand that they allow me to live there because I successfully hid in their attic for a few months without being detected, would that not seem ridicules to you?

Legal immigration cost about $1000+ dollars, requires a good amount of paperwork, and time. Illegals want to skirt this and go straight to benefiting from what America has to offer. Illegal immigrants should be sent back to where they came from and thrown in their own countries jails.

1 Reply

@chuckc cv,

here's the nature of the problem

when you give someone desperate an inch, they'll take a mile.

You have people who's fist action on American soil was a crime, demanding their constitutional rights

traditionally criminals do not have "all" the rights a law abiding citizen has, that's how the justic system works

but if we attempt to punish them for their crime we're "racists", that name is still such a hot button issue that as a community we back off.

The real problem isn't about race, I think we can agree that Sweedish illegals are just as disagreeable as their hispanic counterparts.

My question is why aren't we inforcing the law? What's wrong with termperarily detaining all of these marchers to verify their legal status? They detain large groups of kids peacfully assembling all the time for various reasons.

Is the system broken? Yes, but worse then that we're not even enforcing the current system and if we can't do that then NO system will work

1 Reply

@Curmudgeon,

Curmudgeon;14571 wrote:

What do you mean by "fund" immigration? Do you think we ought to pay them to enter the US? Those who enter legally usually fund themselves and become contributing members of our country rather than "takers" of welfare and "funding"! .

Everyone, great posts. I'd liked to read more, then reply to specific issue.

Great question. Fund? Pay for? I'm not sure what I meant by that question, honestly. I just tried to come up with questions off the top of my head, didn't really need spec answers, but I did ask. I guess, I was thinking about finances and money. That's all. Sorry I cannot give you a definite answer. Maybe I should remove the question from the original post.

0 Replies

@chuckc cv,

Do you think we ought to pay them to enter the US? Those who enter legally usually fund themselves and become contributing members of our country rather than "takers" of welfare and "funding"!

However, I can reply to yours. Maybe to specify your question. NO, we should not pay for ANYONE to enter our country illegally. Even if I owned a scientific research company and needed a foreign national who knew more about my specifc research than me, he would have to obtain a work visa.

Regarding your statement, I agree completely. I support the view that greedy people who exploit our American social services need to be held accountable.

0 Replies

@Curmudgeon,

Curmudgeon;14571 wrote:

The inscription certainly does not mean we should allow everyone to come here at their will and not become Americans in heart and mind!
The language of the poet should not be taken literally . Just those few years ago language was quite flowerly , especially on statues , art , and poetry than it is now. America has always been and will always be a place for immigrants to strive to be part of , wherever they come from , and from whatever conditions they have endured in their home country .

I completely disagree. Everyone has their own view of poetry, if you truly want to know what he means, you must ask him. I would take it literally. I would say America has been the most attractive country to live in, because of the literal meaning of that quote. And perhaps because of my definition, and I believe the country we pledge to be, "freedom for all, provided no civic laws are broken"

0 Replies

@Silverchild79,

Silverchild79;14622 wrote:

here's the nature of the problem

when you give someone desperate an inch, they'll take a mile.

You have people who's fist action on American soil was a crime, demanding their constitutional rights

traditionally criminals do not have "all" the rights a law abiding citizen has, that's how the justic system works

but if we attempt to punish them for their crime we're "racists", that name is still such a hot button issue that as a community we back off.

The real problem isn't about race, I think we can agree that Sweedish illegals are just as disagreeable as their hispanic counterparts.

My question is why aren't we inforcing the law? What's wrong with termperarily detaining all of these marchers to verify their legal status? They detain large groups of kids peacfully assembling all the time for various reasons.

Is the system broken? Yes, but worse then that we're not even enforcing the current system and if we can't do that then NO system will work

I completely agree. As to your questions (My apologies, I dont have the patience to learn the proper quoting techniques right now)

Q: My question is why aren't we inforcing the law?

A: Our court system is overloaded. Our prisons are overcrowded. Low priority crime. To keep our prices low, we need cheap labor.

Q: What's wrong with termperarily detaining all of these marchers to verify their legal status?

A: I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. IMO, they are suspects in a criminal investigation. Whose responsibilty is to do that? LAPD, FBI, INS. I would say INS, but my knowledge is limited and that is opinion not based on fact.

Q. Is the system broken? Yes. I would expand that most American social service systems are broken.

YOUR A:
Yes, but worse then that we're not even enforcing the current system and if we can't do that then NO system will work.

MY A:
I cannot totally agree except with Yes.

I would ask you this, Do we have the resources to strictly enforce illegal immigration? If so, would strictly enforcing the legal immigration laws deplete those resources allocated for other, more serious crimes?

I have the theory, What if, seriously, we employed immigration officers at our hospitals, to verify status? I do not support denying ANYONE medical attention in cases of life and death, but if the circumstance is not life and death, I would deny them service and deport them. Yes, even for a broken arm. Minor, major, not life threatening, you in the United States illegally, you cannot have free health care, period.

I am in this country legally, I am a US Citizen, I cannot have free health care. (Not totally true, I can go to free clinics, but not really the point) Simply, it does not make common sense.

1 Reply

@chuckc cv,

We are being over-run by Mexico. In a century, we will be part of it. It's a tragedy in the making. The U.S. is 'living space' to Mexico, just as Russia was to Nazi Germany, and China, to Imperialist Japan. We're in deep trouble.

One sad outcome will be the emergence of protracted racial conflicts. Even dedicated non-racists will get sucked into them. Few will have a choice. At some point, Whites will have to fight for their very survival, and Blacks will rebel against Brown Power, their new oppressor.

0 Replies

@chuckc cv,

chuckc;14684 wrote:

Q: My question is why aren't we inforcing the law?

A: Our court system is overloaded. Our prisons are overcrowded. Low priority crime.

I addressed this problem fully in my Death Penalty post

1 Reply

@Silverchild79,

Silverchild79;14688 wrote:

I addressed this problem fully in my Death Penalty post

Pardon my ignorance.

0 Replies

@chuckc cv,

lol, forgiven :-P

we actually agree on allot of things, your either quite a sharp knife or have completely lost it... I'm still not sure which end of that equation I'm on...

1 Reply

@Silverchild79,

Silverchild79;14715 wrote:

lol, forgiven :-P

we actually agree on allot of things, your either quite a sharp knife or have completely lost it... I'm still not sure which end of that equation I'm on...

I'd say sharp knife. Yes, I think we agree a lot.

Maybe you can decide based on "how I see the world":
I see PEOPLE as PEOPLE first, period. Until I hear their view on issues or know something about them. Sure we all label: religion, race, country, whatever. If we look to people's actual view, maybe imagine how they would see it, then we can openly debate and maybe discover change. To ME doesnt matter. We are all PEOPLE first, looking for the same things, food, shelter, safety. (Some people see through the eyes of evil they choose murder, rape, genocide etctct I dont chose that view)

For you and I, I would say we agree primarily on the way we see the military. I've never been in the military. I admire the men and women of our arm services for their courage. You guys, pledge in public to DIE for our country and some do! Grant it, if a foreign military power ever invaded our country, I would quickly learn how to shoot a gun. I think it is CRIMINAL how our politicians bicker over, who's this, who's that, what party, blah,blah, blah when America's children are dying every day in a foreign country. Maybe some non-Americans. I've heard there are non-citizens fighting in our military, is that true?

And hey, man, if you want to call me liberal, Catholic, Christian, Muslim, Hindi, A Louisiana Dumb ass, New Orleans A-hole, conservative based on my views. No worries. I'm not gonna call ya out on it everytime. Insult my planet, my country, my family, my hometown, ME I'm fighting!!

1 Reply

@chuckc cv,

chuckc;14570 wrote:

Disclaimer: Let us not resort to name calling nor personal insults. IMO, those are the lowest forms of communication. You do not need to be an American to discuss, I encourage all people to comment.

Scenario:

You have just been elected to the US Senate and your primary goal is Immigration Reform.

Some questions to consider:
Which specific issue regarding illegal immigration would you address first?

What policies would you try to pass in Congress?

Who would fund immigration?

How does America benefit from illegal immigration? How is it detrimental to American society?

How, in your own world view, would you describe the typical immigrant?

What does the inscription at the base of the Statue of Liberty mean to you?
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Aside from the last question. You do not have to answer each question specifically, but these questions may help encourage debate.

Quote:

Which specific issue regarding illegal immigration would you address first?

Secure the border

Quote:

What policies would you try to pass in Congress?

Enforcement of the laws that are already there.

Quote:

Who would fund immigration?

The people who have always funded it, the American tax payer.

Quote:

How does America benefit from illegal immigration?

IMO the only element it benefits is the criminal element.

Quote:

How is it detrimental to American society?

In 1986 it was posed that there were 3 million illegals in the US. Reagan gave them amnesty. Now there are 12 million illegals. Back then it costed us million, what do you think it costs now?

Quote:

How, in your own world view, would you describe the typical immigrant?

The person would come here legally, wait in line like everybody else. Learn english, know how the government works and know who your allegence is to. If your flag doesn't have stars and stripes, your not an American. They also would have the desire to assimilate.

Quote:

What does the inscription at the base of the Statue of Liberty mean to you?
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

All this could be yours if you come here Legally!

0 Replies

@Dmizer,

Dmizer;14618 wrote:

I am not all that well informed on the subject of illegals in this country. Perhaps someone could explain to me why it is so difficult to enter this country legally? Thousands do it everyday.
If I were to illegally enter anothers home and then demand that they allow me to live there because I successfully hid in their attic for a few months without being detected, would that not seem ridicules to you?

And while he was in there he titied up a little, and is willing to take out the trash and wash your toilets at a very reasonable cost. Does he get a cott or does he get the boot?

0 Replies

@chuckc cv,

chuckc;14717 wrote:

And hey, man, if you want to call me liberal, Catholic, Christian, Muslim, Hindi, A Louisiana Dumb ass, New Orleans A-hole, conservative based on my views. No worries. I'm not gonna call ya out on it everytime. Insult my planet, my country, my family, my hometown, ME I'm fighting!!

Welcome to the good fight. We have been waiting for you, LOL.

1 Reply

@Drnaline,

Drnaline;14730 wrote:

Welcome to the good fight. We have been waiting for you, LOL.

BAHAHAHHA - Thanks. I'm on vacation for the next ten days, no computers. I'll be checking back later, look forward to the debates. Peace.

0 Replies

@92b16vx,

92b16vx;14621 wrote:

Legal immigration cost about $1000+ dollars, requires a good amount of paperwork, and time. Illegals want to skirt this and go straight to benefiting from what America has to offer. Illegal immigrants should be sent back to where they came from and thrown in their own countries jails.

I agree with you, however there are alot of "Rich" people who use the illegals as cheap servants or slaves depending on one's view point.

In Canada we had a former Saudi couple bring in an illegal and they kept her locked up for years, she was regularly beaten and raped by the man. One day after a vicious beating she managed to escape and flee for help. When in court this couple was contrite because they were practicing Muslims and forced slavory is allowed in their Wahabbi form of Islam. They really couldn't see what they did as "Wrong". Freaking scary stuff.

1 Reply

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