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Poll: Hindsight and Drilling in Anwar

 
 
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2008 10:05 am
So back in 2000 Bush wanted to drill in Anwar and Congress said no. Most experts believe America could increase it's own oil production by 20% (we import roughly 60% of our oil). The idea was that by supplying more of our own oil we would be less energy dependent and pay less. Bush also wanted to build another refinery, that was also shut down.

let's fast forward 8 years

Today Fuel costs are at an all time high, so much so that even rice is becoming un-affordable to many in the world. Corn is more expensive as Ethanol production tried to become more affordable and abundant, but it's becomming painfully obvious that in the short term what we need is more supply to match demand.

Knowing this, and knowing that eight years later anwar could be at a high level of production, should we have drilled? Fuel costs could be lower in America today, simple economics tell you this.

What's your opinion, more importantly, why?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 947 • Replies: 7
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Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2008 10:36 am
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;57104 wrote:
So back in 2000 Bush wanted to drill in Anwar and Congress said no. Most experts believe America could increase it's own oil production by 20% (we import roughly 60% of our oil). The idea was that by supplying more of our own oil we would be less energy dependent and pay less. Bush also wanted to build another refinery, that was also shut down.

let's fast forward 8 years

Today Fuel costs are at an all time high, so much so that even rice is becoming un-affordable to many in the world. Corn is more expensive as Ethanol production tried to become more affordable and abundant, but it's becomming painfully obvious that in the short term what we need is more supply to match demand.

Knowing this, and knowing that eight years later anwar could be at a high level of production, should we have drilled? Fuel costs could be lower in America today, simple economics tell you this.

What's your opinion, more importantly, why?


Drilling in ANWR is a band aid on a bullet wound. It would not have stabilized the dollar, would not have stabilized the area where we get some of our dinos, would have not prevented other issues that caused oil to spike.

In the short term we need to put the hatchet in these fuel wasting vehicles we all love because carting around our family in the modern equivalent of the Partridge bus is HURTING US BADLY.

You want my opinion? Bring this madness on!!! I wanna see the soccer moms and nascar dads who squealed with joy as we headed along this downward spiral have to scrape and budget EFFECTIVELY just like the rest of us. I wanna see them BEGGING to trade that SUV in for a third of its KBB value.

You made that bed? Lie in it.
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Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2008 11:24 am
@Silverchild79,
I'm all for removing the free ride on fuel regulation that's given to large vehicles. The fact is unless you own a business and need it to make a living there's really no practical reason to own over a 1/2 ton truck. I'm sick of "apartment cowboys".

But drilling in Anwar would raise US production and therefore lower US price. I think we should do it but I think that's only one of the things that should be done to lower fuel prices. We need to offer more energy trust rebates for things like solar energy and rethink the way we produce energy on a basic level. Consider Americas fitness market. How many of us go to the gym and hop on a treadmill after work. Why can't those be hooked to generators?

I know that seems a bit creepy, people running on a treadmill to make energy but we need to get past that, you're using that energy regardless and it should be recycled. Then we should remove the pass that's given to large vehicles as I've said before and expand our rail system to take 18 wheeler's (lorry's scooby) off the road. By comparison a train gets over 400 miles to the gallon!

The solutions are there and they're simple, but until energy companies put the good of the nation above their profits we're hosed. Why do you think Bush always talks about Ethanol? Because it can be regulated, taxed and sold like gasoline. You can't do that with solar and wind energy generated at a residential level and they know it.
briansol
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2008 01:07 pm
@Silverchild79,
I want to stop commuting. there's 0 reason why i should have to come into the office every day.

more companies should think like this.
0 Replies
 
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2008 01:34 pm
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;57107 wrote:
I'm all for removing the free ride on fuel regulation that's given to large vehicles. The fact is unless you own a business and need it to make a living there's really no practical reason to own over a 1/2 ton truck. I'm sick of "apartment cowboys".


Therein lies our problem. "Apartment cowboys" as you like to call 'em.

Quote:
But drilling in Anwar would raise US production and therefore lower US price. I think we should do it but I think that's only one of the things that should be done to lower fuel prices. We need to offer more energy trust rebates for things like solar energy and rethink the way we produce energy on a basic level. Consider Americas fitness market. How many of us go to the gym and hop on a treadmill after work. Why can't those be hooked to generators?


The answer is not raising production. That's what we've done for ages. We used to constantly build refineries and drill for our own oil... now we just pressure OPEC to make more. Well, that isn't working much anymore.

Drilling in ANWR would bump our production by a slight margin over a long period of time. Building costs, drilling and finding the oil, pipelines, etc. etc. etc. so on and so forth.

This would, of course, be a great reason for a little extra pinch at the pump. Gotta pay for this somehow! Then when they get the bastard online, you're back to the nice lower price you were paying before they started drilling.

Quote:
I know that seems a bit creepy, people running on a treadmill to make energy but we need to get past that, you're using that energy regardless and it should be recycled. Then we should remove the pass that's given to large vehicles as I've said before and expand our rail system to take 18 wheeler's (lorry's scooby) off the road. By comparison a train gets over 400 miles to the gallon!


Sadly that is an infrastructure upgrade that America cannot afford... primarily because we're in the middle of a "conflict" and the majority of our funds are being shoveled in that direction.

Our rail systems need upgrading, our power grid is HORRIBLY in need of upgrading (bring ALL the nuclear reactors online), our highways and bridges are literally falling apart. The mess left from Katrina is still there. How about that 9/11 monument? And those are the things on the 'front burner'. So many other things are a mess... Two words: Space Shuttle.

I'm sorry, this is the Liberal barking, but we have no money because Iraq needs a democracy.

Quote:
The solutions are there and they're simple, but until energy companies put the good of the nation above their profits we're hosed. Why do you think Bush always talks about Ethanol? Because it can be regulated, taxed and sold like gasoline. You can't do that with solar and wind energy generated at a residential level and they know it.


Efficiency is key. The individual consumer needs to actively spend and use less. Remember, if we're buying, they're selling. We need to start reducing energy consumption at the personal level. Yes, buy CFLs. Yes, buy a compact. Yes, buy Energy Star appliances. Yes, recycle. Things like this are what's gonna be needed to solve this problem.
Drakej
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2008 08:57 pm
@Sabz5150,
Sabz5150;57109 wrote:
Therein lies our problem. "Apartment cowboys" as you like to call 'em.


Efficiency is key. The individual consumer needs to actively spend and use less. Remember, if we're buying, they're selling. We need to start reducing energy consumption at the personal level. Yes, buy CFLs. Yes, buy a compact. Yes, buy Energy Star appliances. Yes, recycle. Things like this are what's gonna be needed to solve this problem.


These things right here are the things that I think are going to make any real difference. We cannot rely on the Federal Government to make things happen and to get **** done. They spend so much time tripping over themselves and fighting each other they could really care less about the people that put them in power.

Oil companies have never given a rats ass about anyone but their off shore bank accounts. They will never change. They are going to milk this planet until it bleeds to death and then maybe they will think of diversifying but they will turn alternative fuels into a monopoly as well. That is how they survive. It is up to us, the little people to make positive changes in our own lives.
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 May, 2008 09:51 am
@Drakej,
Drakej;57271 wrote:
These things right here are the things that I think are going to make any real difference. We cannot rely on the Federal Government to make things happen and to get **** done. They spend so much time tripping over themselves and fighting each other they could really care less about the people that put them in power.

Oil companies have never given a rats ass about anyone but their off shore bank accounts. They will never change. They are going to milk this planet until it bleeds to death and then maybe they will think of diversifying but they will turn alternative fuels into a monopoly as well. That is how they survive. It is up to us, the little people to make positive changes in our own lives.


The energy bigwigs have us over the proverbial barrel... the energy we need costs so much that we cannot afford to make ourselves efficient at the consumer level. People see the price of CFLs for example, then freak out and buy the el-cheapo four pack of incandescents. Then there's the hyped up fear of mercury, which is truly overhyped... the amount of mercury in an average 23watt (100w equiv) is about the size of the ball in a fine-tip ballpoint pen. That's a fraction of a fraction of a percent that's inside a thermometer we regularly stuff in our mouths! Not to mention the Hg content of traditional fluorescent tubes we find ourselves beneath more often than not. It's like the trumped up fears of nuclear power... another thing holding us back from THAT huge amount of energy relief.

I admit, CFLs put a bit of a pinch on my wallet (not to mention that I bought dimmable CFLs which damn near triples the price at some stores), but when i see that monthly electric bill that doesn't even peak 70 bucks, even with four PCs running 24/7... I smile Smile Now THAT is the 'green' I'm talking about!
Curmudgeon
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 May, 2008 04:52 am
@Sabz5150,
Quote:
The energy bigwigs have us over the proverbial barrel... the energy we need costs so much that we cannot afford to make ourselves efficient at the consumer level. People see the price of CFLs for example, then freak out and buy the el-cheapo four pack of incandescents. Then there's the hyped up fear of mercury, which is truly overhyped... the amount of mercury in an average 23watt (100w equiv) is about the size of the ball in a fine-tip ballpoint pen. That's a fraction of a fraction of a percent that's inside a thermometer we regularly stuff in our mouths! Not to mention the Hg content of traditional fluorescent tubes we find ourselves beneath more often than not. It's like the trumped up fears of nuclear power... another thing holding us back from THAT huge amount of energy relief.

I admit, CFLs put a bit of a pinch on my wallet (not to mention that I bought dimmable CFLs which damn near triples the price at some stores), but when i see that monthly electric bill that doesn't even peak 70 bucks, even with four PCs running 24/7... I smile Now THAT is the 'green' I'm talking about!



Agreed. In our house we are trying to conserve. Using CFLs, turning off unused lights and appliances, etc. Believe it or not, these little things make a difference.
Saturday I am going to drive to the Dallas area ( about 500 miles round trip ) and will use my wife's Dodge Caliber rather than my old pickup, since the fuel mileage is twice as good. Mind you, I won't be as happy on the drive as I would in my old friend I have had for 10 years, but I will save money. Next time I might not even take the trip, if gas goes much higher. I am about at the point that I will curtail my driving a lot.
We Americans are SPOILED! We really don't have a clue about conservation.
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