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Iran continues rouge behavior, threatens the EU

 
 
Reply Thu 1 Nov, 2007 09:43 am
FOXNews.com - U.S. Pushes for More Sanctions, Iran Warns of Economic Retaliation - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

well if recent events are any track record of backbone there goes our European support, there's a reason why the stars on their flag are yellow
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,016 • Replies: 15
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92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Nov, 2007 09:49 am
@Silverchild79,
Quote:
The United States last week prohibited American companies from working with the Iranian companies linked to the Revolutionary Guards, an elite force with extensive holdings in oil, construction and other sectors. The U.S. also put pressure on international firms and banks not to deal with the companies.


What American companys were working with Quds forces? And I wonder how Halliburton is doing now that they aren't a U.S. company.
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2007 12:13 pm
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;43882 wrote:
FOXNews.com - U.S. Pushes for More Sanctions, Iran Warns of Economic Retaliation - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

well if recent events are any track record of backbone there goes our European support, there's a reason why the stars on their flag are yellow


Good to see you are still swallowing the Republican propaganda jugernaut. You just don't get it do you. What right have he Americans and the British for that matter to be in the Middle East? Oh yes all that loverly oil!!

The occupation, and that's what it is, of Iraq is illegal, and never sanctioned by the UN. We were all lead to belive that Iraq had these weapons that could wipe us all off the face of the planet. Did we find any, not a single friggin one.

So going on the track record of your governments truthfulness in these siruations who are we to believe? Bush? LOL, Ok I'd sooner sit in a nest of rattle snakes and trust them not to bite me than i would trust Bush.

So on that bombshell, do you then believe that Iran are trying to create nuclear weapons, and if they were what has it got to do with you? Nothing!! Your have this inflated ego that somehow you are the worlds policeman, well you ain't, No one asked you to be and no one needs you to be.

Well that's my little rant over, it just irritates me when only one side of a story is considered.
rugonnacry
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2007 12:59 pm
@Numpty,
Numpty;44591 wrote:
Good to see you are still swallowing the Republican propaganda jugernaut. You just don't get it do you. What right have he Americans and the British for that matter to be in the Middle East? Oh yes all that loverly oil!!

The occupation, and that's what it is, of Iraq is illegal, and never sanctioned by the UN. We were all lead to belive that Iraq had these weapons that could wipe us all off the face of the planet. Did we find any, not a single friggin one.

So going on the track record of your governments truthfulness in these siruations who are we to believe? Bush? LOL, Ok I'd sooner sit in a nest of rattle snakes and trust them not to bite me than i would trust Bush.

So on that bombshell, do you then believe that Iran are trying to create nuclear weapons, and if they were what has it got to do with you? Nothing!! Your have this inflated ego that somehow you are the worlds policeman, well you ain't, No one asked you to be and no one needs you to be.

Well that's my little rant over, it just irritates me when only one side of a story is considered.


All Irad was The Occupation was illegal... The UN and the US disagrees.
Freeman15
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2007 01:47 pm
@rugonnacry,
rugonnacry;44593 wrote:
All Irad was The Occupation was illegal... The UN and the US disagrees.


Actually, they don't disagree.

Constitutionally, the occupation is illegal because war was not declared.

The UN Security Council voted AGAINST military force in Iraq. Instead of abiding by the UN Charter, we chose to commit a crime and invade an independent nation that had failed to attack us.

Just wishing something to be true doesn't make it so.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2007 06:27 pm
@Freeman15,
QUOTE=Freeman15;44599]Actually, they don't disagree.

Constitutionally, the occupation is illegal because war was not declared.

The UN Security Council voted AGAINST military force in Iraq. Instead of abiding by the UN Charter, we chose to commit a crime and invade an independent nation that had failed to attack us.

Just wishing something to be true doesn't make it so.[/QUOTE]

:beerbangX::beerbangX::beerbangX::beerbangX:
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2007 06:42 pm
@92b16vx,
92b16vx;43885 wrote:
What American companys were working with Quds forces? And I wonder how Halliburton is doing now that they aren't a U.S. company.


Yet another cynical twist. :no:
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2007 06:44 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;44625 wrote:
QUOTE=Freeman15;44599]Actually, they don't disagree.

Constitutionally, the occupation is illegal because war was not declared.

The UN Security Council voted AGAINST military force in Iraq. Instead of abiding by the UN Charter, we chose to commit a crime and invade an independent nation that had failed to attack us.

Just wishing something to be true doesn't make it so.


:beerbangX::beerbangX::beerbangX::beerbangX:[/QUOTE]

The UN does not tell the US what to do. I don't pay taxes to have the UN tell my government how to spend my money.
markx15
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2007 06:50 pm
@Silverchild79,
Isn't your government a part of the UN? It is like calling off the elections and taking power by force when your candidate doesn't win. It was supposed to be the first step to an international government, but that is not in the interests of the USA now is it?
0 Replies
 
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2007 07:05 pm
@Pinochet73,
Quote:
=Pinochet73;44641

The UN does not tell the US what to do. I don't pay taxes to have the UN tell my government how to spend my money.


Weren't you the one who complained about Iran breaking UN sanctions?

you are a hypocrite of the highest order!
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2007 07:11 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;44657 wrote:
Weren't you the one who complained about Iran breaking UN sanctions?

you are a hypocrite of the highest order!


No, I wasn't, you unobservant person of the lowest order.:argue:
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2007 07:17 pm
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;44659 wrote:
No, I wasn't, you unobservant person of the lowest order.:argue:


well when i said that Iran wasn't the only country that was violating the rules set down by the UN, you accused me of defending Iran.....
0 Replies
 
Freeman15
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Nov, 2007 12:12 am
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;44641 wrote:
:beerbangX::beerbangX::beerbangX::beerbangX:

The UN does not tell the US what to do. I don't pay taxes to have the UN tell my government how to spend my money.


I agree, I'm all for removing the US from the UN and kicking them out of NYC. HOWEVER, the statement was that the war was legal under UN and US law, neither of which is true AT ALL.
0 Replies
 
rugonnacry
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Nov, 2007 12:54 pm
@Silverchild79,
UN Resolution 1441, 678, 687 is NOT my opinion it is that of the UN... International Law saying US going to Iraq was LEGAL... Just because you or I dont LIKE the war doesnt make it illegal.


As far as US law... JOINT house resolution signed October 16th 2002 authorizing the president to attack Iraq...


YOUR interpretation of the Law fails ... there is your proof...
rugonnacry
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Nov, 2007 12:57 pm
@rugonnacry,
rugonnacry;44735 wrote:
UN Resolution 1441, 678, 687 is NOT my opinion it is that of the UN... International Law saying US going to Iraq was LEGAL... Just because you or I dont LIKE the war doesnt make it illegal.


As far as US law... JOINT house resolution signed October 16th 2002 authorizing the president to attack Iraq...


YOUR interpretation of the Law fails ... there is your proof...




"Iraq Resolution" and "Iraq War Resolution" are popular names for the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002,[1] a law passed by the United States Congress in October 2002 as Public Law No: 107-243, authorizing what was soon to become the Iraq War.


Sorry forgot to post the Law number
0 Replies
 
Freeman15
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Nov, 2007 02:45 pm
@rugonnacry,
rugonnacry;44735 wrote:
UN Resolution 1441, 678, 687 is NOT my opinion it is that of the UN... International Law saying US going to Iraq was LEGAL... Just because you or I dont LIKE the war doesnt make it illegal.


As far as US law... JOINT house resolution signed October 16th 2002 authorizing the president to attack Iraq...


YOUR interpretation of the Law fails ... there is your proof...


Let's see what Resolution 1441 ACTUALLY said shall we?

Quote:

Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations,
3
S/RES/1441 (2002)
1. Decides that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its
obligations under relevant resolutions, including resolution 687 (1991), in particular
through Iraq’s failure to cooperate with United Nations inspectors and the IAEA,
and to complete the actions required under paragraphs 8 to 13 of resolution 687
(1991);
2. Decides, while acknowledging paragraph 1 above, to afford Iraq, by this
resolution, a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations under
relevant resolutions of the Council; and accordingly decides to set up an enhanced
inspection regime with the aim of bringing to full and verified completion the
disarmament process established by resolution 687 (1991) and subsequent
resolutions of the Council;
3. Decides that, in order to begin to comply with its disarmament
obligations, in addition to submitting the required biannual declarations, the
Government of Iraq shall provide to UNMOVIC, the IAEA, and the Council, not
later than 30 days from the date of this resolution, a currently accurate, full, and
complete declaration of all aspects of its programmes to develop chemical,
biological, and nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, and other delivery systems such
as unmanned aerial vehicles and dispersal systems designed for use on aircraft,
including any holdings and precise locations of such weapons, components, subcomponents,
stocks of agents, and related material and equipment, the locations and
work of its research, development and production facilities, as well as all other
chemical, biological, and nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for
purposes not related to weapon production or material;
4. Decides that false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted
by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with,
and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a
further material breach of Iraq’s obligations and will be reported to the Council for
assessment in accordance with paragraphs 11 and 12 below;
5. Decides that Iraq shall provide UNMOVIC and the IAEA immediate,
unimpeded, unconditional, and unrestricted access to any and all, including
underground, areas, facilities, buildings, equipment, records, and means of transport
which they wish to inspect, as well as immediate, unimpeded, unrestricted, and
private access to all officials and other persons whom UNMOVIC or the IAEA wish
to interview in the mode or location of UNMOVIC’s or the IAEA’s choice pursuant
to any aspect of their mandates; further decides that UNMOVIC and the IAEA may
at their discretion conduct interviews inside or outside of Iraq, may facilitate the
travel of those interviewed and family members outside of Iraq, and that, at the sole
discretion of UNMOVIC and the IAEA, such interviews may occur without the
presence of observers from the Iraqi Government; and instructs UNMOVIC and
requests the IAEA to resume inspections no later than 45 days following adoption of
this resolution and to update the Council 60 days thereafter;
6. Endorses the 8 October 2002 letter from the Executive Chairman of
UNMOVIC and the Director-General of the IAEA to General Al-Saadi of the
Government of Iraq, which is annexed hereto, and decides that the contents of the
letter shall be binding upon Iraq;
7. Decides further that, in view of the prolonged interruption by Iraq of the
presence of UNMOVIC and the IAEA and in order for them to accomplish the tasks
4
S/RES/1441 (2002)
set forth in this resolution and all previous relevant resolutions and notwithstanding
prior understandings, the Council hereby establishes the following revised or
additional authorities, which shall be binding upon Iraq, to facilitate their work in
Iraq:
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall determine the composition of their inspection
teams and ensure that these teams are composed of the most qualified and
experienced experts available;
– All UNMOVIC and IAEA personnel shall enjoy the privileges and immunities,
corresponding to those of experts on mission, provided in the Convention on
Privileges and Immunities of the United Nations and the Agreement on the
Privileges and Immunities of the IAEA;
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have unrestricted rights of entry into and out
of Iraq, the right to free, unrestricted, and immediate movement to and from
inspection sites, and the right to inspect any sites and buildings, including
immediate, unimpeded, unconditional, and unrestricted access to Presidential
Sites equal to that at other sites, notwithstanding the provisions of resolution
1154 (1998) of 2 March 1998;
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to be provided by Iraq the
names of all personnel currently and formerly associated with Iraq’s chemical,
biological, nuclear, and ballistic missile programmes and the associated
research, development, and production facilities;
– Security of UNMOVIC and IAEA facilities shall be ensured by sufficient
United Nations security guards;
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to declare, for the purposes of
freezing a site to be inspected, exclusion zones, including surrounding areas
and transit corridors, in which Iraq will suspend ground and aerial movement
so that nothing is changed in or taken out of a site being inspected;
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the free and unrestricted use and landing
of fixed- and rotary-winged aircraft, including manned and unmanned
reconnaissance vehicles;
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right at their sole discretion verifiably
to remove, destroy, or render harmless all prohibited weapons, subsystems,
components, records, materials, and other related items, and the right to
impound or close any facilities or equipment for the production thereof; and
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to free import and use of
equipment or materials for inspections and to seize and export any equipment,
materials, or documents taken during inspections, without search of
UNMOVIC or IAEA personnel or official or personal baggage;
8. Decides further that Iraq shall not take or threaten hostile acts directed
against any representative or personnel of the United Nations or the IAEA or of any
Member State taking action to uphold any Council resolution;
9. Requests the Secretary-General immediately to notify Iraq of this
resolution, which is binding on Iraq; demands that Iraq confirm within seven days of
that notification its intention to comply fully with this resolution; and demands
5
S/RES/1441 (2002)
further that Iraq cooperate immediately, unconditionally, and actively with
UNMOVIC and the IAEA;
10. Requests all Member States to give full support to UNMOVIC and the
IAEA in the discharge of their mandates, including by providing any information
related to prohibited programmes or other aspects of their mandates, including on
Iraqi attempts since 1998 to acquire prohibited items, and by recommending sites to
be inspected, persons to be interviewed, conditions of such interviews, and data to
be collected, the results of which shall be reported to the Council by UNMOVIC and
the IAEA;
11. Directs the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director-General
of the IAEA to report immediately to the Council any interference by Iraq with
inspection activities, as well as any failure by Iraq to comply with its disarmament
obligations, including its obligations regarding inspections under this resolution;
12. Decides to convene immediately upon receipt of a report in accordance
with paragraphs 4 or 11 above, in order to consider the situation and the need for
full compliance with all of the relevant Council resolutions in order to secure
international peace and security;
13. Recalls, in that context, that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq that
it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its
obligations;
14. Decides to remain seized of the matter.
6
S/RES/1441 (2002)
Annex
Text of Blix/El-Baradei letter
United Nations Monitoring, Verification
and Inspection Commission
The Executive Chairman
International Atomic Energy Agency
The Director General
8 October 2002
Dear General Al-Saadi,
During our recent meeting in Vienna, we discussed practical arrangements that are prerequisites for the
resumption of inspections in Iraq by UNMOVIC and the IAEA. As you recall, at the end of our meeting in
Vienna we agreed on a statement which listed some of the principal results achieved, particularly Iraq’s
acceptance of all the rights of inspection provided for in all of the relevant Security Council resolutions. This
acceptance was stated to be without any conditions attached.
During our 3 October 2002 briefing to the Security Council, members of the Council suggested that we
prepare a written document on all of the conclusions we reached in Vienna. This letter lists those conclusions and
seeks your confirmation thereof. We shall report accordingly to the Security Council.
In the statement at the end of the meeting, it was clarified that UNMOVIC and the IAEA will be granted
immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to sites, including what was termed “sensitive sites” in the past.
As we noted, however, eight presidential sites have been the subject of special procedures under a Memorandum
of Understanding of 1998. Should these sites be subject, as all other sites, to immediate, unconditional and
unrestricted access, UNMOVIC and the IAEA would conduct inspections there with the same professionalism.
H.E. General Amir H. Al-Saadi
Advisor
Presidential Office
Baghdad
Iraq
7
S/RES/1441 (2002)
We confirm our understanding that UNMOVIC and the IAEA have the right to determine the number of
inspectors required for access to any particular site. This determination will be made on the basis of the size and
complexity of the site being inspected. We also confirm that Iraq will be informed of the designation of additional
sites, i.e. sites not declared by Iraq or previously inspected by either UNSCOM or the IAEA, through a
Notification of Inspection (NIS) provided upon arrival of the inspectors at such sites.
Iraq will ensure that no proscribed material, equipment, records or other relevant items will be destroyed
except in the presence of UNMOVIC and/or IAEA inspectors, as appropriate, and at their request.
UNMOVIC and the IAEA may conduct interviews with any person in Iraq whom they believe may have
information relevant to their mandate. Iraq will facilitate such interviews. It is for UNMOVIC and the IAEA to
choose the mode and location for interviews.
The National Monitoring Directorate (NMD) will, as in the past, serve as the Iraqi counterpart for the
inspectors. The Baghdad Ongoing Monitoring and Verification Centre (BOMVIC) will be maintained on the same
premises and under the same conditions as was the former Baghdad Monitoring and Verification Centre. The
NMD will make available services as before, cost free, for the refurbishment of the premises.
The NMD will provide free of cost: (a) escorts to facilitate access to sites to be inspected and
communication with personnel to be interviewed; (b) a hotline for BOMVIC which will be staffed by an English
speaking person on a 24 hour a day/seven days a week basis; (c) support in terms of personnel and ground
transportation within the country, as requested; and (d) assistance in the movement of materials and equipment at
inspectors’ request (construction, excavation equipment, etc.). NMD will also ensure that escorts are available in
the event of inspections outside normal working hours, including at night and on holidays.
Regional UNMOVIC/IAEA offices may be established, for example, in Basra and Mosul, for the use of their
inspectors. For this purpose, Iraq will provide, without cost, adequate office buildings, staff accommodation, and
appropriate escort personnel.
UNMOVIC and the IAEA may use any type of voice or data transmission, including satellite and/or inland
networks, with or without encryption capability. UNMOVIC and the IAEA may also install equipment in the field
with the capability for transmission of data directly to the BOMVIC, New York and Vienna (e.g. sensors,
surveillance cameras). This will be facilitated by Iraq and there will be no interference by Iraq with UNMOVIC
or IAEA communications.
Iraq will provide, without cost, physical protection of all surveillance equipment, and construct antennae for
remote transmission of data, at the request of UNMOVIC and the IAEA. Upon request by UNMOVIC through the
NMD, Iraq will allocate frequencies for communications equipment.
Iraq will provide security for all UNMOVIC and IAEA personnel. Secure and suitable accommodations will
be designated at normal rates by Iraq for these personnel. For their part, UNMOVIC and the IAEA will require
that their staff not stay at any accommodation other than those identified in consultation with Iraq.
On the use of fixed-wing aircraft for transport of personnel and equipment and for inspection purposes, it
was clarified that aircraft used by UNMOVIC and IAEA staff arriving in Baghdad may land at Saddam
International Airport. The points of departure of incoming aircraft will be decided by UNMOVIC. The Rasheed
airbase will continue to be used for UNMOVIC and IAEA helicopter operations. UNMOVIC and Iraq will
establish air liaison offices at the airbase. At both Saddam International Airport and Rasheed airbase, Iraq will
provide the necessary support premises and facilities. Aircraft fuel will be provided by Iraq, as before, free of
charge.
8
S/RES/1441 (2002)
On the wider issue of air operations in Iraq, both fixed-wing and rotary, Iraq will guarantee the safety of air
operations in its air space outside the no-fly zones. With regard to air operations in the no-fly zones, Iraq will take
all steps within its control to ensure the safety of such operations.
Helicopter flights may be used, as needed, during inspections and for technical activities, such as gamma
detection, without limitation in all parts of Iraq and without any area excluded. Helicopters may also be used for
medical evacuation.
On the question of aerial imagery, UNMOVIC may wish to resume the use of U-2 or Mirage overflights.
The relevant practical arrangements would be similar to those implemented in the past.
As before, visas for all arriving staff will be issued at the point of entry on the basis of the UN Laissez-
Passer or UN Certificate; no other entry or exit formalities will be required. The aircraft passenger manifest will
be provided one hour in advance of the arrival of the aircraft in Baghdad. There will be no searching of
UNMOVIC or IAEA personnel or of official or personal baggage. UNMOVIC and the IAEA will ensure that their
personnel respect the laws of Iraq restricting the export of certain items, for example, those related to Iraq’s
national cultural heritage. UNMOVIC and the IAEA may bring into, and remove from, Iraq all of the items and
materials they require, including satellite phones and other equipment. With respect to samples, UNMOVIC and
IAEA will, where feasible, split samples so that Iraq may receive a portion while another portion is kept for
reference purposes. Where appropriate, the organizations will send the samples to more than one laboratory for
analysis.
We would appreciate your confirmation of the above as a correct reflection of our talks in Vienna.
Naturally, we may need other practical arrangements when proceeding with inspections. We would expect in
such matters, as with the above, Iraq’s co-operation in all respect.
Yours sincerely,
(Signed) (Signed)
Hans Blix Mohamed ElBaradei
Executive Chairman Director General
United Nations Monitoring, International Atomic Energy Agency
Verification and Inspection Commission
.

I don't see authorization for the US to use force in there, do you?


Further, a joint resolution from Congress IS NOT a declaration of war. A declaration of war is a power CONSTITUTIONALLY delegated to Congress and Congress alone pursuante to Article I, Section 8, Clause 11. So The Iraq War Resolution is unConstitutional because it placed the decision of when to deploy troops in the hands of the president. NOWHERE in the Constitution is Congress permitted to delegate their authority and responsbility to declare war. In fact, Amendment Ten CLEARLY states that if the Constitution doesn't explicitly give the government a specific right, it falls to the states or the people.

The war in Iraq is ILLEGAL.
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