1
   

Civilans killed in Iraq

 
 
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Oct, 2007 11:46 pm
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;42652 wrote:
It remains true, nonetheless. It does no good to keep brooding over the how and why. We are there, period. The tasks now are to win and get out on our own terms. :patriot:


When was the last time someone invaded a nation and could get our on his own terms?

- Remember how the Brits left America?

- or how the French left Vietnam.

- Followed by us Americans.

- Look how the Soviets left Afghanistan.

- Or the Indians Sri Lanka.

Anywhich way we are buggered. We can leave now and save a few more of our Children from dying or we can leave later with more of our dead.

But anyway, you my friend, so gung ho et all, you should be there in Iraq giving release to your testosterone build up and getting a few of those diaperheads notched up on your belt.....so why aren't you there? Your passion seems strong enough for you to enlist.

Go for it. We are rooting for you Mr.Pinochet. Show us what you are really made of.
mlurp
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 10:19 am
@Adam Bing,
Well on this mission because of the fact civillian were killed I think the gunships should have keep patrol over head and called in ground support just maybe these cililians might have lived. But then too maybe not and some of our people might have died. So why can't these fighters just let the civilians out of harms way? They use them for shields. And I can't say that the gun ships were wrong or right. They should have gotten them all before they entered the house but then to what do we really know in this situation.

US military: 11 dead in Iraq airstrikes By SINAN SALAHEDDIN, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 22 minutes ago



BAGHDAD - A U.S. helicopter opened fire on a group of men as they were planting roadside bombs in a Sunni stronghold north of Baghdad on Tuesday, then chased them into a nearby house, killing 11 Iraqis, including at least six civilians, the military said.

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The airstrikes came a day after Osama bin Laden scolded his al-Qaida followers and other insurgents, saying they have "been lax" for failing to overcome fanatical tribal loyalties and unite in the fight against U.S. troops.

The message of his new audiotape reflected the growing disarray among Iraq's Sunni Arab insurgents and bin Laden's client group in the country, both of which are facing heavy U.S. military pressure and an uprising among Sunni tribesmen.

The men were seen placing the bombs near the volatile northern city of Samarra, said Maj. Peggy Kageleiry, a military spokeswoman.

An Apache helicopter "engaged these enemy forces, and the enemy forces ran into a house and took over the structure," she said, adding the attack aircraft continued to fire at the suspected militants as they tried to escape.

Six civilians and five military-aged men were killed and five people were wounded and evacuated to a hospital in nearby Tikrit, 80 miles north of Baghdad, she said, adding it was unclear how many of the men were in the group planting the bombs.

Kageleiry had said eight military aged men were among those killed but later revised the figure to five and said an investigation was under way.

She expressed regret for the civilian deaths but blamed insurgents for endangering their lives by running into the house to escape attack by the U.S. forces.

Police and witnesses said 14 people were killed, including four women and eight children.

Dhurgham Hamid, a man from the area that was hit, said the dead included a man who was a supervisor at the provincial education directorate, and his wife, an accountant at the agency.

"They were peaceful people who had nothing to do with the resistance or gunmen," Hamid said.

It was the third claim of civilian casualties from U.S. airstrikes in as many days, raids that have prompted complaints that too many ordinary Iraqis are losing their lives, particularly as the Americans increasingly rely on air power to attack militants.

On Monday, relatives and police said a 42-year-old woman and her 4-year-old daughter were seriously wounded when attack helicopters opened fire before dawn on a duplex that housed a family in one half and a store selling motor oil in the other in Baghdad's Shiite enclave of Sadr City.

The U.S. military said attack helicopters killed one extremists and wounded five after they were seen trying to place a roadside bomb.

Ground forces also called for air support after encountering fierce resistance in a raid targeting a suspected Iranian-linked leader of a kidnapping ring in Sadr City on Sunday, although casualty tolls conflicted. The Americans said 49 militants were killed, but Iraqi officials insisted the number of casualties was 15 — all civilians.

Aides to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr condemned the raid but urged followers to abide by his orders to refrain from violence despite what it called "the crimes of the Americans."

"We call upon al-Sadr's people to show self-restraint. Their reaction should be peaceful and should not violate the order ... to freeze their activities," said Falah al-Obeidi at the cleric's Sadr City office.

Al-Sadr later issued his own statement urging his Mahdi Army militia not to harm or kill fellow Iraqis. He also appeared to call on members of Iraqi government forces to stop cooperating with the U.S. military.

"You army and police of Iraq, don't kill an Iraqi in the name of secular laws or in the name of 'imposing the law,'" he said, using his phrase for the security crackdown in Baghdad and surrounding areas.

The U.S. military has said repeatedly that it welcomed al-Sadr's order to his Mahdi Army fighters but pledged to continue its crackdown against what it says are breakaway factions that are being armed and trained by Iran.

U.S. and Iraqi forces, meanwhile, banned vehicles, motorcycles and bicycles in the streets of the Anbar provincial capital of Ramadi to protect a celebration to commemorate Sheik Abdul-Sattar Abu Risha, the founder of the first anti-al-Qaida group of Sunni tribal leaders who was assassinated by a bomb Sept. 13.

Abdul-Sattar's brother, who has taken over the movement, said it was important to keep pressure on insurgents, recalling that about 50 al-Qaida militants marched through downtown Ramadi a year ago in a show of force.

"The people felt weak and afraid because of al-Qaida. Now there is a feeling of strength," Sheik Ahmed Abu Risha told The Associated Press at his heavily guarded compound as a band practiced for the parade. "This year, I want to have a good parade to show that we support the law."

In other violence Tuesday, a gunfight at a police checkpoint in western Baghdad killed an officer and a gunman, and wounded two officers and three gunmen.

Associated Press Writer Bushra Juhi contributed to this report.
US military: 11 dead in Iraq airstrikes - Yahoo! News
0 Replies
 
92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 11:08 am
@Silverchild79,
I have read The Art of War twice, and still you can not fight a war against ideas, or a tactic.
mlurp
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 04:01 pm
@92b16vx,
The book like all Military Schools every where teach tactics. That is what Armies use to fight from deployments to the pull out.
But ideas, values morality can not be fought with tactics, as far as I know.
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 07:34 pm
@Adam Bing,
Adam Bing;42680 wrote:
When was the last time someone invaded a nation and could get our on his own terms?

- Remember how the Brits left America?

- or how the French left Vietnam.

- Followed by us Americans.

- Look how the Soviets left Afghanistan.

- Or the Indians Sri Lanka.

Anywhich way we are buggered. We can leave now and save a few more of our Children from dying or we can leave later with more of our dead.

But anyway, you my friend, so gung ho et all, you should be there in Iraq giving release to your testosterone build up and getting a few of those diaperheads notched up on your belt.....so why aren't you there? Your passion seems strong enough for you to enlist.

Go for it. We are rooting for you Mr.Pinochet. Show us what you are really made of.


For the U.S., Grenada, Panama, Haiti. :headbang:
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 07:36 pm
@92b16vx,
92b16vx;42806 wrote:
I have read The Art of War twice, and still you can not fight a war against ideas, or a tactic.


You can if you're willing to be ruthless. Hitler killed eveybody in his path, for a long time. He only lost the war because he meddled in military matters outside his depth, and made many critical errors that cost his country the war. He turned out to be our best ally. :swordfight:
92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 09:37 pm
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;42847 wrote:
You can if you're willing to be ruthless. Hitler killed eveybody in his path, for a long time. He only lost the war because he meddled in military matters outside his depth, and made many critical errors that cost his country the war. He turned out to be our best ally. :swordfight:


Obviously you do not share Americas vision of spreading democracy. Sorry Pino, your dream of dead dark people is not shared.
Brian764
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 07:33 pm
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;41485 wrote:
Bomb targets Iraqis heading to shrine - Yahoo! News

just for trying to go to their place of worship. Notice they didn't target soliders, the target was innocent civilans only. So why then do you blame this on our country? "1,000,000 dead, thanks Bush": Well while that number is laughably inncorrect we should thank Bush because if not for our pressence during the reconstruction of Iraq the true number would be allot higher...
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 04:31 am
@92b16vx,
92b16vx;42862 wrote:
Obviously you do not share Americas vision of spreading democracy. Sorry Pino, your dream of dead dark people is not shared.


You made a general comment about war. I merely pointed you were wrong.
92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 07:31 am
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;43025 wrote:
You made a general comment about war. I merely pointed you were wrong.


You didn't point out anything, you blathered on about Hitler, it has nothing to do with the inability fighting ideas, and tactics.
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 05:01 pm
@Adam Bing,
Adam Bing;42680 wrote:
When was the last time someone invaded a nation and could get our on his own terms?

- Remember how the Brits left America?

- or how the French left Vietnam.

- Followed by us Americans.

- Look how the Soviets left Afghanistan.

- Or the Indians Sri Lanka.

Anywhich way we are buggered. We can leave now and save a few more of our Children from dying or we can leave later with more of our dead.

But anyway, you my friend, so gung ho et all, you should be there in Iraq giving release to your testosterone build up and getting a few of those diaperheads notched up on your belt.....so why aren't you there? Your passion seems strong enough for you to enlist.

Go for it. We are rooting for you Mr.Pinochet. Show us what you are really made of.


Yeah...but so what? Counter-insurgencies are always ugly, unpopular and inconclusive. They still have to be fought, from time to time. Sorry. Life sucks.
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 05:04 pm
@92b16vx,
92b16vx;43039 wrote:
You didn't point out anything, you blathered on about Hitler, it has nothing to do with the inability fighting ideas, and tactics.


Yeah....I 'blathered' and you 'blubbered'. Together we're either 'blabubber' or 'blubather'. Which do you prefer?:devilheadbang:
0 Replies
 
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Oct, 2007 03:24 am
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;43146 wrote:
Yeah...but so what? Counter-insurgencies are always ugly, unpopular and inconclusive. They still have to be fought, from time to time. Sorry. Life sucks.


Its not our place to go into other peoples home to fight the "counter-insurgents" as you call them. We need to mind our own business better instead.
0 Replies
 
 

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