Islam? A better religion for minorites

Well, the first few responses we've covered well enough....Good job bro! ***high-five*** :-)

That's too bad only the well connected over there can have weapons. I'm a firm believer in the "right to bear arms" as per the U.S. constitution. ((even King David, (in the bible) had his sling....and he brought down Goliath.
A well armed citizenry is the best protection against a tyrannical government.

Cool pedigree (ancestry) you have there. :-)

On to some rebuttals...



First off, nowadays in Islam it is the "norm" to NOT depict your prophet, and depicting him is what brings outrage. (Many in the west either don't even know that, or don't understand WHY it's forbidden....) But, Islam itself has hundreds of works of art made over the centuries with depictions of mohammed!! That's a fact!! I could dig up some links that show them, but they are more than likely banned for you. (I'm sure by now you can at least take my word for it that I've seen them) Bear in mind, they are just normal works of art, made by muslims - for beauty and arts sake. Granted some of them have him "faceless", but the majority don't. The point being, there have been MANY periods in Islam's history where it hasn't been "wrong" to depict mohammed. And I believe ONE of those times many works of art created by muslims, beautifully depicting mohhammed, was during it's more tolerant "Golden Age"......



Well, you're talking on the personal level - political satire isn't meant that way, because it goe out to everyone, though it is meant to get people thinking/talking amongst themselves. Yeah, I'd like to come over (or vice verce) and chat with you - I believe we could have some great discussions. I'd prefer it without the cadre of "experts" looking over our shoulders, though. :-)



So far, then, from what you're saying, is that the insult was the depiction of mohammed itself, combined with the bomb in the turban, of course. From your perspective of it being taboo to even depict mohammed in any way, I can see then how just a depiction can be taken as an "insult" (though that's truly NOT how it was meant).

1) Throughout the centuries, there have been hundreds of paintings and works of art created by muslims depicting mohammed - So it hasn't always been "wrong" to depict him.

2) A political cartoon HAS to convey a large amount of information and meaning in just one image. Since mohhamed was the founder of islam, who gave muslims their holy book, the political cartoon conveyed the message (whether agreed with our not) that since the foundation of your religion, is the justification for bombings.

Why feel "insulted" by all that?? It seems you all venerate a mere man too much, just as you all say christians venerate Jesus (a man) too much.




I pretty much already covered this in that at many points in time in islam it hasn't been wrong to depict him. (including in Islams more tolerant golden age)




At a glance, I suppose - But, in reality, ALL nations "support" each other in one way or another, looking to work with those that may share some common goals for trade and commerce, etc. That's just the way the world has ALWAYS worked. France is helping Iran to build their nuclear reactors. Russia assists other nations in armament (as does China and the U.S.) - It's a working relationship between nations - which is how the world has always run. Why is it only America that is castigated for this? Though we've made mistakes and supported the wrong people sometimes (Saddam hussein), that can only truly be judged in hindsight. At the time, it seemed the "lesser of two evils". you are either "friends" with someone and have a mutual relationship of assistance, or you are not, and leave them alone to run their own life. Do you have a third option??





Jimmy Carter thought the Shah of Iran was a piece of "stuff", in his mind, and many muslims, we assisted in taking out that "piece" as well. And there is more... You get the jist.

Our "action" of taking him out (which you like) is the ONLY reason things have escalated - and the hirabah choose to "drive off the infidel". By trying to foment sectarian violence between Shiite and Sunni. There doing a good job of it, unfortunately. We took Saddam out - which you like. If the hirabah had never came to "drive us out", there would be no situation in Iraq. We could have been out of there a few years ago, and Iraq would be back to running itself. Don't blame us because hirabah think it's ok to blow up innocent people at the market.....and they justify it using the quran.

Yep, there have been many mistakes made (as there is in all warfare) but the fact is, the "war" would have been over years ago (and we would have left), if the hirabah had never started their violence against innocenct people. THAT is where the blame logically should go!! Because even you yourself said you're glad we took him out. The rest of the crap is due to the hirabah. ((for those new to this, hirabah is the word for muslims engaged in illegal, un-quranic warfare)).

We really, truly thought that by freeing Iraqis from saddam - they could start there own "We...the people" country.... But the muslim hirabah don't want that. Please, put the blame for the crap over there now on them - because that IS where the blame is..... (and don't forget Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabian meddling/support for those hirabah). The rulers of those countries don't want you all to be free.....and so they fight against us. WE liberated.....it is muslims (with different interpretations from yours) that are doing the destruction. That's not our fault - and we are doing everything we can to stop them. But the propaganda grows - and if even someone like you can't see what we tried to do, and where the blame truly lies for the continuing bloodshed, well, then there isn't hope for the muslim masses.





That's where that "mutual interests" thing in world interaction takes affect. A moderate country with close friendship/ties to ours, with a resource we need, was invaded by a tyrant. Yes, in one sense it was for "oil". But it was also to beat back a tyrant. One we knew was only getting worse after the Iran/Iraq war. Hell, a lot of the surrounding muslim nations were getting afraid of saddam - who wanted to bring back the glory of Babylon. Yep - friends help friends. Kuwait (a friend with mutual trade agreements) was invaded. And we helped her. Certainly oil was an interest there. BUT you are COMPLETELY wrong if you think that, had they not already had agreements to selling their oil to us, that we would come in and take it by force. That's just all the propoganda you hear talking. And what do you mean "sell the oil whether they like it or not"?? Kuwaitis (and any oil rich nation) rakes in billions from selling us there oil. If you think they'd rather not have those billions, you're being naive. It'd be nice to see those nations use all that billions in bettering the lives of their people, though, instead of keeping it for themselves and leaving the masses in poverty, riling them by blaming us for their troubles (while pounding their qurans) - when it's their own leaders who are keeping them down.



Hey! We agree again!! ;-)



But why do you venereate a man that much?? How is that any different from the over-veneration of the man called Jesus??

I'm truly glad YOU see what I have been saying - but most certainly there are many muslims who would look at what I wrote and call it blasphemy and an insult (I don't put the PBUH after his name, after all..) and many would find that an insult, as well as the other things I stated. I mean, just the simple fact that I don't believe at all that he was a prophet from God can be an "insult" to some.

On the VanGogh documentary:: The quranic verses were all verses about how to treat woman - and due to those verses the woman were beat and abused. Now, while I KNOW you, my friend, wouldn't abuse your wife (based on your reasonableness, honesty and sincerity here) - the fact remains that others DO - and they use those scriptures quoted as their justification. The west does not see any problem in our God-given bodies. While most people believe we should be modestly attired, etc. - when it comes to art - the human body has been portrayed often. And the human body is not evil. It's our hearts and thoughts that can be evil. No "thing" is evil, in and of itself. It's how we look at things (and lust for) that can be evil.

What is so insulting about quranic verses on a human body, trying to convey the message of how woman are abused in the muslim world, using those same verses as their justification?? It's really the same thing as what we've been talking about here - how quranic verses are used as justification for terrorism throughout the world.... At least you DO see that. It really is the same thing!! ~ Quranic verses used to justify beheadings, stonings, bombings, etc, and quranic verses used to justify beating woman - their testimony worth half a man's etc.....

Actually, I think some of the woman in the film were still muslim - but they had to flee to the west - where they knew they could be safe. They didn't want to be killed due to some childish "honor" thing.......





And I've read of his exploits and what he did. (quran and hadiths) and I cannot tell you how I truly feel about it all -- because you would most certainly be offended. I find his actions and ways completely barbaric and atrocious, and truly cannot understand how anyone can think he is "the best human ever". And I cannot comprehend how anyone can venerate him so much, that they would get offended and kill over someone looking at his deeds and going:: GAHH!!! That's evil stuff!! How could a human being DO that!! How can ANYONE think that stuff is good and wish to emulate it!! It goes against what all humanity has been evolving out from!! ~

That's as far as I'll go on that - -I really don't want to offend you!! (because I think your a neat guy and sincere at heart.)




Well, christian theology is that Jesus didn't make any mistakes - and was perfect. As for the part about God not needing to "walk in our shoes" - you're correct, in a sense - he didn't need to -- but they believe he CHOSE to -- for our sake...not His.

Personally, of the 3 religions of Isaac, Ishmael and John - I think I prefer Isaac's..... It's written MUCH better (it's not so choppy and jumbled like the quran). Then I'd choose christianity. It's "judaism lite" for the rest of the world. And in all honesty, I can't even comprehend choosing Ishmaels. I know islam states it is Judaism and christianity that has perverted God's word - but from what I see - and after having read them ALL.... It's islam that has perverted and twisted God's word. ((no offense - just my opinion))



Ok - but--- WHY!!!!! ~~~~ It just seems so darn primitive!!!! I can make fun (joke) about some tribe in the jungles of the amazon worshipping an anaconda or a coconut - and still respect their existence as human beings!! (and maybe even envy their simpler way of life). WHY! take such offense at what is "sacred"?? I can make fun of a belief - and still "respect" and "tolerate" anothers beliefs. That definitely IS a difference between western thought and other ways of thought. Your way of thought on the "sacred" is why we have "honor killings" in the muslim world ( though I agree that most are not really quranically justified -just culturally justified) -- and it also closes the door to rational discussion. Not with YOU, mind you -- but with the overwhelming majority who would look at what I've written on these posts.....and want to kill me. You HAVE to admit that there are MANY who would do just that! While I "see" where you are coming from on the "sacred" - I do not understand it (and why someone would embrace it). Because I believe it to be a more primitive mode of thought....




And yet, for the things you take offense at - -the western mind just can't understand why.... Granted, that's mostly because the west has forgotten what loving God fully even is (not me!)...and they've forgotten religion enough to not see anything as "sacred". But, even those in the west who still love God fully and worship him, and try to abide by his will -- still cannot fathom killing and rioting over cartoons.... And for that I'm glad.... Because I believe it to be a misplaced "sacred" and a misplaced "insult". NO ONE called mohammed any names!! ~ And as stated before, muslims themselves have depicted mohammed in their art for a millenia....why is it such a problem today?? Now, I know there are quranic versus against making ANY image - but if that's the case, why in Islams more enlightened days (the golden age) did they create art depicting mohammed? I truly believe that the imams and mullahs telling you it is sacrilege to do that, are misreading the quran for their own power. After all, islam once DID produce many paintings and murals of mohammed in their more tolerant and enlighttened "golden age". It certainly did give the imams a reason to rile up the masses now, didn't it???




Wrong on the first part of this! The correct answer is: There is nothing rational about taking insult - WHEN NONE IS MEANT!!

On the second half -- you do have that correct - I am not trying to be insulting to you or anyone. But truly! Neither was the cartoon satirists, the pope, or Theo VanGhoh. ~ They, too, were being critical. And one of them is dead now - thanks to a misguided muslim justifying his actions using the quran - and whom you happen to sadly agree with......





No insults were meant -- and the depictions at many points in time in Islam were ok enough to where there are hundreds of depictions of the prophet in islamic art.



And while that is partly the fault of those in the west who don't understand that in this time (unlike other times/ages) islam considers depiction of the prophet as an insult in and of itself, it's also the fault of those who would see a depiction - and immediatley take offense - and not see/hear what was trying to be said. Due to close-mindedness and the current islamic perspective of "no depictions of mohhamed AT ALL".



True - but just because someone "feels" insulted - that doesn't make it right and real. Plenty of people "feel" all sorts of illogical emotions. But that doesn't mean we should "accept" it and kowtow to their feelings. Usually we just tell them to grow up. You truly DON'T have to "feel" offended. Take control of your emotions better! Understand that if no insult was meant - there truly is NO reason to "feel" insulted!! It truly is your choice!!



So, you're judging something without ever even seeing it....
It wasn't a "cheap shot" and trying to gain fame from controversy. He REALLY did want to try to better the lives of Muslim women!! Hirsti Ali also helped him on it. It had NOTHING to do with cheap-shots and trying to gain fame. They truly were only trying to HELP msulim women.... And for this he was killed. Trying to speak truth to tyrants (the tyrants being many muslim men - not you though - but others that DO take the verses differnetly - and abuse their wives.



You hated him because you HEARD a perspective of what he did - but never heard "the rest of the story" about what he did and why. And never even saw it for yourself. You were misled into hatred, plain and simple.



Yeah - I'm with you there - -I do the same over here in the west, from a western perspective -- lolol -- we are a lot alike.... ;-)




No, they weren't even mocking your center of being etc - all they were doing is what I have been doing here. Showing how, though YOU don't believe all these acts we've talked about are "true islam" - the muslims themselves doing it are using scripture etc and believe it to be true islam. Maybe that's the reason the imams and mullahs and muslim news agencies riled things up and blew it all out of proportion - to keep people from digging deeper into truth and seeing YOUR "true Islam", instead riling the masses to get carried away by "feelings" of hatred - over nothing.... Perpetuating the extremist perspective.... and they even ensnared you.



Well - you and I have covered it enough - It wasn't meant to insult, but you choose to take it as insult. We can agree to disagree on this one then.





And yet, insult was never meant - it's the way it was CHOSEN to be taken....




Thanks. Seriously. But really, that's all that the others meant, too. They didn't do it to insult. VanGhoh really thought he was doing it to help muslim women.



True enough for the targets. But the point was that your SCRIPTURE (as interpreted by many) is what cause the problems - it's what HELPS CREATE tryrants.....

The nude part was for "art" as well as that, well - in the west - nudity isn't that big a deal. In the artistic sense, it was meant to convey that, just as in the west with it's own degradation of the female body in porn and all, in the muslim world, that female body is subjected to abuse sanctioned by your scripture (in other muslims eyes, not yours of course! - I'm sure YOU are a good, loving husband to your wife). In a sense, he was artistically and visually stating what we (myself and others posting against islam) have been stating - -that's all. And the west has a hard time in "seeing' why the muslims wish to supress human expression. There is a difference between porn and art -- A lot of ancient greek art is of the naked human body - There is nothing wrong with nudity in and of itself. Porn - I agree - is bad -- the nude human form is NOT - as it is how God made us. In the "garden of eden" from the bible, Adam and Eve were created naked..... It was only AFTER we "fell" that we started wearing clothes.....
Now, that all said - i believ in modesty just as you do - but I can also see the artistic value and BEAUTY in the human form!! ((minus lust and all the crap)) -- of course, I'm a musician and have an appreciation of art and all - so, I can look at a female body and see the beauty -- and still not "lust" -- that's a truth from my heart to you mind..... Someone once said: Nothing entering in to a man can defile him - the defilement comes from within his heart... I belive that in it's totality - be it the ingesting of food "not allowed" in some religions, as well as hearing or seeing. There is NO thing that is evil - the evil comes from ourselves and what we think about something. ((a cartoon isn't evil -- our hatred over that cartoon comes from our heart -- and we choose to hate or not....)) You used the analogy of if someone mocked you earthly father - you would be mad and take retribution. I would laugh at them -- shake my head and walk away. And pray for them... Yep -- there are big differences between Judaeo-Christian and Islamic beliefs. One is based on human emotions and honor/shame -- and the other is based on higher, God given modes of thought -- to help people grow up beyond the primitive emotions of honor/shame.....




Which of the 4 allowed wives?? It's not specifically stated she's a slave - but to the western mind (of men and women) what the quran teaches about woman DOES make them slaves....As a muslim man, though - you could never understand that.




Cool - I've debated many to where it just turns in to a finger pointing contest. I do like how you state that "it would just make us both wrong".
We agree yet again.





If one grows up with it and it's all she knows - -of COURSE she wouldn't see herself as a victim - she would think it is just hte way it is... Including the cultural aspect of genital mutilation that many woman (and even in the Sudan!) have to endure! I know, that's not Islam - and it isn't. Than speak out against that cultural atrocity of cutting off the clitoris of women! That's a barbaric cultural thing and Islam should loudly stop it! Because you and I know that that ISN'T in the quran!

Now, if a woman from over there were to come to live in America and were ALLOWED to go about on her own -- she would eventually see that, yes, she WAS abused and kept from being truly free.... To choose whatever she wishes to choose..... That's between her and God.




I know - and therein lies one of the problems....

Too many in the west just don't understand/realize that islam is a "total" system - religious AND political -- and, due to the dogma of the quran, it isn't allowed to separate. And THAT is why all muslim states are failures...... And why the "golden age" came to an end after imposition of sharia and islamic control of governments. It just doesn't work.... It's NOT the fault of outside forces....it's the fault of the impostion of sharia and your entwining religion and state.



Well, it IS like that - because under sharia law you can NEVER excel.. And really, I look foreward to the afterlife as well -- but God also put us here to excell and be the best we can be -- to honor him.

the Taliban tried imposing strict sharia in afghanistan.... They didn't do too well in life there ---. NOWHERE that strict sharia is applied, do human beings do good and grow and excell. The two are mutually exclusive. In order to excell, one has to be free. And sharia shackles us in bondage/submission to fear and 7th centruy dogma. The golden age of islam (pieces picked up from more advanced cultures that were conquered by invading muslims) ended as sharia was imposed and people were no longer free. I'm sorry, my brother. But that is real Truth.



That's cool to hear. Yes, I would do the same as you. But there's too many others (from both of our bretheren) who would do different -- and quote scripture all the way.....





Well, I don't recall any insults - at least, nothing different from what I've been saying -- and if you aren't feeling insulted by what I say, then you'd do ok on those sites. I truly wish you could get them. It's kind of telling, though, that the "powers that be" over there are too afraid to let "We...the people" of muslim nations hear/see those sites. What is it do you think they are so afraid of??? ((the Truth))



Well, the word is given (literally, figuratively, and spiritually).
I'll do my jihad on this side, you do it over there. If we can each reach a few people...and those few people each reach a few people -- eventually, you and I can help to build a better world for all... I've started decades ago -- come join me.



There is NO excuse or reason for blowing oneself up and trying to take out as many "jews" as possible who are innocent. This is too much to get in to on this thread -- With just this one aspect/point we can post a longer debate then all that we've written so far, I'm sure. ((actually, I wouldn't mind doing that-- it really should be a different thread, though....

The land wasn't stolen. Israel is a SLIVER of land compared to what was offered to the arabs of the region after WW2. Any land "lost" was due to the arabs declaring war on Israel immediately after her formation. The invading arabs from the surrounding nations (nations themselves "created" by the west after the fall of the Ottoman empire) ended up losing their war to "drive the Jews into the sea". Generally, throughout history - the loser of a war (especially one the loser started) lost land, etc. It was actually a miracle that the Jews won that first war - because there God is the God of Abraham.....

there were roughly 600,000 "palestinians" dispersed due to that war (the war started by the surrounding arab nations, who TOLD them to flee, so they would not be in the way of the glorious arab victory). there were also roughly 600,000 jews kicked out of all the arab nations, in hatred, at that time - and everything they owned was confiscated. They only left with their lives. The newly RE-created nation of Israel took in their dispersed and helped them. the arabs refused to help the dispursed palestinians (dispursed due to the ARABS telling them to flee!!) and they arabs perpetuate the misery of the palestinians. Arafat was offered fullly 98% of his demands, and the palestinians could have had their own homeland decades ago (actually, what is now Jordon was initially created for them, with the small sliver of Israel given for the Jews after the holocaust and the world saying "never again") but instead, muslims, due to their scripture, cannot "give up" any land they have conquered (and arabs DID conquer those lands, before WE conquered them back....ahemm), so - the anger and hatred continues to this day. And by the way, that's why bin laden still talks about reclaiming andalusia (SPAIN!!!). That, in a nutshelll, is why the crap still continues over there in Israel. If the Arabs put down their weapons today -- there would be peace.....if the Jews put down their weapons, there would be no more Israel.

enough on this one -- it's for another thread....




I know. It is too much for just you, of course. I just wish the majority who are like you would all get together and rise up. and bring decency back to Islam. Wish I could help you there.




To an extant that's true -- but unfortunately, many of the "charitable" organization that many muslims give to DO fund terrorism -- so -- 20 - 30% DO support terrorism - whether they realize it or not.... It isn't far-fetched. I see it too, how un-islmaic parties would fund extremist terror - it helps keep them in power.




Well, if I had more faith in my government to help, I would say YOU do--- but after our abandoning of Iraqi's in the first gulf war...... **sigh**
point taken.



My google on der yasin brought up some interesting stuff. I'm sure you can only see sites that show one side of that battle. (bearing in mind there never would have BEEN a battle had the Arabs accepted the creation of Israel and Pan-Jordon for the palestinians). Either way, from sites both "for" and "against" Israel (that's one good thing about the west -- we get to see ALL sides of an argument) it doesn't appear to be anything more than another typical battle that humanity has experienced since the dawn of man... it certainly wasn't a massacre -- and that's based on statements from a pro-arab side site! -- Chechneya was/is Russians (athiests). Yes. they were brutul -- that's why America was always against them in the "cold war". And ---ummmm---we HELPED muslims against them there!! In fact, we're accused of "creating Bin Laden because we HELPED you all in chechnya against Russia!! Sheesh!! ;-)

The U.S airports thing-- puhhhleeease!!! :-) You even stated they were random -- because they ARE!! White scandinavian grandmothers get searched, too!! And, while we Americans gripe about the inconvenience, it would be nice if, when a muslim gets picked - he didn't whine about it -- since we ALL have to be inconvenienced by it!! Most Americans dislike the way the searches are conducted because they are too Politically Correct!! ~ Why randomly search and inconvenience EVERYONE -- which is what is happening -- when the entire world KNOWS that, while not all muslims are terrorists, the overwhelming majority of terrorists are Muslim!! So why search the 80 year old scandinavian athiest grandmother!!! :-) That was a bad example to use on your part, bro - because anyone from America knows it aint just muslims being searched.....




Well, when those Imams showed up in Syria with a portfolio of images to rile the masses, and those images got broadcast in arab media (or, at least, talked about/describe) - and they contained VERY offensive images that were NOT printed in the paper -- what is one supposed to think?? They were created and inserted by the imams themselves -- because the worst one printed was only the mohammed turban bomb one -- which isn't all that "terrible".




No - I wouldn't agree. Because the point was that it was the teaching of the prophet and Islam that leads to terrorism (so say the terrorists themselves - -don't kill the messenger, bbro). A turban bomb on Bin Laden wouldn't make people think - because -well - everyone knows he bombed and is a terrorist. The point trying to be made was what the prophet started with the religion he created. Again, images of the prophet (available alll over online) were created by muslims themselves in more enlightened and tolerant times. Only today do you all say it's somehow a sacrilege.



Well, first, the joke in America is "Where are they going to find that many virgins for that many martyrs!!"

But on the serious side, because the afterlife ISN"T like this world here!!
You can't seriously believe that our carnal/physical lusts play a part in the afterlife?? They most certainly will be left behind. And what if a "believer" craves little boys?? or pre-pubescent girls?? -- oops - scratch that last one - we know the prophet did that - so I guess to muslims that's acceptable....

Look, there are NOT 72 virgins waiting in heaven for martyrs!!! That's most certainly a lie.. and that is not the "paradise" of judeao-christian theology.
That's why I have no qualms in saying that your god is NOT my God.....
It truly isn't the jews and christians who perverted God's words....
But that is just my opinion - based on reading the books of Isaac, John AND Ishmael.






I think I explained the reason why earlier in this post - but, to reiterate the gist: It's worse because muslims just can't abide by "infidels" actually setting them free - something which they can't do for themselves - and, while the majority are greatful we took out saddam, the rest just don't want us there at all. If the extremists put down their weapons and never started their bombing of innocent people at markets, we would have been gone years ago.

In short - it's THEIR fault -- not ours.




When we supported him in the Iran/Iraq war -it was the lesser of two evils. (and Russia supported Iran). When we've gone in and taken him out, it isn't destroying the whole nation. It's your shiite bretherren destroying the nation -- blame them. We would have been gone years ago if the shiites (supported by Iran/syria) weren't there creating terror and killing innocent people at the markets and destroying mosques. More atrocities are commited Muslim against muslim - than anything. And that is sad.




I laughed -- was funny. :-)

AS for the Jesus part -- You have a few verses about him and some ideas. Christianity has an entire BOOK about him and his ways. I'm sorry -- but you do NOT know Jesus better than Christains do! Your version of Jesus is false. That's not to say he was "god in the flesh" - but what he spoke and taught - as the prophet you say he was -- doesn't even come close to what christian scripture speaks of. You are preaching a different Jesus -- just as your god that you preach of is a different God (derived from the moon god alilah from mohammeds father/town -- why do you think you symbol is the crescent moon?). -- and he's not the Christian or Jewish God of Abraham --




I hear ya!! Wish you could be over here.... serious....




I need to study up on it more - I really don;t know the details - but take your word for it. What I would guess, since we didn't support him in the first few years, was that he did his own thing and overthrew a good leader -- but we in America let you all do your thing -- we didn't want to interfere in your internal affairs. The first two years - he was making overtures to the USSR - and we didn't do much for him -- then, he turned and came to us - so we did support him. Had we not, he would have gone back to the USSR for support. BUT -- our support is still just letting nations run themsleves! And, like all nations, we aligned with whomever seems amenaible to working with us as trading partners etc.

Heck, since everyone accuses us of imperialism anyway, maybe the world would be better off if we actually WERE imperialistic!! We could at least be rid of all these tyrants!! No matter what, had we not "supported" him, the russians would have-- or the French- or the Chinese. That is how the world has always worked.....

I'm just glad it's better now for you over there. :-)



In America, we can do as I had stated -- or we can sue the hell out of them and bring them down monetarily if we win the case. Taking away someones money has more affect than a flogging.




I thought as much and can see that. Though, I don't agree with it. In another day and age -- one less civilized - sure! And it worked way back when. But it's not for this day and age of logic and reason. It's too extreme.
It's a religion of fear -- and God shouldn't be one of fear. That's called satan.



Part of me sees that logic - and has even thought it (the human emotional part, that wishes everyone was fair and good). But the other part of me knows that it is wrong. Even the most hardened heart CAN change - especially after he's lost everything do to his poor choices. People CAN repent. Islam doesn't allow them that chance.



1) It wasn't christianity that taught that God should stome and adulter. It was Judaism - and Islam that teach that.
2) It was Jesus who showed a different way - not to just save her - but to show others that they, too, can be saved.

Bro, the point of having it in scripture wasn't just for this ONE woman to be set free -- it was so others could see it and understand as well.

OK - you can;t just say it was God's will for her to go scott free and leave it at that -- WHY!! was she allowed to get off "scott free"?? Because God was trying to show ALL of us something....that we are ALL sinners -- no matter how pious we think we are NONE of us can measure up to God's standards of perfection. None. Jesus saved her -and she sinned no more. Jesus has saved millions -- and they've gone and sinned no more. Not that there haven't been many who professed to be "saved" only to continue in there sin -- but that is between God and them. And it isn't up to us to judge them.

For it's time, those old laws (stonign etc.) were needed -- they aren't to be done today -- which is one of the things Jesus was trying to show people.
ALL the rest of what he taught CLEARLY shows this!! but it's YOU who only has a few verses about what Jesus taught, and it's christianity that has an entire book of what he taught.



At least you admit it's a cultural thing.




And it's the "west" that is supposed to be the intolerant ones?? :-)
Well, we don't judge and ostracise children for the sins of their parents.




And yet all those crimes have been committed by apparent "good" people as well. It really is the individual -

Basically, what you are saying is EXACTLY what racist white people say about inner-city poor blacks. Seriously!! ~ You are pre-judging someone based on circumnstance beyond their control. That is a bigotted perspective -- but at least you admit it's you and your culture, and not Islam. Though, one would think that Islam should be able to affect a culture to change -- just as christianity affected a culture to change and end slavery -- and by the way....how do you feel about slavery?? It is sanctioned in Islam, as you know -- and your prophet did endorse it.....




Well, actually the Jewish "golden age" was during Solomons time and the first temple --wayyyy back in b.c. times, a thousand years before your prophet....
The Jews were conquered and dispersed throughout the world by the Romans -- 650 years before your prophet. Your golden age, as I stated before, I really believe to be nothing more than you all "picking up the pieces" (as we agreed on) and then, once sharia was imposed - you all lost that.

regarding the palestinians -- at one point in time, they were more prosperous than any arab in any nation - simply due to working in Israel. And Israeli-arabs had it even better. They had more rights than any arab in arab lands--- until Arafat began his intifada on trumped up charges of sheron "desecrating" al Aqsa - due to his visiting there. Since then - it's been a downhill slide for the descendants of arabs in gaza and the west bank. you do know that at one point in history, "palestinians" was for anyone in that area -- including Jews -- since that was the Roman name given to Israel. It's only recently that it's been co-opted to mean the arab descendants who lived there. Also, the millions there (from the original 600,000) are descendants of arabs who came AFTER Israel was established -- -because the jews brought jobs and prosperity. You all have thrown all that away in your quest to drive them away. Instead of living side-by-side and allowing your brother Isaac a small sliver - -you would rather hate him and kill him. If the arabs put down their weapons today -- there would be peace. If the Jews put down their weapons -- there would be no more Israel. And certainly father Abraham is crying in heaven over Ishmaels blind hatred.




The jews have been busy accomplishing everything you denigrated about my post for their nobel prizes -- Oh, it's just a small period of time. And in that small period of time look at what they've done in science and medicine etc!! And look what the arabs have done!. Yes, they are busy building a better world for all (palestinians lived better than any arab in any arab country before the intifada) -- and arabs are busy destroying it. Islam WILL bring about the destruction of this world, as prohesied in revelation, unless they change their hatred. A hatred towards some that you yourself have shown!! If someone as good and rational as you can hate so much, imagin the hatred and evil within the hearts of those less intelligent then you!!



So, yet again -- "that's not Islam!" -- Ok -- at ANY point in history, when has any of it ever been "ISLAM!"!!! **sigh** Sir, at ALL points in time, it's always been ISLAM..... Different version -- but all Islam none the less. At least in Judaism and Christianity, we take the blame for our bad moments. Muslims never do.... No I shouldn't say that... Because you have, even in these posts -- I just wish more would, instead of taking offense when someone points out the crap.





I did a little more reading in to the politics in Sudan -- interesting. But it would appear that the only reason that there is representation, is because there still is a large chunk of christians in the south - and it appears that the muslims running htings are doing there damndest to kill off and terrorize the christians (and black/african muslims) in the south. (Darfur). So, for now you have a christian vice president - unlike any other muslim nation - but the muslim government definitely appears to be trying to change that....




Well, based on what we've been chatting I suppose you are right. Wish there were more of you.




Oh, I already said that the majority of Americans wouldn't trust a Muslim to be president. Heck, it was only 1960's and Kennedy that they felt comfortable enough to vote in a Catholic!!.... Unless Muslims separate mosque and state -- a muslim could never be voted to president -- that's "we...the people" talking, though - not government dictates as in muslim nations.




No one is asking you to pay for it.. Bu I know you can't help thinking that way because it's all government run (or approved) over there. Over here, it generally IS all privately financed. And anyone can do it. I don't believe that the Sudanese govenrment would even allow me to build a radio station to broadcast christian theology even if I had the means to do so -- Adn I doubt you belive they would either....




That's the one! yes! ~ I knew you'd remember (saved me the trouble of looking it up! ;-) )

but, again, it's your history that portrays it as the jews breaking the treaty - while western history (outside of "jewish" his

I think this post has the record for longest.

LOL it was Dr but a great read.

Muslims are still practicing slavery globally and in free and democratic countries like Canada and the US the police have broken up slave gangs that bring in young Muslim women (mainly from Africa) and force them to work for them for shelter and food. They are often sold to rich Saudis or Iranians as maids, we've had three cases this summer and their belief that this is acceptable is astounding.

Go into a Mosque in Canada and the US and have a gander at their librarys? Books on how to PROPERLY BEAT your wife abound. Thankfully in Canada the wife need not give evidence we can throw the spouse in jail with evidence (bruises and marks) from an investigation.

In my province a Saudi male kept his wife a prisoner in their home for two years, her mother died and she thought he'd let her go to her funeral. She was wrong, he beat her threw her down a flight of stairs dragged her back up the stairs beat her again and then threw her down the stairs again. His son begged for an hour to be allowed to call an ambulance. The second son snuck out of the house and called for help. She was in ICU for months, he is going to jail for eight years. At his sentencing he told the judge she look at another man and under Sharia Law he had the legal right to beat and punish her. The judge (female) was not impressed. This is not an isolated case, how bad is it we shall never know the burka hides the damage inflicted by the spouse. Muslim women are suppose to free and equal in my country but they aren't because Islam is subjugative to women. Regardless of what form is practiced, Islam is a religion that preaches subjugation and abuse towards women. Yes there are muslim males that don't agree with beating their wives but I'd guesstimate the average is ten percent at the most.

[SIZE="3"][/SIZE]

By Chris Carlson - Venezuelanalysis.com
Wednesday, 23 May 2007
Venezuela’s President Chavez Tells Pope to Apologize to Indigenous Peoples

Hey Sword, do you have any actual points to make?? Or is all you can do is copy/paste articles from leftist news sites??

Actually, I could use the same exact arguments that my bud on this blog, Politically-Wrong says when we point out events caused by shiites. That's not MY religion. Catholicism isn't all of Christianity. The pope is NOT our leader. He's the leader of Catholics. Christianity is as divided in sects as Isalm is. We don't kill each other over those differences anymore though.

So far you've posted nothing but diatribe against the institution of Catholicism. That's why the majority of Christians could state - Yep, that's why we're not catholic!. ((Just as the Sunni's could say, Yep, that's why we're not Shiite!)) ~ Exact same thing.

Now, in slight "defense" of what was written, as I've stated before, a lot of that stuff was "the way of the world" for it's time. People conquering other people. That's just how the world has always ran. And actually, though there were "atrocities" committed, the overwhelming majority of deaths were really simply due to the diseases that europeans brought with them. Diseases they had built up immunities too, but that ravaged the indigenous peoples of America. Like smallpox. And, of course, no one at that time even KNEW about diseases and how they are transmitted etc. If it were muslims who had found the new world first, the same thing would have happened (including the diseases). The difference is that christianity can honestly look at all the "stuff" of history. Whereas, islam can't - like denying the Armenian genocide in Turkey.

And what did Cortez find when he got to the "new world"? The Incans -

Inca Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not exactly "civilized" themselves. ~

If it were muslims who had found the america's -- pretty much the exact same thing would have happened. It's just that we can admit to "stuff", and look at it as the "way of the world" for the times - and you all can't.

Maybe we should find some Incans to apologize for their colonization of Peru, venezuala etc.?? Or some Mayans to apologize for their wars, cutting out the hearts of live people in their sacrifices and eating their flesh.

Maybe we should find descendants of Cain to apologize to the descendants of Abel.......

Maybe we all should just grow up and grow on with our lives, and quit blaming others for our own failures.

Maybe if Ismael joined John and Isaac at the adult table of humanity, the world would be a better place....

Na that's pretty much all he does. That an he won't talk to if you don't your proper language to address his stature. It is benieth him to talk to most of us.
You wanna piss him off, ask him who wrote his book, he won't answer us and he's not mad at you YET?

Ya, it seemed as much, Drnaline. ;-)

Ok, to Sword:: - I KNOW who inspired your book!! Let's just say, Rushdie had it correct in the title of his book......

I've read the quran...and the hadiths. I see there effects of blind hatred and destruction throughout the world to any nation that has the misfortune to be next to a muslim nation, or have a large muslim popluation in it....

Rushdie most CERTAINLY had it correct.

Islam is the religion prophesied in Revelation.....

Let he who hath an ear hear.....

There, now Sword can be pissed at me, too - though he's never answered me.

I only wish that the majority of good, decent people ensnared by it (such as our bud, Politically-Wrong) would rise up and stop them. But Revelation tells us differently.....

Here're fanatic hatred guys that seems to love throwing around the word Militant/extremist Islam. If you agree with them you are a Moderate DECENT Muslim. If you fail to agree with them then you're a Militant extremist Muslim, and should be placed on some sort of black list and get kicked out of the west and be banned from any discussion Forum.


According to them, To be a MODERATE DECENT MUSLIM then you should agree that whatever their fabricated twisted bible says can be true and make sense no matter how nonsense it says! As an example, you should not question this nonsense passage where the fabricated bible states that birds of four legs exist !!

[ Lv:11:20 ]-[ All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you. ]

Not to mention these passages which I can not comment on:

God speaks to prophet Ezekiel:

"You shall eat it as a barley cake, having baked it in their sight over human dung." [Ezekiel 4:12]

“And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight.” [Ezekiel 4:12]


The Talmud states that the rabbis even managed to defeat God in debate. How then would a mere "goy" dare to question them?!

Hey Mr. Sword! Nice to hear from you in your own words!! ~ Thanks for saying hello! :-)



No - actually, we truly wish we didn't have to. Seriously. Because then that would mean that the hirabah and their/your ways would be over and we didn't have to say anything. And innocent people (of all "races", peoples and nations) wouldn't have to die in the thousands of hirabah attacks throughout the world. (TheReligionofPeace.com - Islam: Making a True Difference in the World)




Then you haven't read the posts here by two men of differing religions and cultures, having a dialogue of reason, decency and sincerity - and even disagreeing on quite a few points... That's the one between Politically-Wrong (a VERY good Muslim and man, whom I truly respect) and myself.

And, well, since you are still writing here - I'm not sure where you get the "blacklisted" and "banned" dogma from. Now, if you tried to put your militant dogma into hirabah style action, which goes against the laws of the west, or try to impose sharia - yes - we would kick you out. That's YOUR intolerance that causes that, though. But hey! I do empathize with you on being banned from blogs!! I've been banned from some lefty sites - lol - So, we share a commonality!! ;-) Truth is, though - that I and my words would most assuredly be banned/blocked in a Muslim nation, yet, here you are on this blog free to preach your hatred and dogma!! ~ Your lack of seeing that logic is truly mind-boggling!



I question them all the time -- as do millions of Jews. They (and I) can question the rabbis completely and all the time -- WITH NO FEAR OF DEATH - as it is in Islam. Besides. The Talmud doesn't say that. Not in the way you state it, anyway. lolol You're interpreting it completely wrong. Just is you interpret the quran completely wrong and outside of the one, tru God's ways and will. I'll pray you learn.... Put that sword away (which some have said is the ONLY thing Islam has brought to the world) and also put your hatred away. It's primitive and really makes you look like a little child. lolol You are kind of cute, though, in a sad sort of way... ***pinches Swords cheek***

---After his editing----



No one is demanding you believe anything to be a decent Muslim. To be a decent Muslim - act more like Politically-Wrong!! Actually - you should have continued on, quoting Leviticcus 11:13- 23 -- since it mentions "four feet" 3 times throughout -- it also mentions a bat in there - which is a mammel - not a bird. That could have made a better point for you. It wouldn't do any good to try to explain to you that that just means "those that "walk the earth", and it then also goes on to include locusts and beetles in those same passages. (and those are allowed) It's talking about "flying things" as much as "fowl" as we think of them today (a matter of interpretation) and really, the better point would be to use the bat and insects included in there. But hey! You have as much experience in interpreting Judaism as you do in interpreting Islam -- and your equally bad at both! Come on, Slick!! Even people in ancient times knew there are no birds with four feet!! It's obviously a metaphor!! lol -- Kind of like: It's raining cats and dogs out!! ~ lol~!!! that the best you got??? And besides - Christianity doesn't believe in those dietary laws. As Jesus said, "NOTHING entering in to a man can defile him - the defilement comes from within (his heart). Sort of like how your heart of hatred has defiled you....




Cool - read the entire chapter. Again, they are all metaphors -- but that is probably too "deep" for your simple mind to see. I'm not going in to a full explanation of it - it would be too long. And you missed the part where God told ezekial (in this dream/vision) that he would replace the human dung with cow dung. Heck, in large parts of Africa where wood is scarces, they still use cow dung as fuel for the cooking stove. But, that's all besides the point. The passages you quote are all metaphors - just as revelation had many metaphors. And I'm sure you would say the same if I pointed out apparent ludicrous scripture in the quran. (and there are just as many)

You can not distort or hide information and truth any more. I bring solid evidences and proofs from your sources (not muslim sources):

Israeli Rabbi (RABBI OVADIA YOSEF) Calls On God To Annihilate Arabs


By: Sam Kiley in Jerusalem
The Times - Tuesday 10 April 2001
Israeli Rabbi Calls On God To Annihilate Arabs

THE spiritual leader of Israel's ultra-Orthodox Shas party has come under attack for a Passover sermon in which he called on God to annihilate Arabs.

"It is forbidden to be merciful to them, you must give them missiles, with relish - annihilate them. Evil ones, damnable ones," Ovadia Yosef was quoted in the Hebrew Maariv newspaper as telling a congregation attending prayers last weekend.

His party, which holds the balance of power in Israel's Knesset and is a key member of Ariel Sharon's national unity coalition, moved quickly to clarify his remarks, which included a plea to God to destroy Arabs.

Yitzhak Sudri, the party spokesman, insisted that the rabbi was referring only to "Arab murderers and terrorists", but Rabbi Yosef's comments revived memories of his recent description of Arabs as "snakes" amid complaints that the Palestinian Authority was tolerating incitement, which both sides agreed to ban under the 1993 Oslo Peace Accord.

"May the Holy Name visit retribution on the Arabs' heads, and cause their seed to be lost, and annihilate them, and cause them to be cast from the world," Rabbi Yosef, a former Chief Rabbi of Israel's Sephardi Jews, is reported to have said.

Here are Jewish and christian sources confirm the Jews Blashemy against Jesus (PBUH):

1- The Jewish Encyclopedia: JESUS OF NAZARETH. (as seen by Jews) ..from the Jewish Encyclopedia JewishEncyclopedia.com - JESUS OF NAZARETH.

2- Truth about the Talmud: Racist, Rabbinic Hate Literature.

by Michael Hoffman, foremost scholar of Judaism in the English-speaking world
Truth About the Talmud: Judaism's Holiest Book

3-Talmud Exposed
In A christian website Talmud Exposed

4-The Talmud Destroying Christian Cultures...From a Chrsitain website The Talmud

5- Who was Jesus? (according to the Jews)..a Jewish website
Who Was Jesus?

Today's Babylonian Talmud is said to be Judaism's holiest book (actually a collection of books). Its authority takes precedence over the Old Testament in Judaism. Evidence of this is found in the Talmud itself, Erubin 21b (Soncino edition): "My son, be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah (Old Testament)."

It is the Talmudic Jews and the Noahide Laws that are really behind the New World Order and the enforcement of the persecution of Palestinians and Muslims.

NOAHIDE LAWS = Decapitation for Confessing "JESUS or Yahushua IS LORD"!!!


Quotes from TALMUD: The Satanic Book for JEWS. Part-I


1. Sanhedrin 59a:"Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."

2. Abodah Zara 26b:"Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."

3. Sanhedrin 59a:"A goy (Gentile) who pries into The Law (Talmud) is guilty of death."

4. Libbre David 37:"To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly."

5. Libbre David 37:"If a Jew be called upon to explain any part of the rabbinic books, he ought to give only a false explanation. Who ever will violate this order shall be put to death.

6. Yebhamoth 11b:"Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age."

7. Schabouth Hag. 6d:"Jews may swear falsely by use of subterfuge wording."

8. Hilkkoth Akum X1:"Do not save Goyim in danger of death."

9. Hilkkoth Akum X1:"Show no mercy to the Goyim."

10. Choschen Hamm 388, 15:"If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth."

11. Choschen Hamm 266,1:"A Jew may keep anything he finds which belongs to the Akum (Gentile). For he who returns lost property (to Gentiles) sins against the Law by increasing the power of the transgressors of the Law. It is praiseworthy, however, to return lost property if it is done to honor the name of God, namely, if by so doing, Christians will praise the Jews and look upon them as honorable people."

12. Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17:"A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them."

13. Baba Necia 114, 6:"The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts."

14. Nidrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L:"Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night.

15. Aboda Sarah 37a:"A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated."

16. Gad. Shas. 2:2:"A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl."

17. Tosefta. Aboda Zara B, 5:"If a goy kills a goy or a Jew, he is responsible; but if a Jew kills a goy, he is NOT responsible."

18. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 388:"It is permitted to kill a Jewish denunciator everywhere. It is permitted to kill him even before he denounces."

19. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348:"All property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which, consequently, is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples."

20. Tosefta, Abda Zara VIII, 5:"How to interpret the word 'robbery.' A goy is forbidden to steal, rob, or take women slaves, etc., from a goy or from a Jew. But a Jew is NOT forbidden to do all this to a goy."

21. Seph. Jp., 92, 1:"God has given the Jews power over the possessions and blood of all nations."

22. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156:"When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the Gentile shall be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it."

23. Schulchan Aruch, Johre Deah, 122:"A Jew is forbidden to drink from a glass of wine which a Gentile has touched, because the touch has made the wine unclean."

24. Nedarim 23b:"He who desires that none of his vows made during the year be valid, let him stand at the beginning of the year and declare,'Every vow which I may make in the future shall be null'. His vows are then invalid."

Numbers 31:17-18 "Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."

Samuel 15:3 Psalm 137:9 O the happiness of him who doth seize, And hath dashed thy sucklings on the rock! (A praise for dashing little children against rocks as a form of revenge)

Exo 32:27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

Deuteronomy 7:12[ Ez:9:6 ] -[ Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. ]


(Isaiah:13:16) -(Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.)

"But after they had moved it, the LORD's hand was against that city, throwing it into a great panic. He afflicted the people of the city, both young and old, with an outbreak of tumors. (From the NIV Bible, 1 Samuel 5:9)" >>>"tumors" was defined as "with tumors in the groin."


Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."

Chronicles 15:13 "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman."

Leviticus 20:27 "And as for a man or woman in whom there proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail. They should pelt them to death with stones. Their own blood is upon them."

Jesus said : " But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and SLAY THEM BEFORE me. " ( LUKE 19:27)

Jesus said: "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to put a man against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. A person's enemies will be the members of his own family. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. " (Matthew 10:34-36)

Jesus said:
[luk. 12:49] 'I came to cast fire upon the earth, and would that it were already kindled.. Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; for from henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two, and two against three. They will be divided, father against son, and son against father, mother against daughter, and daughter against her mother.'

Jesus said:
[luk. 14:26] if any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife, and children, and brothers and sisters yes and even his own life: he cannot be my disciple.

Luke 22:36 (Jesus tells his followers to "Purchase Swords")
And He said to them, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.

John 2:15 (Jesus attacks people with a whip in the Temple)
And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables;

No - you bring proof from sources hostile to Judaism and Christianity, twisting words and what was said. I could show just as many articles and snippet-quotes speaking against Islam - and would be told I am taking things out of context - just as you are doing with all your quotes.

Since you posted 5 in a row wtih no room for rebuttal (you should have listed it all in one post) I'll try to do what I can::




There are many journalists who hate Israel and write one-sided pieces. Incidentally, though I think this is a journalist who is a jew hater and doesn't know the full history of the region, he also wrote an article about the invasion of Iraq that was pretty positive towards it over-all....
Anyhow, on this article - yep, it appears, based on this article and some confirming articles I read, that this ONE rabbi DID speak those words (though misconstrued too far). Still, ONE rabbi speaking out negatively (after 60 years of attacks and hatred from the Arab world) pales in comparison to the hatred towards jews espoused in thousands of mosques and madrassas daily throughout the world. See my links in my other posts - unless they are banned by your governments.




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Child, I don't expect them to believe in Jesus. ANd I don't demand they do and don't really care if they disbelieve in him - - just as I disbelieve in your prophet. It's not "blasphemy" to me - ROTFL! They can disbelieve all they want. And when I read the torah and talmud, I really don't blame them for disbelieving. The differenc between you and I is, I take no offense about it and don't see it as an insult. lol -

If anyone wants to see what Judaism is about (beyond these biased lefty links posted by a bigotted and racist Muslim, no matter that the links were written by non-muslims), check out Judaism - The Jewish Website It's better than any Islamic site filled with it's hatred and bigotry of jews.



Said to be, by SOME, maybe - there's also Jews that believe only in Torah and not Talmud. THere's also secular Jews. No matter - they all have still contibuted more good to humanity than Islam. (see my first post here)




Ummm-- your completely wrong on the noahidic laws -- may the one true God forgive your misled ignorance. Here's a wikipedia link to them: Seven Laws of Noah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here are the 7 laws, by which non-jews can be "righteous gentiles":

The seven laws listed by the Talmud are:

1) Prohibition of Idolatry: - There is only one God. You shall not make for yourself an idol.
2) Prohibition of Murder: - You shall not murder.
3) Prohibition of Theft: - You shall not steal.
4) Prohibition of Sexual Promiscuity: - You shall not commit adultery.
5) Prohibition of Blasphemy: - Revere God and do not blaspheme.
6) Prohibition of Cruelty to Animals: - Do not eat the flesh of an animal while it is still alive.
7) Requirement to have just Laws: - You shall set up an effective government to police the preceding six laws.

I see nothing in there about decapitation of those professing Jesus. Which stands to reason, for a THINKING mind, since the Noahidic laws are from hundreds of years before Christ.....




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Sounds reasonable enough to me....[/QUOTE]
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There really is no sense in going on for this part of your lies. So far, all you "quoted" is either seriously misquoted out of context, or complete fabrication!!! I am appalled that people could be so taken in by the lies, though, in Revelation we are told that towards the end times, right will be called wrong and wrong will be called right, and that God would allow strong delusion to fall upon people so that "they would believe a lie". And just my research on this post of yours proves that!!~ (to me)

Wow! I'm appalled at the evil in mens hearts!! NOT by your quotes - but by the evil that made it all up -- and that is in YOUR heart, and that too many people believe!!! For the FIRST time in 20 years, I am sickened by what I find on the internet!!! ((lies, libel and b.s hatred -- by those like YOU sword!! - Because Judaism preaches and teaches NOTHING like what you have "quoted".

Here, for all to see:: Judaism - The Jewish Website REAL truth - real Judaism.

See for yourself!!! ((and may God have mercy on all who think otherwise...))

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On all of your Old Testament/Torah quotes::

Some of them were just the "way of the world" (and there are comparable passages in the quran doing the same thing) and some are taken completely out of context, which you would see if you read the whole chapter without picking verses -- we can do the same with the quran. ((and you know that)) Mr. "SWORD of God".....

Can you imagine "turn the other cheek" in the ancient world!!! lol - a people doing that wouldn't have made it past the firrst generation!! So, YES -- at those times, KILL all your enemies that would kill you. Big deal! The big difference (as stated in other posts) is the Jews and Christians understand it for the times -- and hirabah wish to reproduce their ancient atrociteis TODAY!!! (and they ARE)

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(you quoted two more verses, but they are essentially the same as the above - so - see above explanation)








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Cool -- Politically-Wrong neatly/cooly challenged my "man-to-man" side -(he really is a good guy!!) and you, Sword, challenged my knowledge of scriptures (both Judaic and Christian).

I'd do the same to you -- but your answers will be no different than mine, really -- verses taken out of context, in-depth analysis looking at the entire chapter, etc. The difference is -- I DON"T CARE!!! lololo - ROTFL!!

I've READ THEM ALL!!!!!! And I still think YOURS is the evilest!!!

--SOme people in this world wish ALL THREE of Abrahams children would toss out their books, ALL filled with similar verses and chapters, and just be human........

So, Am I a Jew, a Christian, an EX-Muslim -- or an Atheist???

;-) Wink-wink-- nudge - nudge--

Is this a source hostile to Jews!!

The Times

Israeli Rabbi (RABBI OVADIA YOSEF) Calls On God To Annihilate Arabs


By: Sam Kiley in Jerusalem
The Times - Tuesday 10 April 2001
Israeli Rabbi Calls On God To Annihilate Arabs

Are those sources hostile to Jews !!!!


Here are Jewish sources confirm the Jews Blashemy against Jesus (PBUH) and the evil teachings against all non-jews:

1- The Jewish Encyclopedia: JESUS OF NAZARETH. (as seen by Jews) ..from the Jewish Encyclopedia JewishEncyclopedia.com - JESUS OF NAZARETH.

2- Truth about the Talmud: Racist, Rabbinic Hate Literature.

by Michael Hoffman, foremost Jewish scholar of Judaism in the English-speaking world
Truth About the Talmud: Judaism's Holiest Book


5- Who was Jesus? (according to the Jews)..a Jewish website
Who Was Jesus?

Is the Bible (OT) hostile to Jews when I quote the above terrorism passages directly from it !!!!!!

this is your own bible

Online Parallel Bible: Weaving God's Word into the Web

Are all of those hostile to JEWS !!!!!!



Large UK Union Boycotts Israeli Goods, Protesting "Nazi-like" Policies


By Israel Insider staff July 8, 2007
israelinsider: : Large UK union boycotts Israeli goods, protesting "Nazi-like" policies

The British Transport and General Workers Union (T&G) has decided to launch a consumer boycott on products made in Israel, protest Israel's policies and trigger sanctions against it. T&G is one of the United Kingdom's largest trade unions, representing some 800,000 workers.

The decision was made during a meeting held over the weekend in Brighton, about a month after another British trade union, UNISON, also decided to launch an economic boycott on Israel, and after the University and College Union's voted in favor of considering a boycott of Israeli academics and institutions.

According to the union, the decision was made "in protest of Israel's treatment of the Palestinian people." It declared its hope that Israel would be forced, like South Africa, to halt its policies following a widespread economic boycott. "We are working to free the Palestinian people from the Israeli war machine," the union said.

Union leader Eric McDonald was quoted by the British press as saying that Israeli behavior was often not different from that of the Nazis.

Are all of those hostile to JEWS !!!!!!

UK lecturers union back boycott of Israeli universities and scholars

By israelinsider staff May 30, 2007
israelinsider: UK lecturers union back boycott of Israeli universities and scholars

University lecturers in the United Kingdom today voted to force their union into a year-long debate over boycotting work with Israeli universities, and risk provoking European and international condemnation over political interference with academic freedom, the Guardian reported.

At the first conference of the new University and College Union in Bournemouth, delegates voted 158 to 99 to recommend boycotts in protest of what it called Israel's "40-year occupation" of Palestinian land and to condemn the "complicity" of Israeli academics.

The conference motion acceded to the demand for "a comprehensive and consistent boycott" of all Israeli academic institutions, as called for by Palestinian trade unions.

Michael Cushman, from the London School of Economics, complained that Israeli lecturers "regularly ... take up their commissions in the Israeli Defence Force as reserve officers to go into the West Bank to dominate, control and shoot the population."