Lest We Be So Quick To Excuse Ourselves as Well as Others....

Forums: Politics, World Politics
Email this Topic • Print this Page

In the midst of all the talk and debate about the track Bush and his people have taken this nation on, I'd suggest a little more historical perspective. Besides the Rajiv Chandrasekaran article in Saturday the 16th's Washington Post, I would recommend also from today's September 18th Washington Post, Tom Malinowski's column, "Call Cruelty What It Is."

As Confucius knew three thousand years ago, every system of so-called abstract ideas, ideals, and principles operates in this world at least within the context of human desires, fears, egos, and the flow of cause and effect, and actions and their consequences.

If we want to get a handle on what is happening to us, as individuals and as a nation, then we'd do well to take stock of the seeds we're laying down at this time, just as what is happening to us now is the consequence of actions, both ours and others, in the past.

Maybe this is part of the meaning of "What Goes Around Comes Around." This is not to deny the challenge today confronting our so-called "leaders." But it is to urge upon us all something better than a mere revenge-reaction "policy"

This is no doubt part of what the critics of Bush, critics including some of the best and bravest in our military, are saying, when they urge that we not abandon our own humanity, ideals, and, some sense of the history of our current problem. One does not have to be crippled by his or her sense of history to learn something from it.

Historian Eric Bergerud wrote a couple of books, The Dynamics of Defeat: The Vietnam War in Hau Nghia Province, and, Red Thunder, Tropic Lightning: The World of a Combat Division in Vietnam. The latter is the story of the 25th Infantry or "Tropic Lightning" Division in Vietnam, an Army division that also figured, as Bergerud elsewhere details, in the precarious early years of the land war in the Pacific in the South Pacific, as contrasted with the war in the Central Pacific, where with the exception of Guadalcanal, the Marines played a larger role than they did in the early years of the South Pacific war.

But probably the best piece of military history I've ever seen is Bergerud's book, Touched With Fire: The Land War in the South Pacific. It consists largely of interviews with and statements by the men who actually fought the ground war. There are striking passages there reflecting the brutal and racial character of the war that provoked the uglier side of our animal nature.

At the beginning of the book Bergerud quotes from Oliver Wendell Holmes' 1884 Memorial Day Address: "We have shared the incommunicable experience of war. In our youths, our hearts were touched with fire." 1884: barely twenty years after the Civil War, whose scar we still struggle with as a nation.

I remember that line in "Patton," starring George C. Scott. In the race to relieve those beleaguered members of the 101st Airborne at Bastogne in the Battle of the Bulge, one GI sarcastically quotes Patton's reputation as "Old Blood 'n Guts," and says, "Yeah, our blood and his guts."

I presume that by now, George Bush has at least been cured, if not of his smirk, at least of thoughtlessly announcing to those who'd like to kill us, "Bring it on." I presume also by now, the demonstrated falsity of his 2003 statement, "Mission Accomplished."

It could very well be that merely getting another bunch into power would itself improve things. The present group has indeed got a bad name, worldwide. We're not a very old nation, really, and it may be that we have a lot of things to learn. Regarding the prospect raised of Chinese hegemony, I remember many years ago, reports of the visions of some highly reputable psychics, of the then-distant future, where "Chinese troops are marching through American streets."

My own personal opinion is that the Bush people have set us all up for some big hits. In particular, the last five years have seen some sadly wasted opportunities. Remember those images of Iranian youth marching in defense of America right after 9-11? We may have the biggest bombs, but our "volunteer army" is seriously depleted and stretched thin.

And when it comes down to the end, We don't live in this world alone.

Topic Stats
Top Replies
Link to this Topic

Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 917 • Replies: 5

No top replies

@DecencyAdvocate,

If and when they hit us again i think not a shortage of volunteers. 30 bazillion chinese, i think we have ten times that amount in ammunition.

1 Reply

@Drnaline,

Drnaline;4809 wrote:

If and when they hit us again i think not a shortage of volunteers. 30 bazillion chinese, i think we have ten times that amount in ammunition.

<<<<<<<Wow!

2 Replies

@Drnaline,

Drnaline;4810 wrote:

<<<<<<<Wow!

I find these blogs increasingly a waste of time. In response to my own attempts to lay out a thoughtful line of reasoning to back up my own opinions, I receive glib one- or two-liners that are just circular tautologies. .

Regarding the other point: Wasn't it the Founding Fathers, or Founding Brothers, who were worried about government excesses? That said, it's the government, which at the present time unfortunately is the deficit-trade-gap-mad Bush administration and its Congressional mouthpieces, that has "all the power."

To safeguard such "amenities" of democratic-republic life that the Boston Tea Party and their kind fought so hard to create, such as a free press, with safeguards of its own against government interference, encroachment, manipulation, or domination, do journalists not need a hefty measure of confidentiality of sources?

Or for the moment to don a more glib mantel of my own -- Geez, man, do you want the government to have ALL the power?

It's not as if "the government" and "the press" (or what's left of it) are equatable, at this present age of our still-young republic. The Republicans were able nearly to fry Bill Clinton for a lie far less disastrous in its impact on the nation and the world than the repeated, ongoing string of lies of Bush and his people and the distortions of truth committed by the media.

To name just a few:

-the failed attempt by the likes of Judicial Watch merely to get the list of who attended those energy-policy meetings of Cheney and his friends that have distorted this economy and damaged the well-being of so many Americans in ways still subject to lawsuit by various states, in case you don't know about that.

-the string of lies used to get us into the Iraq disaster

-the ongoing flip-flops and conflicting-stories-to-keep-the-public-confused maneuvers by Rice, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bush, regarding the "justification" for starting the Iraq War. First this, then that, then this, then that.....you've heard it all too, if you're listening. Why do you think so many competent people with a conscience, from Colin Powell on down, have exited from this administration? Haven't you read, for example, even Richard Clarke's book, a fact-filled expose by a guy who in his day served and voted for both Democrat and Republican presidents?

-the media's failure to call Bush to task for his own failings, among which number alcoholism and drug use that produces a characteristic tunnel-vision brain, and worst of all in a president, the second-rate CEO mentality that "lets other people do their job."

In this time when the nation faces so many threats, internal and external, it amazes me that so-called conservatives, whom I'd rather call radicals, waste our time by attacking those whom they witlessly label "liberals."

When you think of the guts shown by previous generations going back to the feisty colonials who stuck it to King George, why in the world are so many so eager to condemn those who question the massive authority that pervades and controls nearly every aspect of our lives?

Makes me want to say: And you call yourselves Americans?Drnaline is on a distinguished road

Re: Lest We Be So Quick To Excuse Ourselves as Well as Others....
Quote:
Originally stated by Drnaline View Post
If and when they hit us again i think not a shortage of volunteers. 30 bazillion chinese, i think we have ten times that amount in ammunition.

<<<<<<<Wow!
__________________
Christians sometimes lapse into the church of liberalism by doing bad things, just as liberals sometimes lapse into our church by doing good things.
Ann Coulter
There's something bizarre about the Times rushing out to protest excessive secrecy in the Bush administration -- and then touting the testimony of secret sources as its evidence.

1 Reply

@Drnaline,

Drnaline;4810 wrote:

<<<<<<<Wow!

This is actually the quote that prompted my own statement just now. Apologies for the confusion
DA

0 Replies

@DecencyAdvocate,

DecencyAdvocate;4839 wrote:

I find these blogs increasingly a waste of time. In response to my own attempts to lay out a thoughtful line of reasoning to back up my own opinions, I receive glib one- or two-liners that are just circular tautologies. .

Regarding the other point: Wasn't it the Founding Fathers, or Founding Brothers, who were worried about government excesses? That said, it's the government, which at the present time unfortunately is the deficit-trade-gap-mad Bush administration and its Congressional mouthpieces, that has "all the power."

To safeguard such "amenities" of democratic-republic life that the Boston Tea Party and their kind fought so hard to create, such as a free press, with safeguards of its own against government interference, encroachment, manipulation, or domination, do journalists not need a hefty measure of confidentiality of sources?

Or for the moment to don a more glib mantel of my own -- Geez, man, do you want the government to have ALL the power?

It's not as if "the government" and "the press" (or what's left of it) are equatable, at this present age of our still-young republic. The Republicans were able nearly to fry Bill Clinton for a lie far less disastrous in its impact on the nation and the world than the repeated, ongoing string of lies of Bush and his people and the distortions of truth committed by the media.

To name just a few:

-the failed attempt by the likes of Judicial Watch merely to get the list of who attended those energy-policy meetings of Cheney and his friends that have distorted this economy and damaged the well-being of so many Americans in ways still subject to lawsuit by various states, in case you don't know about that.

-the string of lies used to get us into the Iraq disaster

-the ongoing flip-flops and conflicting-stories-to-keep-the-public-confused maneuvers by Rice, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bush, regarding the "justification" for starting the Iraq War. First this, then that, then this, then that.....you've heard it all too, if you're listening. Why do you think so many competent people with a conscience, from Colin Powell on down, have exited from this administration? Haven't you read, for example, even Richard Clarke's book, a fact-filled expose by a guy who in his day served and voted for both Democrat and Republican presidents?

-the media's failure to call Bush to task for his own failings, among which number alcoholism and drug use that produces a characteristic tunnel-vision brain, and worst of all in a president, the second-rate CEO mentality that "lets other people do their job."

In this time when the nation faces so many threats, internal and external, it amazes me that so-called conservatives, whom I'd rather call radicals, waste our time by attacking those whom they witlessly label "liberals."

When you think of the guts shown by previous generations going back to the feisty colonials who stuck it to King George, why in the world are so many so eager to condemn those who question the massive authority that pervades and controls nearly every aspect of our lives?

Makes me want to say: And you call yourselves Americans?Drnaline is on a distinguished road

Re: Lest We Be So Quick To Excuse Ourselves as Well as Others....
Quote:
Originally stated by Drnaline View Post
If and when they hit us again i think not a shortage of volunteers. 30 bazillion chinese, i think we have ten times that amount in ammunition.

<<<<<<<Wow!
__________________
Christians sometimes lapse into the church of liberalism by doing bad things, just as liberals sometimes lapse into our church by doing good things.
Ann Coulter
There's something bizarre about the Times rushing out to protest excessive secrecy in the Bush administration -- and then touting the testimony of secret sources as its evidence.

Quote:

I find these blogs increasingly a waste of time. In response to my own attempts to lay out a thoughtful line of reasoning to back up my own opinions, I receive glib one- or two-liners that are just circular tautologies. .

What blogs, this in not a blog? Your attempt to lay out reasoning has to have a recieveing party to achieve, i understand the thought but on the same token does not mean i will respond in the manner you wish. A free society operates so. If you percist i think you will get some opinions.

Quote:

Regarding the other point: Wasn't it the Founding Fathers, or Founding Brothers, who were worried about government excesses?

No, they were worried about an oppressive monarcy.

Quote:

That said, it's the government, which at the present time unfortunately is the deficit-trade-gap-mad Bush administration and its Congressional mouthpieces, that has "all the power."

Thats how a democracy works, don't get mad at the player.

Quote:

To safeguard such "amenities" of democratic-republic life that the Boston Tea Party and their kind fought so hard to create, such as a free press, with safeguards of its own against government interference, encroachment, manipulation, or domination, do journalists not need a hefty measure of confidentiality of sources?

"do journalists not need a hefty measure of confidentiality of sources?"
No. Usually the only time they invoke such a rule is to save there own hid. Such conviction to there profession.

Quote:

Or for the moment to don a more glib mantel of my own -- Geez, man, do you want the government to have ALL the power?

Not as long as i have a gun.

0 Replies

Lest We Be So Quick To Excuse Ourselves as Well as Others....

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know