Barn Door Bush

I can agree with you here. He seems so concerned now about a problem that he didnt want to fix when he was governor

I haven't paid much attention to politics until the past few years, but was illegal immigration that much of an issue when Bush was still governor? I don't know exact numbers or anything, but I don't think the population of illegal immigrants was known to be so high until the 2000 census, and there have been other problems on the agenda besides controlling borders. Sixteen years ago, the problem was known to be in California, but most of the illegal immigrants aren't crossing that border, so they couldn't do anything as a single state to stop the flow. Not until last year were the radios and television stations flooding with talk about immigration and border control, and if I remember, it only really started to come up after the teenage riots in France. I've heard the argument that they should have done checks at the walk outs last Monday, but it seems to go with the argument of just checking people outside of their businesses in that both would be way too expensive and use way too much manpower that the INS doesn't have.

I think his resolutions are progress, regardless of whether or not they're the most effective ones that could be considered.

This has been an issue in Texas as well as other states for years , and the governors of those various states tried to do something about it many times . They were often stymied by the fact that the Border Patrols were even more outnumbered then than now and the Federal government did little to help them .

Remember , enforcement is not in the hands of the local law officers , it is in Federal jurisdiction . The numbers of illegals has increased exponentially in the last few years partly because the attraction has become greater , partly because Mexico's economy is failing faster , and partly because people in Mexico see that we are sooner or later going to get around to some type of solution , so they are pouring in .

I think the use of the Guard is a step in the right direction . They can relieve the Patrol on some background work , allowing them to function more efficiently . The proposal from the President is predicated on his suggested increase in the number of Border Patrol agents , so that when that happens ( if Congress will let it ) they will be better able to slow the tide .

I am not sure why President Bush wants an amnesty program , we already have one and it does not work . Fines aren't going to work either . We have the present "catch and release " program in place when we don't have facilities to house illegals before deportation , and we send them into the general population with a court date and a fine , but the larger % don't show up in court , and never pay the fine .

I think a good solution would be to build a 50 ft tall wall on the border with several gates dispersed throughout. Coat the Mexican side of the wall with tar or oil to make it nearly impossible to climb, and then less guard troops would be needed. It wouldn't really be cost effective, but I bet it would help.

:wtf: I have no response for how stupid that would be. Perhaps you don't understand how much 14% of your exports and 11% of your imports are, or how important they are.



Um, don't speak out of your ass, get your facts straight.

Economy of Mexico - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let's try not to be rude next time by calling someone's comment stupid. Believe what you want, but don't be a jackass about it.

I think 11% of our imports wouldn't be as important as 87% of their exports (no exaggeration), and they would quickly fix the immigration problem. How many of those exports/imports couldn't PASS THROUGH A GATE on their way into/out of the country.

Oh wait, the Senate already proposed a plan for the wall.

Fence is a great idea.

lmao, you ask me not to call someone stupid and then you go and insult. I'll just call you very smart

I didn't insult you, I was simply stating that it seemed like something was wrong when you posted that one. Sorry if I offended you, just be a little courteous next time.

I thought an insult was a personal attack, or charactor assasination? I often have to pull my finger out of that general area, LOL.

I know I'm probably late on this topic, and probably several others. My hard drive went out and I just got back on top of things.

I do think a fence is a good idea. Canada's side too. If you want to emigrate, then do it legally. You shouldn't have a problem going through a gate if that's the case.

I personally don't think illegal immigrants are such a HUGE impact on our economy as they and their proponents would have us believe. It's not nearly as large of an impact on our economy as it would be on the Mexican economy if we were to get serious with Mexico about this illegal immigration.

Well , I waited a few days before responding to you . I don't see Mexico's economy in the same light as you , obviously . If it is so great , why do so many wish to leave it ? Is nationalization such a good thing ? Why is the $$ sent home by legal and illegal immigrants such a large part of their economy ? Second only to tourism or oil , depending in how one reads the news . I am voicing my opinion and viewpoint here , not backed up by links , perhaps I should go find some that will support my view . I am sure that if I search Wiki , I can find some . Nevertheless , I stand by my views .

For example - from your own Wiki reference -
"In an effort to raise rural productivity and living standards, Article 27 of the Mexican Constitution was amended in 1992 to allow for the transfer of communal land to the farmers cultivating it. They then could rent or sell it, opening the way for larger farms and economies of scale. By early 1996, however, only six farmers' cooperatives had voted to dissolve themselves, perhaps because the government provides subsidies for communal land seeded by farmers. The subsidy was 708 pesos per hectare in 1999-2000 and 829 pesos per hectare in 2000-01. Since communal land use is formally reviewed only every 2 years, privatization of these communal lands may continue to be very slow."
And- "There have been programs that provide money to pay off loans and help banks with their debt burdens. While high credit costs are still a major problem impeding agricultural development, the burden of debt has been reduced. High interest rates for loans have compounded the difficulty for producers, and the 1994 peso crisis exacerbated the decline in productivity. Agriculture accounted for 5.8% of GDP in 1999."



By the way , I did take this statement of yours personally -"Um, don't speak out of your ass, get your facts straight."

I for one would like to see a link that supports his point but not from the wiki. Even with his reference, it still did not prove you were talking out you ass. "improved the country's macroeconomic fundamentals" Does not mean it improved the economy. Then they say "
and has maintained positive, though small, rate growths after the brief stagnation of 2001." But do not give a figure? How small is small, .01, .001, .0001? Giving only one rerference puts him in the same boat ride he put you in, up a creek any one? The almighty wiki strikes again.

The illegal immigrants are an issue for Mr. Bush today because of the state of the Economy. 10 years ago, the US economy was much healthier and needed labor.
Many of the Mexican people are poor compared to Americans. The government is actually doing a pretty good job of managing the economy.
A great example is the ratio of Debt to GDP which Mexico has (39%) where the USA is sitting at around (80%).

I think Bush is preparing for a nasty downturn in the economy and thinking he can help create jobs by limiting immigration.

How does creating jobs come by limiting Illegal immigration?

I suppose he means Americans will take those jobs when the illegals are barred from entering the country , and he may be correct in a sense . I think the employers will soon have to raise the wages to attract even the unemployed to the "jobs Americans won't do " .

IMO there are not jobs Americans won't do. There are jobs employers will not pay enough for you to do?

I agree with you on that .