1
   

Immigrants and English

 
 
Reply Sat 6 May, 2006 07:11 pm
According to this report , there is nothing to worry about concerning the use of English by immigrants . What do you think ?
"Immigrants & The English Language

This past Monday was A Day Without An Immigrant, a one-day strike by
immigrant workers, both legal and illegal, to demonstrate the economic
importance of immigrant labor in the United States and to protest a bill
passed by the House of Representatives that would make illegal immigration a
felony.

This past week also saw a stir over a Spanish-language version of the
national anthem, with many believing it is unpatriotic to sing the song in
any language other than English.

As this newsletter is about language, this week we look at a couple of myths
and misconceptions about immigrants and the English language.

Myth: Immigrants Don't Want To Learn English

"I think people who want to be a citizen of this country ought to learn
English."

- George W. Bush, 28 April 2006

A common complaint is that immigrants today, unlike those of past
generations, make little effort to learn English-this is simply not true.
Most who come to this country as children will learn to speak English
fluently and those who come as adults will fail, but not through lack of
will to do so.

79% of first-generation Mexican immigrants who come to the US as children
will learn to speak English well. The percentage of Chinese immigrant
children who will do so is 88%. The difference in the numbers is that
Mexicans are much more likely to live in Spanish-speaking communities and,
therefore, have somewhat less opportunity to encounter English. But even so,
the vast majority of Mexican children who come to the U.S. will learn to
speak English. (Source
http://www.migrationinformation.org/Feature/display.cfm )

The number of adult immigrants who learn to speak English well is much
lower, but then language acquisition in general sharply declines with age.
Immigrants who come to the U.S. before the age of eight will perform as well
as native-born Americans on English language tests. Those who immigrate
between the ages of eight and fifteen will score progressively worse the
older they were at the time they came to the United States. And those that
immigrate when even older will score the worst of all, but the results among
adult immigrants do not correlate with age. In other words, sometime in the
teens humans start losing the ability to learn new languages. It's not
impossible to learn new languages as adults, but most people find it very
hard to do so. (Source: Newport , E. Maturational constraints on language
learning. Cognitive Science, 14, 1990)

Adult immigrants don't fail to learn English because they don't want to.
They fail because they adults in general find it very hard to learn new
languages.

Myth: The large numbers of Hispanic immigrants will create a permanent split
in this country between Spanish and English speakers.

The fear is that Spanish-speaking families will create and maintain a
permanent division in this country by language-this is not true.

By the second generation (those born in the U.S. ), nearly all speak
English. Most children of immigrants will speak the immigrant language at
home, but will also be fluent in English. This is the bilingual
generation-in all ethnic groups, English fluency is nearly universal in the
second generation.

By the third generation, over 70% will speak English and no other language.
In other words, by the time you get to the grandchildren of immigrants, most
will no longer speak the immigrant language at all.

This holds for almost all immigrant groups being studied, including
Hispanics in general and Mexicans, the largest immigrant group, in
particular. The grandchildren of non-Mexican Hispanics have a greater
tendency to learn Spanish as well as English, but more than 60% will know
only English. The only third generation ethnic group that has less than 60%
of English-only speakers are Dominicans, who are 44% bilingual in the third
generation.

And these numbers are not changing significantly with the rise in the
numbers of Hispanic immigrants in the 1990s. In the 1990 census, 64% of
third-generation Mexican-Americans spoke only English. By 2000, this had
risen to 71%. (Source
http://www.migrationinformation.org/Feature/display.cfm )

So we will not see a permanent division in this country by language. The
immigrant generation will speak a language other than English. Their
children will be bilingual. And their grandchildren will speak English only.
This is the way it has always been. It's the way it is now. And we have
every reason to suspect that it will be the way of the future as well. The
primacy of the English language in the United States is secure."
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,266 • Replies: 11
No top replies

 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 May, 2006 11:45 pm
@Curmudgeon,
I can go along with that, hope it holds true.
0 Replies
 
jatuab
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 May, 2006 12:08 am
@Curmudgeon,
I don't think it's necessary for Hispanic immigrants to learn English, but I feel like it hinders them economically and socially and it furthers the "dirty Mexican" image when they don't fit in with the rest of the country. Call it bigotry or what have you, but I know a LOT of people who hate that image, and they include immigrants.
Darkseid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 May, 2006 02:22 pm
@jatuab,
jatuab wrote:
I don't think it's necessary for Hispanic immigrants to learn English, but I feel like it hinders them economically and socially and it furthers the "dirty Mexican" image when they don't fit in with the rest of the country. Call it bigotry or what have you, but I know a LOT of people who hate that image, and they include immigrants.


It does hinder them economically and socially.

A part of being a citizen is being able to participate in society and politics. Another part of being a citizen is giving a voice to matters that concern you. All that is part of being a citizen.

What we should be doing is trying to encourage immigrants to participate in society and political events involving our nation. And that in order to participate, they have to learn how to speak in English so that their message can be understood by the masses.

Likewise, we should be trying to encourage immigrant protection as long as they have decided to learn English and participate in politics and in society. So that these immigrants are not to be harmed or ridiculed by anyone in society, just because they are immigrants.
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 06:01 am
@Curmudgeon,
We do try and encourage all those things you say. We do so to "legal" immigrants. Illegals on the other hand have no constitutional rights if they have come here illegally.
0 Replies
 
jatuab
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 09:36 pm
@Darkseid,
Darkseid wrote:
It does hinder them economically and socially.

A part of being a citizen is being able to participate in society and politics. Another part of being a citizen is giving a voice to matters that concern you. All that is part of being a citizen.

What we should be doing is trying to encourage immigrants to participate in society and political events involving our nation. And that in order to participate, they have to learn how to speak in English so that their message can be understood by the masses.

Likewise, we should be trying to encourage immigrant protection as long as they have decided to learn English and participate in politics and in society. So that these immigrants are not to be harmed or ridiculed by anyone in society, just because they are immigrants.

If that's what is involved in being a citizen, half the country has abstained from citizenship at the federal level, and about 75% of the country could not be classified as city or county citizens.

Also, English isn't the only means of communication in this country. The deaf and handicapped participate in politics, and they can't speak English. Representatives are elected or hired to speak for those whose voices cannot be heard likewise.

We should be giving more right to legal citizens, but I don't think any language must be learned to be a citizen of this country, even if the majority speaks it. Just because the majority has one opinion doesn't mean it's right for everyone. If the immigrants don't want to participate, don't make them, and let them suffer the consequences.
Curmudgeon
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 10:38 pm
@jatuab,
I don't see any reason NOT to require immigrants to learn English . It has been proven over and over again that failure to learn the language of business , commerce , and politics is a sentence to failure . Why should we foster a subset of citizens who are probably destined to never achieve much ?
I know English is harder to learn than many other languages , but millions of immigrants in the past have managed to learn , why not these ?
jatuab
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 10:44 pm
@Curmudgeon,
Curmudgeon wrote:
I don't see any reason NOT to require immigrants to learn English . It has been proven over and over again that failure to learn the language of business , commerce , and politics is a sentence to failure . Why should we foster a subset of citizens who are probably destined to never achieve much ?

That's exactly my point. Let them learn or let them suffer. Take away the measures that foster the "culture of poverty" and its excuses, and let them suffer. If people can't be responsible for themselves, the government shouldn't have to be responsible for them either. The government exists to protect the people, but not to be a babysitter for those that can't fend for themselves.

The "ME" generation needs to learn to take care of their own problems and stop looking for others to do so. That's what the World War and Depression generations did, and they made this country the superpower that it is today. If an immigrant wants to be isolated from the surrounding communities, then that's the immigrant's problem, not the problem of the taxpayer who monetarily supports the ESL classes being taught to every immigrant that crosses the border.
Curmudgeon
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 11:09 pm
@jatuab,
jatuab wrote:
That's exactly my point. Let them learn or let them suffer. Take away the measures that foster the "culture of poverty" and its excuses, and let them suffer. If people can't be responsible for themselves, the government shouldn't have to be responsible for them either. The government exists to protect the people, but not to be a babysitter for those that can't fend for themselves.

The "ME" generation needs to learn to take care of their own problems and stop looking for others to do so. That's what the World War and Depression generations did, and they made this country the superpower that it is today. If an immigrant wants to be isolated from the surrounding communities, then that's the immigrant's problem, not the problem of the taxpayer who monetarily supports the ESL classes being taught to every immigrant that crosses the border.


I agree with all that , but still wonder why we FOSTER their entry into such a state of poverty by letting them get around learning English . It is easy to say "let them make their own bed " , but our society will never really let them suffer , it is in our make-up to help the downtrodden , but we don't need to increase those numbers if we can pro-actively reduce them .
jatuab
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 11:11 pm
@Curmudgeon,
Curmudgeon wrote:
I agree with all that , but still wonder why we FOSTER their entry into such a state of poverty by letting them get around learning English . It is easy to say "let them make their own bed " , but our society will never really let them suffer , it is in our make-up to help the downtrodden , but we don't need to increase those numbers if we can pro-actively reduce them .

true...we're a bunch of suckers

i feel that the immigrant issue won't be solved anytime soon, even with a presidential mandate
0 Replies
 
Curmudgeon
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 11:14 pm
@Curmudgeon,
President Bush announced that he will send 6,000 National Guardsmen to assist the Border Patrol . I hope it works .
0 Replies
 
jatuab
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 May, 2006 11:20 pm
@Curmudgeon,
I hope something works, but it will be interesting to see how things play out.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Immigrants and English
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 05/03/2024 at 07:37:23