Is Homosexuality a Choice?

@oaktonarcher,

"Do you not voluntrarily identify with a hetero group? Pro-gay IMO is anti-hetero."

If by identify you mean: To establish the identity of.

If by identity you mean: set of behavioral or personal characteristics by which an individual is recognizable as a member of a group.

Then if I were to identify myself by my sexual preference, which I do not. My sexual partner preference is women who were born that way. I believe I would be associated with the heterosexual group of people.

However, if there is a heterosexual group who's primary tenent is to establish groups of people in categories of gay and anti-gay. I would not be associated with that group.

I do not define "pro-hetero as anti-gay". As a heterosexual, I do not consider people in terms of their sexual preference. Nor I do I agree with the "idea" that because one defines themseleves as heterosexual, you are therefore automatically against others whose sexual preference you do not attribute with yourself.

"What my mind decides. That is choice."

And exactly what is the process you use to make you decisions. Yes, whatever that is, I agree, that is a choice.

"My answer would be No. In your senario, do you think homo's would still have homo parade's?"

First, I cannot suppose what any homosexual individual would do as I do not identify with this group.

However, if I as a heterosexual, I chose to live in a homosexually dominated culture: I feel that their need to freely express their sexual choices would disappear.

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@chuckc cv,

In Roman Chap 1 verses 21 says "for although they new God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened. Claiming to be wise they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man or birds or animals or reptiles. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exhanged natural relations for unnatural and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and no improper conduct. They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips,slanderers, haters of God, insolent, gaughry, boasful, inventors of evil....."

I believe its not a choice but because of the above....

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@oaktonarcher,

I can respect and understand your point of view based on that specific quote of the Holy Bible. I would also assume, that because you quoted the Holy Bible, you identify yourself as Christian.

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@oaktonarcher,

I am always trying to be one...Thank you chuckc...

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@oaktonarcher,

Thank you for clarification. Good luck on your specific spiritual path, chico.

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@oaktonarcher,

U.S. study of gay sheep may shed light on sexuality - Wikinews

This is the most definitive study done on the subject

If they are right (and I think they're defiantly onto something) then homosexuality as a choice and not genetics seems to be a failing argument. That's not to say one HAS to be predisposed to be homosexual.

Someone said that children growing up in homes of Homosexuals had a higher rate of homosexuality. The same can be said of Alcoholism, something the Christian Bible refers to as a sin. Alcholism is also well defined today by science as being a disease one can be genetically predisposed to, rather then the Biblical idea that it's purely the choice of the sinner.

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@oaktonarcher,

Bible I believe is the fountain of spiritual knowledge. It can answer all from science, philosophy, religion, moral values, health etc..

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@oaktonarcher,

then how does it explain that some people ARE born with a homosexual tendency? Kinda violates the whole "everyone has an equal chance to be saved" idea doesn't it?

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@Silverchild79,

Silverchild79;14189 wrote:

U.S. study of gay sheep may shed light on sexuality - Wikinews

This is the most definitive study done on the subject

If they are right (and I think they're defiantly onto something) then homosexuality as a choice and not genetics seems to be a failing argument. That's not to say one HAS to be predisposed to be homosexual.

Someone said that children growing up in homes of Homosexuals had a higher rate of homosexuality. The same can be said of Alcoholism, something the Christian Bible refers to as a sin. Alcholism is also well defined today by science as being a disease one can be genetically predisposed to, rather then the Biblical idea that it's purely the choice of the sinner.

So, because this study was used on rams. Have you drawn a parallel between rams and humans?

From that article

"This lends further support to the idea that homosexuality has biological underpinnings," Charles Roselli, a professor of physiology and pharmacology, said in an interview with the Corvallis Gazette-Times.
Professor Stormshak believes that "understanding sexual drives and the continuum of sexual behavior could possibly help explain the scientific basis of sexual assault [and] put an end to assertions that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice."

Do professor Stormshak mean homosexuality as a lifestyle choice for rams or humans?

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@oaktonarcher,

you (convientently) forgot something

A 1991 study of human brains of AIDS victims showed a similar hypothalamus size difference between gay and heterosexual men.
-From the link

you're only telling HALF the story

the article plainly says that the findings with Rams MATCHED a brain comparison done on AIDS victims. The differential was proportionate between Homosexual humans and their Heterosexual counterparts

if your going to quote something, read the whole thing first.

This being said, from the standpoint of the amount of "fault" the "sinner" has would be comparable to blaming Bi-Polar people for choosing to be mentaly unstable...

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@Silverchild79,

Silverchild79;14189 wrote:

I would support that children, in an attempt to identify with their parents, have a tendency to adopt the belief systems of said parents regardless of sexual identity.

please only one two or quotes, I feel are needed. if you need more, feel free: Where exactly does the Bible say Alcoholism is a sin?

Is it your position that the Holy Bible defining Alcoholism is purely the choice of the sinner, stemming from the concept of free will or do you have specific quotes? Again I feel one or two are needed, if you need more feel free.

I can understand why science uses this definition instead of looking to the Holy Bible for answers. I believe Alcoholism is defined as a disease. I adopt that definition from Alcoholics Anonymous. I would spectulate that AA uses that definition to detach any moral judgment to their members.

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@chuckc cv,

Homosexual is not a sin unless homosexual person has sex with the same sex. If he does not do what homo does he is not a sinner. If he has no desire why condemn him...It is the desire that put you to commit sin. In James chap 1 verse 13 onward says " let no one say when he is tempted "Iam tempted by God" for God can n ot be tempted with evil and he himself tempted no one; but each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin and sin when it is fullgrown brings forth death"...

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@chuckc cv,

chuckc;14195 wrote:

I would support that children, in an attempt to identify with their parents, have a tendency to adopt the belief systems of said parents regardless of sexual identity.

please only one two or quotes, I feel are needed. if you need more, feel free: Where exactly does the Bible say Alcoholism is a sin?

Is it your position that the Holy Bible defining Alcoholism is purely the choice of the sinner, stemming from the concept of free will or do you have specific quotes? Again I feel one or two are needed, if you need more feel free.

I can understand why science uses this definition instead of looking to the Holy Bible for answers. I believe Alcoholism is defined as a disease. I adopt that definition from Alcoholics Anonymous. I would speculate that AA uses that definition to detach any moral judgment to their members.

The Bible declares "drunkenness" as a sin, even though in the Water to Wine miracle Jesus clearly waits to dish out the hooch until after the weeding party had started drinking. The only verse in the bible where it condoms moderate use is when it "causes a brother to stumble" which is directed at several activities rather then drink alone.

The problem is that "drunkenness" to the point where it interferes with your life is more often then not a disease based from a genetic disposition. Sin, by it's very natural, is a conscious, controllable decision to violate "God's Law" (see garden of Eden). This is where the Bible conflicts with what we now know to be medical fact. There were no doubt countless Alcoholics who were labeled as sinners in ancient times, but we now know (beyond a reasonable debate) that these people weren't deciding for themselves. They were caught by a disease they didn't know about and therefore couldn't control.

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@Silverchild79,

Silverchild79;14194 wrote:

you (convientently) forgot something

A 1991 study of human brains of AIDS victims showed a similar hypothalamus size difference between gay and heterosexual men.
-From the link

you're only telling HALF the story

the article plainly says that the findings with Rams MATCHED a brain comparison done on AIDS victims. The differential was proportionate between Homosexual humans and their Heterosexual counterparts

if your going to quote something, read the whole thing first.

This being said, from the standpoint of the amount of "fault" the "sinner" has would be comparable to blaming Bi-Polar people for choosing to be mentaly unstable...

Thank you for pointing out my exclusion regarding the article.

Please more clarification (do you have link to that 1991 article). I should probably read that article.

My apologies. I thought we were discussing this study: Oregon State University (OSU) animal researchers in conjunction with the U.S. Department of Agriculture's (USDA) Dubois, Idaho-based Sheep Experiment Station released a report on an OSU-USDA study which was initiated in 1995 after breeders asked the government to determine why some rams bought as breeding studs showed no interest in females. The researchers are working under a $2.8 million grant from the National Institutes of Health in hopes of developing a test which can determine the likelihood of a ram being female-oriented before it is sold as a stud."

So again are you drawing a parallel between ram behavior and human behavior OR are you are drawing a behavioral parallel based on similarities between different gendered ram brains and different sexually oriented human brain sizes. Please clarify your position.

1 Reply

@chuckc cv,

chuckc;14201 wrote:

Thank you for pointing out my exclusion regarding the article.

Please more clarification (do you have link to that 1991 article). I should probably read that article.

My apologies. I thought we were discussing this study: Oregon State University (OSU) animal researchers in conjunction with the U.S. Department of Agriculture's (USDA) Dubois, Idaho-based Sheep Experiment Station released a report on an OSU-USDA study which was initiated in 1995 after breeders asked the government to determine why some rams bought as breeding studs showed no interest in females. The researchers are working under a $2.8 million grant from the National Institutes of Health in hopes of developing a test which can determine the likelihood of a ram being female-oriented before it is sold as a stud."

So again are you drawing a parallel between ram behavior and human behavior OR are you are drawing a behavioral parallel based on similarities between different gendered ram brains and different sexually oriented human brain sizes. Please clarify your position.

My point was that OSU found that there was a genetic reason for Rams being gay. And that the reason for that genetic difference was also found in humans who were gay. It's collaborating evidence, and that's why I felt it was of interest to the debate...

I really don't have agenda when it comes to stuff like this, some people want to say that it's purely choice and base this opinion on what doesn't challenge the stance of their religion. I find that kind of, fingers in your ears yelling "LALALALA I can't hear you" stance is ignorant when confronted with a real, factual study. I read the findings and ask myself "what can I conclude", rather then say "This is how it is" and then look for the proof after the fact.

Question, then research, then answer is the correct path to truth

Answer, then research, then not allowing questions is the correct path to ignorance

So I guess I'm not drawing a parallel, it's already there, I'm just showing you the line Very Happy

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@oaktonarcher,

I used this definition: Sin is a term used mainly in a religious context to describe an act that violates a moral rule. And yes based on that I would agree that to commit a sin is a choice.

I define sin in conjunction with the (perhaps labeled as a Christian perspective) seven Deadly Sins. I am aware of the Christian perspective of the "garden of eden". I, personally do not believe this to be fact. I believe it is a way to explain human creation from a Christian view.

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@chuckc cv,

Wine was made thru the process of permentation wherein sugar became alcohol. It is made by God. the Bible does not condemn drinking wine or alcohol but too much wine. In 1Timothy chap 5 verse 23 says "no longer drink only water but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailment" It is not sin to eat meat but too much meat is glutony. It is not sin to drink wine but too much is a drunkard. "Dont be drunk with wine but be filled with spirit...."

1 Reply

@Silverchild79,

Silverchild79;14202 wrote:

My point was that OSU found that there was a genetic reason for Rams being gay. And that the reason for that genetic difference was also found in humans who were gay. It's collaborating evidence, and that's why I felt it was of interest to the debate...

So I guess I'm not drawing a parallel, it's already there, I'm just showig you the line

Interesting. Now, I can understand you point regarding that article and I respect you for it. I still support the view that homosexuality is a choice.

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@chico,

chico;14204 wrote:

Wine was made thru the process of permentation wherein sugar became alcohol. It is made by God. the Bible does not condemn drinking wine or alcohol but too much wine. In 1Timothy chap 5 verse 23 says "no longer drink only water but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailment" It is not sin to eat meat but too much meat is glutony. It is not sin to drink wine but too much is a drunkard. "Dont be drunk with wine but be filled with spirit...."

thank you Chico. I can see your view based on the Holy Bible. I do agree that gluttony is a sin.

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@Silverchild79,

Silverchild79;14202 wrote:

My point was that OSU found that there was a genetic reason for Rams being gay. And that the reason for that genetic difference was also found in humans who were gay. It's collaborating evidence, and that's why I felt it was of interest to the debate...

I really don't have agenda when it comes to stuff like this, some people want to say that it's purely choice and base this opinion on what doesn't challenge the stance of their religion. I find that kind of, fingers in your ears yelling "LALALALA I can't hear you" stance is ignorant when confronted with a real, factual study. I read the findings and ask myself "what can I conclude", rather then say "This is how it is" and then look for the proof after the fact.

Question, then research, then answer is the correct path to truth

Answer, then research, then not allowing questions is the correct path to ignorance

So I guess I'm not drawing a parallel, it's already there, I'm just showing you the line

Thank you. I do completely agree with your correct path to truth and correct path to ignorance. I formulate my opinions this way. I try to look at issues from both views. Search for evidence. Ultimately in some ways, I then use my moral compass to formulate my personal view.

Hmmm.....seems I may need to look for documented studies supporting my view on this specific topic. Something else to add to my reading list.

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Is Homosexuality a Choice?

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