10
   

Philosophers think they know it all - they are never wrong.

 
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 01:10 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
We'll talk tomorrow. I assume we'll disagree, but, so what.
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 01:20 am
@ossobuco,
Here another tropical ady is about to start ! Wearing Ibiza-style pareo, glazed my pie but found out Birthday is tomorrow... I have a Day-Off ! Sleep well
0 Replies
 
thack45
 
  2  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 07:21 am
@The Joker006,
The Joker006 wrote:

Well well.

I've had an interesting day. I could have left a knife on the table and sat around for it to plunge into my back, thats how I feel right now. I don't take philisophy too seriously it's good for the sayings and that but it's pointless. It's full of people who think they know it all if you enter a discussion with one it never ends! Everything you try and say is never right. I'm done with this rubbish, it really is a load of nonsence. We are people at the end of the day, we have lives to live a touch of philosophy is good for us all but for people of bang on about it all day are icolating themselfs. Sad really.

Well it's been good while it lasted. I do appreciate the help that has been given to me and I thank those who have helped.

I would give it another 24 hours and my account will be gone forever.

Happy discussion. But I have a life to live and I aint got no time to argue about it.
*I have made two points in the quote bold*

I came to this forum searching for knowledge and wisdom - ultimately for my own contentment, with a thought in mind that others might offer some insight which I am not able to muster from my own mind. I have at the same time contributed to some topics on the forum and have consequently met with opposing ideas at nearly every turn. How I might respond to these however, is distinctly my own decision...

As Ken mentioned, there are plenty of people who have never considered philosophy. How many of these think they "know it all"? I, in my own mind of course, tend to think that I know it all. I came here expecting to be intelectually humbled. If what I say is "not right", then I can only choose to argue it further, acquiesce, or give up. But make no mistake, this is not the "Thought Affirmation Forum".
0 Replies
 
Sentience
 
  2  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 07:25 am
Descartes - "Everything is to be doubted."

Nothing I know is certain, and there remain a multitude of mysteries in the universe.
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 07:26 am
@Sentience,
Dubito ergo sum ?
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 07:38 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy wrote:
But there seems to be a special quality when it comes to philosophy farewells.


yeah yeah
special special

there are drama queens in every venue, every specialty area - they all think they have "special qualities"

they're humans

a cashew is an almond is a nut
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 07:42 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:


yeah yeah
special special

there are drama queens in every venue, every specialty area - they all think they have "special qualities"

Exactly... But an almond is not nuts, technisch gesproken

a cashew is an almond is a nut
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 07:46 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
I suspect kennethamy would be preferred to be considered a nut, not a fruit.

but we can modify it

how about

a cashew is a pistachio is a nut

mmmmmmm, no, doesn't scan as well

(I picked almond because it scanned, not because of its precision)
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 07:55 am
@ehBeth,
Kennethamy tutti fruti ? U must be paranuts !
Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Sentience
 
  2  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 07:55 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
Yes, I have written in multiple other threads that I do believe that if you can think, you know for sure you exist. Though 'dubito' is a common mistake, Descartes's philosophy was 'cogito ergo sum,' but their essentially the same.
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 07:59 am
@Sentience,
I thought of dubito in high school because I could never make up my mind. I still believe "magic" as well as "science"; I just not convinced by either. Sounds doubtfull... I am no extreme rationalist, so I live in uncertainty about the world around me.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 01:12 pm
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:
It means that anyone who says that "hard science" is less prone to drama and hysteria doesn't know their subject.


No, it doesn't. Saying that you have anecdotal experience with drama in hard sciences simply does nothing at all to say that it is not less prone to drama.

It merely establishes the existence of drama, not the relative prevalence. And he wasn't even talking about academics, he was talking about forums.
0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 02:26 pm
@Sentience,
Sentience wrote:

Yes, I have written in multiple other threads that I do believe that if you can think, you know for sure you exist. Though 'dubito' is a common mistake, Descartes's philosophy was 'cogito ergo sum,' but their essentially the same.


Actually, if you do anything at all, you exist, since it would be difficult to do anything without existing. The reason that thinking is important, is that (according to Descartes) although, "I walk, therefore I exist" is just as good an argument as, "I think, therefore I exist", we cannot be certain that we are walking, but we can be certain that we are thinking. So. although "I walk, therefore I exist" is equally valid with, "I think, therefore I exist", the advantage of the latter is that we can know for certain that its premise is true, whereas, we cannot know for certain that the premise is true in the case of the former argument. And why can we know for certain that we think? Descartes' argument here is that although we can doubt that we walk, we cannot doubt that we think, since doubting is a kind of thinking, so that if we try to doubt that we think, we are, thereby, thinking. So that we think is indubitable, but that we walk is not indubitable.
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 02:39 pm
I think the mere fact one is thinking is philosophy. This is the way human lifted themselves from the animal stage. The better you are at it the more famously you be and this fame is associated with philosophy. However, people do think about their lot in life and we call it philosophizing.

There was drama in the Calculus and gravity matter with Isaac Newton sparring with Sir Robert Hook, Gottfried Leibniz and Bernoulli. They recognized the supremacy of Newton. Then there was the case between Edison and Tesla over the electric motors. It could go on and on.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 02:52 pm
@talk72000,
talk72000 wrote:

I think the mere fact one is thinking is philosophy. This is the way human lifted themselves from the animal stage. The better you are at it the more famously you be and this fame is associated with philosophy. However, people do think about their lot in life and we call it philosophizing.

There was drama in the Calculus and gravity matter with Isaac Newton sparring with Sir Robert Hook, Gottfried Leibniz and Bernoulli. They recognized the supremacy of Newton. Then there was the case between Edison and Tesla over the electric motors. It could go on and on.


So if I am thinking longingly of the great steak I had last night, I am philosophizing?
manored
 
  2  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 03:11 pm
@The Joker006,
The Joker006 wrote:

Well well.

I've had an interesting day. I could have left a knife on the table and sat around for it to plunge into my back, thats how I feel right now. I don't take philisophy too seriously it's good for the sayings and that but it's pointless. It's full of people who think they know it all if you enter a discussion with one it never ends! Everything you try and say is never right. I'm done with this rubbish, it really is a load of nonsence. We are people at the end of the day, we have lives to live a touch of philosophy is good for us all but for people of bang on about it all day are icolating themselfs. Sad really.

Well it's been good while it lasted. I do appreciate the help that has been given to me and I thank those who have helped.

I would give it another 24 hours and my account will be gone forever.

Happy discussion. But I have a life to live and I aint got no time to argue about it.
Its natural for discussions to never end or end without a true conclusion as most people end up emotionally involved with their "side" and keep defending it even then they run out of logical arguments. Besides that, those who discuss philosopy grow to be extremelly good at coming up with new arguments making the discussions indeed long-lasting. Actually, its very very rare to see a philosophical discussion end with one person convincing the other person fully of their view. Usually the discussion goes on until a common point is reached and then ends, but most participants come out with an upgraded form of their old view rather than a different one.

It seems you dont not know how forums work. You dont need to spend the whole day here to keep a discussion up, as anything you post will be avaible here for an indefinite amount of time for other people to read. I think its actually better to take discussions slowly, as otherwise you tend to let emotions take away the best of you, and through the day you can go on thinking and realize things you would not without spending some time thinking about it, and then feed then to the thread. I usually take part on the forum only once a day, from 10 minutes to 1 hour depending of how big the threads I post on are =)

kennethamy wrote:

It is just that I would think that someone who joined a chemistry forum would have some coherent idea of what chemistry was, and not be embittered (say) if people talked about bonding. But all bets are off in philosophy.
Three golden rules of the programmer:
"The machine is stupid"
"The user is stupid"
"The programmer is lazy"

The second one is the one im talking about here, and it means "Never make a program that requires intelligence from the user", more or less. I think that rule can also be applied to life in general. Im pretty sure there is someone out there who joined a chemistry forum without any coherent idea of what chemistry is, and then proceeded to make a dramatic exit afteryards =)

Robert Gentel wrote:

You may be surprised. Lots of people like to make dramatic forum exits (they also tend to be people who come back out of retirement very quickly) and the topic of the forum doesn't really matter, it's about them. It's like the suicide note of forums and you'll find it everywhere.
Indeed, I have seen quite some. Its like people fell irritated that nobody cares they are not liking the forum or certain members, and make a dramatic exit in the hopes of making people care. Off course, that only makes them seen like huge idiots in front of everyone else, who then become glad they are leaving.

melonkali wrote:

I've decided that would be a fitting epitaph on my tombstone: I did not run away.
If I read that in a tombstone, I would think: "Oh, so thats why she is dead!" =)

Maybe you should add "from life" to the end. But that wouldnt be as cool, would it? =)

Fido wrote:

The examined life isn't worth any more to its owner than the unexamined life... No one willingly parts with their life, which is the proof we need
What about suiciders?

ehBeth wrote:

yeah yeah
special special

there are drama queens in every venue, every specialty area - they all think they have "special qualities"
Ever area is different, so I think they really do. There are many different forms of drama, but, deep down, its just drama =)

thack45 wrote:

I came to this forum searching for knowledge and wisdom - ultimately for my own contentment, with a thought in mind that others might offer some insight which I am not able to muster from my own mind. I have at the same time contributed to some topics on the forum and have consequently met with opposing ideas at nearly every turn. How I might respond to these however, is distinctly my own decision...

As Ken mentioned, there are plenty of people who have never considered philosophy. How many of these think they "know it all"? I, in my own mind of course, tend to think that I know it all. I came here expecting to be intelectually humbled. If what I say is "not right", then I can only choose to argue it further, acquiesce, or give up. But make no mistake, this is not the "Thought Affirmation Forum".
Indeed, I think people who do not discuss philosopy are much more prone to intelectual arrogance than people who do. But both are =)

Pepijn Sweep wrote:

4 Me Thinking & Information Exchange are two hands on one belly (Dutch proverb). I love to learn & meet people to talk about it. About lots of things.

4 Me a day "I know it all" is a day lost, because I lost my curiosity.

4 Me telling some-one to leave a thread is an act of impotancy; surely a good Philosopher would know how to deal with the situation.
Nice principles, I agree with then all.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 08:06 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
No, certainly not all people. My reply was re what Dlowan was talking about. Re Robert's later comment, I have had close association with english department faculties, with one friend who ran a psychoanalytic institute, and with a department of medicine. Lots of drama everywhere, however anecdotally one takes my comment. I hadn't caught at the time that the point was about forums.

Tidbit - my father was a philosophy major and poet laureate of his university. I now forget the exact years, but I think he left medical school (one of the boys had to leave to take care of the mother and he was the youngest) in 1926. I always felt lucky, having him as a father, whatever his apparent progress in life.
north
 
  2  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 10:30 pm
@The Joker006,
The Joker006 wrote:

Well well.

I've had an interesting day. I could have left a knife on the table and sat around for it to plunge into my back, thats how I feel right now. I don't take philisophy too seriously it's good for the sayings and that but it's pointless. It's full of people who think they know it all if you enter a discussion with one it never ends! Everything you try and say is never right. I'm done with this rubbish, it really is a load of nonsence. We are people at the end of the day, we have lives to live a touch of philosophy is good for us all but for people of bang on about it all day are icolating themselfs. Sad really.

Well it's been good while it lasted. I do appreciate the help that has been given to me and I thank those who have helped.

I would give it another 24 hours and my account will be gone forever.

Happy discussion. But I have a life to live and I aint got no time to argue about it.



philosophers know what they know and think what they think , prove what they prove and explore what thoughts or thinking they explore

philosophy is about truth , in the end , even if it gets distorted at times

to be a philosopher can be and is , as complicated as understanding the Universe

thats what makes Philosophy so diverse and important to understanding and therefore knowledge of life and things










0 Replies
 
Reconstructo
 
  2  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 10:49 pm
@The Joker006,
Too much "philosophy" is indeed just noise, but there is a core in the tradition that is indeed worthy. As far as wisdom-for-life goes, we shouldn't writers like Marcus Aurelius or Epictetus or the living example, perhaps exaggerated, of a Diogenes.

On the other hand, the more theoretical philosophers can enrich life less directly, by presenting new interpretations of the human experience that make this experience grander. Unfortunately, much "philosophy" is just an insincere pissing contest, a sad sort of sport for those who are as angry as boxers but not as fit. In my opinion, don't judge philosophy by the negative side of forums. Instead, get a book like Will Durant's Story of Philosophy which is a great introduction. I wish you well and sympathize with your frustration.
kennethamy
 
  2  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2010 07:35 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo wrote:

Too much "philosophy" is indeed just noise, but there is a core in the tradition that is indeed worthy. As far as wisdom-for-life goes, we shouldn't writers like Marcus Aurelius or Epictetus or the living example, perhaps exaggerated, of a Diogenes.

On the other hand, the more theoretical philosophers can enrich life less directly, by presenting new interpretations of the human experience that make this experience grander. Unfortunately, much "philosophy" is just an insincere pissing contest, a sad sort of sport for those who are as angry as boxers but not as fit. In my opinion, don't judge philosophy by the negative side of forums. Instead, get a book like Will Durant's Story of Philosophy which is a great introduction. I wish you well and sympathize with your frustration.


What is the criterion of "too much philosophy", and how are the more theoretical philosophers to be distinguished from the less theoretical philosophers? I have a sinking feeling that your more theoretical philosophers, and your philosophers who do too much philosophy are the very same people.
 

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