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should the Davis-Bacon Act be suspended for gulf oil clean-up work?

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 03:48 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

Just as I thought!


This is not particularly interesting, Roger. If you don't have anything meaningful to add in response, why even bother writing anything at all?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 03:49 pm
You Republicans?!?!?!

dys??????????
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 03:50 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

You Republicans?!?!?!

dys??????????


Roger, not Dys Laughing

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 03:54 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

You Republicans?!?!?!

dys??????????
it's the new me.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 03:55 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Yes that my feelings to, any excuse repeat any excuse they can come up with to decease the living standards of the people doing the very unpleasant jobs of this society at the same time crying about the tax burdens of the one percent that own 40 percent of the total wealth as it is!
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 04:37 pm
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

there was a time I thought it was possible to have reasoned discourse on this forum, I obviously am a slow learner.


Now it's all about snowball fights and lumping folks into sides. I hate it and seldom participate. You're right. There was a time when that was possible. I don't think it exists here any more.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 04:39 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

dyslexia wrote:

there was a time I thought it was possible to have reasoned discourse on this forum, I obviously am a slow learner.


Now it's all about snowball fights and lumping folks into sides. I hate it and seldom participate. You're right. There was a time when that was possible. I don't think it exists here any more.
sad, really sad.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 05:02 pm
Here's the short version of the main act.

Quote:
Basic Provisions/Requirements

The Davis-Bacon Act requires that all contractors and subcontractors performing on federal contracts (and contractors or subcontractors performing on federally assisted contracts under the related Acts) in excess of $2,000 pay their laborers and mechanics not less than the prevailing wage rates and fringe benefits listed in the contract’s Davis-Bacon wage determination for corresponding classes of laborers and mechanics employed on similar projects in the area. Davis-Bacon labor standards clauses must be included in covered contracts.

Apprentices may be employed at less than predetermined rates if they are in an apprenticeship program registered with the Department of Labor or with a state apprenticeship agency recognized by the Department. Trainees may be employed at less than predetermined rates if they are in a training program certified by the Department.

Contractors and subcontractors on prime contracts in excess of $100,000 are required, pursuant to the Contract Work Hours and Safety Standards Act, to pay employees one and one-half times their basic rates of pay for all hours over 40 worked on covered contract work in a workweek. Covered contractors and subcontractors are also required to pay employees weekly and to submit weekly certified payroll records to the contracting agency.


and the reference to the related acts

Quote:
Relation to State, Local, and Other Federal Laws

Since 1931, Congress has extended the Davis-Bacon prevailing wage requirements to some 60 related Acts which provide federal assistance for construction through loans, grants, loan guarantees, and insurance. These Acts include by reference the requirements for payment of the prevailing wages in accordance with the Davis-Bacon Act. Examples of the related Acts are the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, the Federal-Aid Highway Acts, the Housing and Community Development Act of 1974, and the Federal Water Pollution Control Act.


It doesn't seem that there's anything in the big picture of the main act that would benefit the cleanup/control of this situation if D-B was repealed. The devil is in the details, however. What do you think would happen if D-B was repealed that won't happen otherwise, or would happen faster/better with a repeal of the act?
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 05:11 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
Now it's all about snowball fights and lumping folks into sides. I hate it and seldom participate. You're right. There was a time when that was possible. I don't think it exists here any more.

Oh, I don't know. This thread was really a question from dys. And there was some good input. I learned a lot and I love engaging with Roger. I'm satisfied.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 05:27 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
What do you think would happen if D-B was repealed that won't happen otherwise, or would happen faster/better with a repeal of the act?
I don't know, actually I don't have a clue which is why I asked the question in the first place.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 05:33 pm
@panzade,
panzade wrote:

Quote:
Now it's all about snowball fights and lumping folks into sides. I hate it and seldom participate. You're right. There was a time when that was possible. I don't think it exists here any more.

Oh, I don't know. This thread was really a question from dys. And there was some good input. I learned a lot and I love engaging with Roger. I'm satisfied.
yes, I agree, and interesting and informing dialogue until BillRW entered.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 05:47 pm
@dyslexia,
Quote:
yes, I agree, and interesting and informing dialogue until BillRW entered.


First it is BillRM not BillRW second feel free to used the ignore function.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 05:48 pm
@BillRM,
done
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 05:50 pm
@dyslexia,
And I will not even get to say good-by to you.................


0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 06:06 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

It doesn't seem that there's anything in the big picture of the main act that would benefit the cleanup/control of this situation if D-B was repealed. The devil is in the details, however. What do you think would happen if D-B was repealed that won't happen otherwise, or would happen faster/better with a repeal of the act?


My own experience, again, was the state level equivalent. Compliance was a time consuming hassle extending over a period of several weeks initially, but probably only wasted 8 or 10 hours. Compliance reports had to be provided during the course of each contract, in detail, by name of each employee. Each employee had to be fit into a standard catagory. We paid bi-weekly. The report required a breakdown on a weekly basis.

On the employee side, operators were fully, and even overpaid according to the charts. Some, but not all roughnecks required periodic pay adjustments. We are talking about less than $20 for any two week period for people making 40,000 - 60,000 per year, including overtime.

Part of the beast involved classifying, as even in an oilfield state, there were no oilfield catagories to work with. State suggestion, if followed would have had everybody working in an underground mining classification, which is better paid because of hazards and working conditions. I got them to move to surface mining. I suspect that oil cleanup work would fit into some sort of hazardous chemical process, rather than general labor. Reasonable, but I don't see anyone working in plastic hazmat suits in hot climate at anything like the general labor rate, anyway.

Keep in mind that oil & gas well servicing has nothing to do with mining, except that something is removed from below ground level.

In other words, my perception is that it is a big time waster for payroll & accounting, with negligible benefits to the employee.

0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 06:27 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
The Davis Bacon act does not apply to BP or any commercial contractor acting on its own. It applies only to contractors working under a Federal government contract. The "prevailing wage" determinations are made periodically by the Labor Department, based on local Union wages. In most cases they are 7% - 10% higher than non-union wages.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 06:55 pm
@georgeob1,
I think we are all aware of that fact however BP will be paying back the funds that the Federal government spend on the contractors that the government had to hired to deal with the spill so indirectly in this case it does apply to BP.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 07:29 pm
@BillRM,
Your theory doesn't pass the reality test.
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 07:34 pm
Quote:
BP is responsible for paying the wages of an estimated 27,000 people who have signed up to work in the Gulf on the clean-up operation after the explosion on the Deepwater Horizon rig in April. Classed as "volunteers" by BP, they work for myriad government agencies and contractors.


Quote:
The lowest-skilled workers are those who clear beaches of seaweed, driftwood and other debris to make it easier to clean the sand once oil reaches the shore. They earn $10 an hour. Those working for engineering contractors – building sand berms, for example – earn much more.

An attorney advising some of the contractors said that BP had told them to pay workers for the days they claimed to have been on site. The contractors were told not to quibble over the claims even if they suspected they were bogus.

The lawyer added that BP did not want to attract negative publicity by quibbling over relatively small amounts of money with local people, many of whom face economic ruin because of the disaster.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jun/24/bp-cleanup-contractors-pay-fraud
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2010 09:48 pm
@roger,
Quote:
Your theory doesn't pass the reality test.


In what way and in what manner are you refering to?

 

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