@guigus,
guigus wrote:
Fido wrote:
guigus wrote:
Fido wrote:
guigus wrote:
Fido wrote:Pyramids are a five sided object with a square base and triangular sides, but squarish does not make square, and triangular does not make a triangle...
Conversely, without triangles nothing would be triangular, and without squares nothing would be squared.
In a sense, you are correct since without our concepts everything would be what it is, and yet, without concepts we would not be ourselves either... Humanity is its own creation...It does not matter what we started out as because as we have conceived, so we have become...
Take care: we do not create ourselves just as we like. Concepts need objective reality as much as objective reality needs concepts.
I am certain it is a predicate of sorts, that objective reality exists with or without concepts.
And what about all that talk on moral forms?
Of forms (concepts, ideas )by which understand our world, some are physical and some moral, and this is an old method of classification as one looks at the health of an army by its physic, or phyisical well being, or its morale, or spiritual well being... What is purely moral is spiritual, as in forms like freedom, or justice which have no physical properties and which are no less found necessary... Just so with physical forms... There is no common identity without common consent, and so, it is the moral relationship which makes all physical classification possible... It is just an observation, and one I can suggest, and in no sense prove... It is like saying physical forms have being and meaning, and moral forms only have meaning... With physical forms, we do not know all about any given subject, but capture the meaning of them as essence, a spiritual quality... It is this capture of the physical world spiritually which allows, or goes along with mankinds spiritual conception of self, self consciousness, self awareness...
It is the rationalism, and reductionism of mankind, the thinking of things as individual things in themselves which has led to great advances in science, but also great wars, genocides, mass slaughters of civilians, and the great waste and exploitation of the environment... A native having a spiritual sense would never have considered the chain of events that led to the gulf oil disaster.... We can only allow such crimes because we think of all of nature as so many objects and ourselves too, as so many objects... Objectification of people allows for every sort of crime to be commited aganst them.. It is the ultimate justification, and it is immoral... Morality is the only task left to philosophy... We understand enough to get by when we understand enough to destroy the environment and ourselves... It is the moral sense we lack, the ability to see our lives through our forms of relationship, to see the forms through the relationship, and the relationship through the form which is keeping us from spiritual fulfilment... We know how to think... We are rational enough, but we have let immoral reason destroy the basis of morality in our lives...
Look at those who do the best in America -and it is those with working moral societes, who bring their morality to America to suffer the acid bath of A-culturalization....Law and religion have worked without pity on the natural forms of morality until even the family is in danger... Parents do not have authority, but influence; and they must settle for that.. Law is reasonable, as a form until is is bent to serve the rich alone; but if it does not provide justice it will never build a nation no matter how many natives are fed to it...And we cannot fix it, and we cannot get beyond it because we have no formal consciousness, because we see only the form as a thing, an object and not as something built by people out of moral forms for a moral purpose... We see the government and the law as things, and objects in themselves; which means we see them as real, when they are not; but only a reality built out of a moral form...Look at how government surrounds itself with impediments, and takes on the archetecture of bygone civilizations... It is to look real...But it has no more reality than the realtionship it was designed to feed and nurture, which is now gangrenous...
When government destroys the morality, the moral, spiritual, sense of the people, it destroys the ability of the people to demand change... An immoral people cannot be free, and a free people must be moral... It is self control grown out of a spritual sense of self that makes self government possible... We have never had true self government in this country, and freedom here has always been licence... As a social form built out of a moral form: Virtue; it has failed because the moral understanding behind it was flawed, and moral understandings and all understanding are, and will always be: FLAWED.
Yet, Clearly, Jefferson shows in the Declaration of Independence that he had a sense of forms, and also a sense of the fact, that all human progress requires an change of forms... His morality was metphysical; thinking all men Created.. How shall we move on when we know all mankind and all life comes from a common root??? I think a formal understanding is the beginning of moral understanding, that in learning how to think we will know what to think, and how to reach a moral understaning of our reality so that we do not cut our environmental branch off from under us... The spiritual sense of humanity has a purely practical purpose as philosophy itself does...
