OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jun, 2010 04:12 am
@Transcend,
firefly wrote:



A phobia is a learned anxiety response. No one is born with phobias.


Transcend wrote:
Phobias can be inherited too, but that's irrelevant.

The point here is that the very word fear has stopped us from discussing what it is.
Because fear itself isn't a word is it?
Fear is an emotion. It is represented by a word.





David
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  2  
Reply Mon 28 Jun, 2010 04:33 am
Fear is the emotion that signals an awareness of danger. It can take many forms and just as many reactions. Whats more interesting is our response to fear.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jun, 2010 08:14 am
@Transcend,
Quote:
Phobias can be inherited too, but that's irrelevant.


No, there is no definitive evidence that specific phobias can be inherited. You do inherit your central nervous system, and some people seem to be more predisposed to developing anxiety disorders (including phobias), possibly due to some genetic influence.

Fear is an innate physiological response of the body to a situation of known danger. It is accompanied by muscle tension, increased heart rate, and shortness of breath. It produces a sense of terror, dread. panic, etc. and motivates behavior to flee the danger.

Anxiety is a fear response that occurs when no danger is actually present.

What is it about fear that you can't/don't understand?
Transcend
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jun, 2010 09:22 am
@firefly,
I'm looking at fear in its entirety.

Fear is not just a phsiological response to danger. What about sub-conscious fears? Fears that aren't immediately in one's mind?

This is intended to be more than just a medical discussion where we argue semantics, the idea is to see what fear really is, how it manifests itself (apart from psysiological ways, such as desire: the root cause of much desire is fear, if you look closely) and how one would rid fear from their life.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jun, 2010 10:13 am
@Transcend,
Quote:
What about sub-conscious fears? Fears that aren't immediately in one's mind?


That is what I would call anxiety, more specifically, latent anxiety.

Quote:
This is intended to be more than just a medical discussion where we argue semantics


This isn't just arguing semantics, it's an attempt to define terms more precisely. If your terms aren't clearly defined, everything else in the discussion becomes vague and muddled. Defining what you are talking about is part of thinking clearly.

Quote:
how one would rid fear from their life


I don't think you can rid true instinctive fear from your life, according to the way I have defined fear (an innate response to a present recognized danger). It's a basic emotional response and a survival mechanism. We need to escape/flee from real dangers.

I think we can rid ourselves of a lot of unnecessary anxieties (fear responses when no danger is actually present), and there are many different ways to do that. However, we still need a certain amount of anxiety to facilitate effective social functioning. We can't go around being totally impulsive and uninhibited. Anxiety helps us to control ourselves because we fear negative social repercussions if we act in inappropriate or socially undesirable ways.

Quote:
the root cause of much desire is fear


I'm not sure I agree with that at all. That's like saying the objects of what you desire have no positive rewarding value in and of themselves, you'd be desiring something only to help you avoid a negative unpleasant state of fear if you were without it. Desire (depending on how you define it Smile) is based on a lot more than fear.







djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jun, 2010 10:29 am
fear is and always has been, that which waits beyond the fire light

we've improved on the camp fire as years go by, but there are still dark corners waiting for the light
0 Replies
 
Transcend
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jun, 2010 11:58 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:


I don't think you can rid true instinctive fear from your life, according to the way I have defined fear (an innate response to a present recognized danger). It's a basic emotional response and a survival mechanism. We need to escape/flee from real dangers.


I agree we can't rid those kinds of fears. That is a healthy response. But what of the fear of losing the girlfriend, the car, house, job? Now, these are more than just survival instincts, are they not?

Quote:
I think we can rid ourselves of a lot of unnecessary anxieties (fear responses when no danger is actually present), and there are many different ways to do that. However, we still need a certain amount of anxiety to facilitate effective social functioning. We can't go around being totally impulsive and uninhibited. Anxiety helps us to control ourselves because we fear negative social repercussions if we act in inappropriate or socially undesirable ways.


So social convention makes a person fearful? Isn't there something terribly sad about that?


Quote:
Quote:
the root cause of much desire is fear


I'm not sure I agree with that at all. That's like saying the objects of what you desire have no positive rewarding value in and of themselves, you'd be desiring something only to help you avoid a negative unpleasant state of fear if you were without it. Desire (depending on how you define it Smile) is based on a lot more than fear.


Fear is most certainly a cause of desire. There is no way you can argue against it. Why do people desire to be powerful, to have the comfortable job, the wife? Because they're afraid of something: not fitting in society, being the down-trodden person of no merit, failure.

If you disagree with that, then please say what desire is based upon.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jun, 2010 01:32 pm
@Transcend,
Quote:
So social convention makes a person fearful? Isn't there something terribly sad about that?


It's more that social conditioning causes us to feel anxiety about many things. Is that sad? Not really, it keeps us civilized. Look at it this way, without it, we wouldn't even be toilet trained.Laughing

If I desire power, I may want the influence to get things done my own way, and when I want them done. Power would eliminate many sources of frustration in everyday life. That's not related to fear, it's the positive advantages of having control.

If I desire great wealth, it's because money helps to buy and obtain the things that can make life easier, more comfortable, more pleasurable, more interesting, etc. That's not related to fear, it's the positive advantage of having a great deal of money.

Not everyone is motivated by a fear of being a failure, although I'm sure that is true of some people. I honestly think I've been motivated by a need to succeed, to live up to my own standards for myself, and I don't think I ever worried about being a failure because I've never thought of myself as a person of no merit. Fears (particularly social anxieties) probably inhibit more people than they motivate. Fears are better at helping us to avoid things than they are at pushing us toward positive goals. A really profound fear of failure could keep one from doing anything, rather than trying something and failing at it.

These days, because of the economy, lots of people worry about losing their job, their house, their car. For some people these are real concerns, there is a danger they can lose their source of income, and with it, their home, their car, and everything else. Some have already lost their jobs and incomes and are faced with basic facts of survival--how to pay for having a roof over one's head, how to pay for food to feed oneself and one's children. If one has limited resources, it's difficult to reduce such anxieties because there is little control over the situation causing such stress. Some people can cope better than others by virtue of being more ingenious or creative about tackling the situation. Some people can simply cope better with feelings of anxiety (they may have religious faith, or self confidence, or more flexibility, etc.).

Real worries about having one's house foreclosed on, because one just lost a job, are different than worrying about what people will think of you if you live in a modest home rather than a high-end abode, or if you drive a cheap used car rather than a brand new, fully loaded Mercedes. People who need to have the symbols of status, just to impress others, or to make themselves feel worthwhile, are being driven by unhealthy anxieties and insecurities. Those people would be better off ridding themselves of such fears and developing a better, more positive sense of self. If you constantly worry about what others will think of you, in terms of social status, you are always at the mercy of others opinions and attitudes. You'd be creating a self-perpetuating situation of anxiety for yourself. That sort of emotional baggage really should be ditched. Some social anxieties are inevitable, and some are likely beneficial, but others can be destructive. It's the latter ones we have to try to modify. That would free our energies to be directed toward other (hopefully more positive) things.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Mon 28 Jun, 2010 05:42 pm
My ex, a writer, was adamant that fear is the primary human motivation. (We used to argue about this..)
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jun, 2010 05:53 pm
@Transcend,
I have read some very interesting post and thought that I would leave you all with a link that may puzzle you even more. LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JvNwEMXLD8&feature=related
0 Replies
 
 

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