4
   

Oz Election Thread #4 - Gillard's Labor

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 09:15 pm
Snap!
Two long responses, almost at the same time! Smile
tenderfoot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 10:27 pm
WendyLou seems to be a political party follower who looks for the right things to say about the opposition and can see no problem with her own. Unfortunately it seems to me that the vast majority are like minded, whilst this continues... we will have the situation, where the minority party ends up with the power to dictate and steer a very unbalanced method of governing... Like having a lone shepherd looking after a flock of sheep and a flock of wolves in the same paddoc.
hingehead
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 11:38 pm
@msolga,
Heh, I have much to learn from your Julia-like conciliatory approach. I did try to be nice, but I have Tony tendencies.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 01:14 am
@hingehead,
Smile
Yes, you will have to curb your Tony-like tendencies, hinge! Wink

But seriously, I was bending over backwards in my response.
As you might have realized.

I just don't want anyone to think that they can't throw in a radically alternative position here to ours & not have their views considered.
I just don't want anyone to level the complaint that this thread is so partisan that no other opinion will be tolerated.
A bit of debate could be quite exciting, even!

I would love to see many more contributions to this thread.
Where are the rest of the Oz contributors?
You're out there, we know you are.
Come on. Join in on the discussion!

(But for the record, I stand by my assessment that the "schools program" funding did bugger all to improve our sadly struggling state schools. What a wasted opportunity. I try not to think about it too much, because I get really angry.)

0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 01:31 am
@tenderfoot,
Quote:
WendyLou seems to be a political party follower who looks for the right things to say about the opposition and can see no problem with her own. Unfortunately it seems to me that the vast majority are like minded, whilst this continues... we will have the situation, where the minority party ends up with the power to dictate and steer a very unbalanced method of governing... Like having a lone shepherd looking after a flock of sheep and a flock of wolves in the same paddoc


I'm sorry, tenderfoot, but I am honestly bamboozled about what you've said.

Are you questioning whether the Gillard government has a legitimate "right" to be governing or not?

If so, on what evidence do you base that opinion?

And what exactly do you mean by your reference to a "very unbalanced method of governing"

I honestly haven't a clue as to what you're on about.
WendyLou
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 06:00 pm
@msolga,
@ tenderfoot. You could not be more wrong. Conversely you obviously favour labour. And I can't find a thing they've done that's right. Sadly, protest voting which occurred in the last Fed election, achieves nothing. Absolutely nothing. You have a mishmash government with four egg head independents who hold the power over the whole of Australia. Ridiculous in the extreme. One vote, one value, that will sort out what people want big time. No preferential voting system. And I am bipartisan. If the liberals don't cut the mustard in a one vote one value system they would need to lift their game. Having said that, I think the best potential prime minister for Australia slipped away more than three years ago. Great treasurer, very funny, but didn't allow himself to grab the brass ring and run with it....Peter Costello. The labour party would NOT have been able to do anything had they not inherited a bag of cash. Sadly to get the "bag of cash" the liberal party has to be tight with the purse strings. That becomes very unpopular. No matter how you want to slice the political biscuit you can't avoid that reality. Simple as that....goes in cycles. The labour party traditionally spends, comes up with some good ideas, but blows them by not costing them out. The other downside of the labour party is "who is governing the country within that party? Jooooolia? I don't think so. I like transparency, not b.s. and lies and spin doctoring. The liberal party comes in on the white charger, closes down the bankcard, saves and becomes unpopular whilst they try to fix the financial mess they inherit. It appears this cycle will go on incessantly. Pay politicians much much more and maybe we will get people with half a brain running this land.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 06:08 pm
@WendyLou,
Quote:
And I can't find a thing they've done that's right.

Not one, single, solitary thing, WendyLou?
You are such hard, hard person to please! Wink

Curious: Which was the last Oz government which met your approval & why? What did you like about its policies?
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 07:38 pm
So hinge .... (I know you watched)
Which are the interesting bit of this morning's Insiders?
I await your recommendations. Smile

http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 07:44 pm
@msolga,
Just watched the segment on the mining tax.
Grrrr ...
Bloody mining companies!
Getting away with highway robbery.


(I think that's enough Insiders for now. Wink )
WendyLou
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 10:48 pm
@msolga,
I am speaking current labour government, not necessarily past ones although they've made some doozies.
Paul Keating's float of the Australian $ was a good move.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 02:49 am
@WendyLou,
But I'd be interested how you view more recent governments (preceding Labor) : What's your assessment the successive Liberal (Howard) governments, WendyLou?

0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 08:24 pm
Petty on the Liberals' splits & divisions over asylum seekers & Muslims .. or anything that'll get them a leg-up in the opinion polls ...:

http://images.theage.com.au/2011/02/21/2194807/petty1-620x0.jpg
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2011 08:29 pm
@msolga,
Quote:
Just watched the segment on the mining tax.
Grrrr ...
Bloody mining companies!
Getting away with highway robbery.


http://images.theage.com.au/2011/02/21/2195141/519905156za.jpg
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Feb, 2011 02:05 am
Hmmm...

"A betrayal of the Australian people"?

What is Abbott offering as an alternative proposal then?

Or is that too much to ask? Neutral

Do nothing & save people's money? Rolling Eyes


Quote:
Carbon tax will inspire people's revolt: Abbott
Updated 1 hour 48 minutes ago
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201005/r573394_3555531.jpg
Tony Abbott says the policy will slug Australians with huge costs. (AAP: Alan Porritt)

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says Julia Gillard's announcement of a carbon price is a "betrayal of the Australian people" and predicts a "people's revolt" in response.

Ms Gillard says the Government's scheme will be rolled out from July 2012, with the price on carbon to be fixed for a period of three to five years before moving to a cap-and-trade system.

The issue dominated a combative Question Time, which saw the Opposition attempt to censure the Prime Minister and Coalition MP Bronwyn Bishop was expelled from the chamber.

Mr Abbott said Ms Gillard's decision to put a price on carbon was a historic betrayal of the Australian people.

"Nothing is more fake than making a promise to the Australian people before an election and breaking it after the election," he said.

"There has been no greater betrayal in recent history."

He says the policy will slug Australians with huge costs.

"We will fight this every second of every minute of every hour of every day of every week of every month," he said.

"I don't believe it's going to happen because I think there will be a people's revolt. They will see this as an assault on their standard of living, which is exactly what it is.

"Every time you turn on the lights, you will pay under Labor's carbon tax. Every time you go to the petrol pump, you will pay under Labor's carbon tax."

But Ms Gillard says the election has given her the mandate to introduce a carbon price.

"The Australian people have voted for change. They voted for a carbon price, and this Parliament gives us the opportunity," she told Parliament.

"Increasingly Australians understand that the Liberal Party, under the Leader of the Opposition, is a party of the past with no real policies or plans for the nation's future.

"You get judged ultimately in this Parliament by what you decide to do and what you deliver, and on this side of the Parliament we are determined that from July 1 (2012) we will price carbon."

While admitting her policy would result in an increase in the cost of living, Ms Gillard says households will be fairly compensated under the scheme.

"Every dollar raised from pricing carbon will go to assist Australian households, assist Australian families with managing the change, assist Australian businesses with managing the change, and to programs for tackling climate change," she said.

'Start of process'

The Prime Minister announced details of the scheme at a joint press conference with Greens leader Bob Brown and Senator Christine Milne, as well as independent MPs Rob Oakeshott and Tony Windsor.

The carbon price will increase annually and funds generated will be used to compensate households and increase energy efficiency in the economy.

Agricultural emissions will initially be excluded from the scheme but farmers will be compensated for any efforts they make to cut emissions.

The Government is expected to announce more details of the plan, including the initial price, at a later date.

Senator Milne called the framework agreement a victory for minority government.

"It's happening because we have shared power in Australia. Majority government would not have delivered this outcome," she said.

But Mr Windsor warned his presence at the announcement did not mean he would support any legislation.

"This is very much the start of the process in my view. There's a lot of discussion to take place on this issue. What we've established today is a framework," he said.

"That doesn't mean the game is over... don't construe, through my presence here, that I'll be supporting any scheme."

And Climate Change Minister Greg Combet warned the major stumbling blocks of compensation and pricing remain before the committee.

The main points are:

* Fixed carbon price to be implemented on July 1, 2012
* Price to be announced at a later date, but will increase annually
* Fixed price to remain for three to five years before switching to cap-and-trade system
* Level of compensation for business and consumers still to be determined
* Agriculture to be excluded from carbon price


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/02/24/3147898.htm
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 05:01 pm
@msolga,
So who's going to start on Julia vs Jones thing? Oh that's right -me!
Here's the actual audio
http://www.2gb.com/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=8186&sms_ss=twitter&at_xt=4d66da27b250bb14,0

I'm a bit over the print devoted to it (particularly) in Sydney papers, really it only highlights a couple of issues:
-Alan Jones is a self-importantly dementia'd hypocritic mouthpiece for the liberals
-Real Julia has balls (yay!)
-Hung parliaments rock!

I have no doubt that Julia framed the 'no carbon tax' with an eye to the poll reaction. But that doesn't make the 'back flip' wrong.

If Jones had ever gone Howard for the 'never, ever' GST I could let it pass, but he never did.

THe question is how do we frame the carbon pricing in terms tax-leary voters can understand?

Yes your electricity and petrol bills will go up:
IF YOU HAVE THE SAME CONSUMPTION PATTERNS
IF POWER USING TECHNOLOGIES DON'T GET MORE EFFICIENT
IF ELECTRICITY GENERATING COMPANIES DON'T INCREASE THE MIX OF SUSTAINABLE ENERGIES IN THEIR OUTPUT

And we have the benefit of transitioning to an economy not dependent on oil in an orderly manner BEFORE IT BECOMES MOOT - ie we run out of oil and we're the grasshopper in the middle of winter.


0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 07:21 pm
http://images.theage.com.au/2011/02/28/2207869/art_010311-moir-600x400.jpg
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 07:26 pm
@msolga,
http://images.theage.com.au/2011/02/25/2204142/gal_wilcox-26-2-600x400.jpg
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 07:28 pm
@msolga,
http://images.theage.com.au/2011/02/28/2206597/Petty-web-600x400.jpg
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 08:29 am
@msolga,
I love the initial reference.. "about that far apart I reckon". Says it all without saying it.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 02:19 am
@Eorl,


\Can't get much worse, can it?

Can it?

Rolling Eyes :


Quote:
Miss! Miss! She called me Gaddafi! Miss!
By Annabel Crabb
Updated 10 hours 58 minutes ago

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201103/r727781_5839729.jpg
It might be time for that Bex and lie-down. (ThinkStock: Goodshoot)

Wow. This new paradigm is sure making everybody kind of sensitive.

For weeks now, the reported injuries have been mounting.

Bob Katter isn't talking to Tony Windsor, because Tony Windsor said on Insiders that he carries toilet paper in his briefcase.

Rob Oakeshott won't meet with Tony Abbott any more, because Joe Hockey visited his electorate and was rude about him in a speech.

Mr Abbott is annoyed, because Tony Windsor said that Mr Abbott told him he was "prepared to do anything" to get into power after the 2010 election, including - Mr Windsor assumes - price carbon.

Nick Xenophon doesn't trust the Government to negotiate fairly on the flood levy, he told ABC's AM program, because he cannot forget what they did to him on the food labelling inquiry - a presumably horrible ordeal upon which the balance-of-power Senator did not choose to enlarge.

Mr Windsor himself hit the airwaves yesterday warning that radio shock-jocks inciting hatred against him and fellow independents had promoted a "death threat" to his mobile phone.

He is concerned that a Giffords-style assassination attempt might ensue in this Americanised rhetorical war.

"We can argue with each other without killing each other," he pleaded.

Craig Emerson lost it on air when shadow minister Peter Dutton teased him for being like Comical Ali, the Iraqi propagandist.

Andrew Wilkie thinks the Coalition is hopelessly infected with racism.

And when Sophie Mirabella said at a doorstop yesterday morning that the Prime Minister was "as deluded as Colonel 'My People Love Me' Gaddafi" - well, that just about tore it.

(For good measure, Peter Dutton sledged by Tweet yesterday that the Government appeared to have Charlie Sheen running tactics, but no-one's complained to the ump about that one yet.)

I don't want to appear hard of heart, but this Parliament is beginning to resemble a World Cup match, and it's definitely one with Italy playing, if you know what I mean.

Tony Windsor received a very nasty phone call from a stranger, in which a string of vicious invective concluded with "I hope you die, you bastard." It's horrible that he had to hear such a message, but that doesn't make it a death threat.

Happily, the distance between "I hope you die," and "I'm in your office kitchenette with a Bowie knife" is still an appreciable one.

And Sophie Mirabella is perfectly entitled to compare Julia Gillard's delusions to Gaddafi's.

She made it pretty clear that imperfect understanding of one's people - rather than indiscriminate slaughter of them - was the key point of comparison.

What has happened in the last week is that the Parliament of Australia - having awoken from last year's dream state in which the Labor Party campaigned on the Liberal Party's border protection policy and the Liberal Party campaigned as Labor on industrial relations - is now having an Actual Argument.

The independents, having plumped for Labor, now have to wear some of the crossness of their constituents. The major parties, now that they've drawn straws, will cop it too.

As Oakeshott himself once said: "it's gonna be ugly. but it will be beautiful in its ugliness."

It might be time for that Bex and lie-down.

Annabel Crabb is ABC Online's chief political writer.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/03/3153646.htm
 

Related Topics

Beached As Bro - Discussion by dadpad
Oz election thread #3 - Rudd's Labour - Discussion by msolga
Australian music - Discussion by Wilso
Oz Election Thread #6 - Abbott's LNP - Discussion by hingehead
AUstralian Philosophers - Discussion by dadpad
Australia voting system - Discussion by fbaezer
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 01/11/2025 at 03:09:12