4
   

Oz Election Thread #4 - Gillard's Labor

 
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 10:54 pm
@hingehead,
How about Ian McFarlane - I can picture him scaring the bejeezus out of babies with that voice in shopping mall kissing queues all over the country.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 12:13 am
@hingehead,
Quote:
I would like that too.

I would LOVE that!

We might even get some sensible debate in parliament & in the community.
It might mean that we actually get more done. There are times when the government & opposition can actually agree & it makes perfect sense that they have agreed.

As I see things, what's sadly lacking in the Liberal Party right now is a total lack of direction & cohesion. As a direct result of this Abbott culture of opposing everything.
Where are the Liberals' policies? What are they exactly? What do the Liberals stand for in 2011?
Who knows?

So I'm not remotely surprised they're fighting amongst themselves. They have no clear direction, the only focus appears to be opposing anything & everything the government proposes. In a nutshell, lack of leadership.

Extremely short sighted, but in this particular case, incredibly insensitive, too.:

Quote:
Hockey breaks ranks on boat-people funeral row
February 15, 2011 - 4:34PM

Senior Liberals are at odds over taxpayers footing the bill for families attending funeral services for victims of the Christmas Island asylum seeker boat disaster...

...Opposition immigration spokesman Scott Morrison said Australians attending funerals around the country were not entitled to taxpayer-funded transport costs....


http://www.smh.com.au/national/hockey-breaks-ranks-on-boatpeople-funeral-row-20110215-1auk2.html#poll
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 01:05 am
@hingehead,
Quote:
I look at their front bench and I don't see much that appeals. Hockey might get in on the GW Bush 'bloke-I'd-like-to -have-a-drink-with' vote. Robb only has a chance in his dreams. Neither Bishop will cut it. Dutton and Pyne are cut from the same irritating cloth, any National is a no go, really the only face that doesn't fill me with revulsion is Scott Morrison. Are there no new faces on that side of politics?

I guess Turnbull could get another shot - why not, Howard got three.


I see things pretty much the same as you, hinge.

Morrison might be good, but at this stage too much of an unknown (to the electorate) quantity.

At this stage I'd put my money on Malcolm.
If he can learn to control his rampant ego. Wink
And if he can learn to behave like the leader of a party, become much better at consultation & working with his party colleagues.
Interesting that he's remained so quiet recently.
Do you suppose he's learnt a thing or two from past experience ... & is quietly biding his time?

msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 06:20 am
@msolga,
No further comment.

As Jonathan Green concluded: just desperately sad.
:

Quote:
Notes from parallel universes
By Jonathan Green
Updated 7 hours 41 minutes ago


http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201102/r718812_5691476.jpg
Mourners grieve at a funeral for one of the Christmas Island boat tragedy victims at Rookwood Cemetery in Sydney. (ABC TV)

The observable facts:

Asylum seekers were flown to Sydney for today's funerals of people killed in the shipwreck.

Family members of 12 of the victims live in Sydney and have requested they be buried there. Some relatives who are still in detention on Christmas Island have been flown to Sydney to attend the services. Among the Christmas Island detainees being flown to Sydney is Madian El Ibrahimy, who has been detained on Christmas Island since arriving in Australia in April last year.

Mr El Ibrahimy's eight-month-old daughter Zahra, wife Zman, and five-year-old son Nzar all died in the shipwreck.


From there it's a matter of perspective.

According to opposition immigration spokesman Scott Morrison:

"The Government had the option of having these services on Christmas Island.

"If relatives of those who were involved wanted to go to Christmas Island, like any other Australian who wanted to attend a funeral service in another part of the country, they would have made their own arrangements to be there.

"This is a Government whose failed border protection policies have increased the cost of asylum seeker management by more than seven-fold in just the last three years.

"They need to understand the value of taxpayers' dollars in this area.

"Are you suggesting, you know, that other Australians don't find financial cost pressures when it comes to getting to these types of events that they dearly want to go to?"



Filmmaker Colman Ridge has been in close contact with the El Ibrahimy family in the lead up to Zahra's burial this morning.

"Substantial efforts have been made to bury Zahra without the consent of her family and with instruction from the Department of Immigration to their subcontractors to make it 'quick, quiet and away from the media'."

Here are the details as I and the family understand them:


1. Zahra El Ibrahimy's body has been delivered to a funeral directors in Lidcombe, Sydney. This is not the family's funeral director.
2. Zahra has been in the Christmas Island morgue for two months with the family requesting permission from DIAC to bury her on a daily basis.
3. Madian El Ibrahimy the father is en route from Christmas Island to Sydney. On arrival he is not permitted to meet his permanent resident brother in Sydney despite meetings previously being approved in Christmas Island.
4. Madian will be held in secret location to be ushered by security to funeral, forbidden to have contact with permanent resident family at funeral and returned to Christmas Island detention centre immediately upon completion of ceremony.
5. Madian is on suicide watch in detention after losing his wife, son and daughter in the wreck.
6. Madian is not permitted to speak at funeral, not even to family. This cannot be a national security measure as Madian has been permitted to talk on mobile from Christmas Island but is ordered mute at funeral.
7. The casket is to be sealed, the family cannot view the body, the father cannot interact with the body or the family.
8. A security planned revealed shows a combination of NSW and Federal Police, plus Circo Security from detention centre may out number the family and grieving but will be a minimum of one to one in plain clothes.
9. DIAC is not communicating with the permanent resident brother of Madian, Oday who has lived in Sydney since 2003. This is different to the treatment of other families and he feels is due to him speaking up about the case.
10. DIAC has instructed a "quick and quiet" funeral away from media this morning.



And this is how a Department of Immigration spokesman saw it:

"The families of the victims are being treated in a compassionate and sensitive manner and appropriate funeral and mourning arrangements have been made.

"The department has consulted extensively with family members, funeral directors and religious representatives at every step during the processes. The funerals are a private event organised for the relatives of the deceased and it would be totally inappropriate, given the tragic circumstances, for the funerals to become a media spectacle and add to the trauma already being suffered.

"The claim that family members in Sydney will not be allowed to meet with those coming to Sydney for the funerals is not accurate, they will have an opportunity to meet and speak with family members after the services.

"Detainees brought to Sydney will be escorted by the appropriate level of security as they are still in detention; the Australian community expects an appropriate level of supervision."



To return briefly to the observable facts:

ABC news:
"The funerals of three asylum seekers, including two babies, who died in the Christmas Island boat tragedy have taken place in Sydney.

"A total of eight people will be buried today, with three Muslim services this morning and five Christian services this afternoon.

"An eight-year-old Iranian boy watched as his father Fahan was buried at Rookwood cemetery in Sydney's west this morning.

"The boy is an unaccompanied minor from Christmas Island who lost both his parents in the boat tragedy. An aunt who lives in Sydney watched, wailing, by the graveside.

"Two babies - eight-month-old girl Zahra and three-month-old boy Sam - were also laid to rest."

Which, beyond the to and fro of the ugliest of politics, just sounds desperately sad.


Jonathan Green is the editor of The Drum.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/02/15/3139496.htm
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 05:46 pm
@msolga,
More opposing everything ...

Now the Liberals are going to demand the cost of these funerals. (And it's looking like Labor will oblige.)

How much expense is too much, in a situation like this? I'm not surprised there's division in the Liberal ranks.

If government didn't have to transport the asylum seekers from Christmas Island to Sydney, to attended their family funerals , the cost would have been a damn sight cheaper. As if cost is such an important matter in situation like this ...

(Hinge, I just crossed Morrison off my list as a potential future Liberal leader. Looks like he's following the Abbott line hook, line & sinker on this one. He could be just more of the same. ):


Quote:
Opposition demands to see asylum funeral bill
February 16, 2011 - 9:31AM

The federal opposition will try to force the government to release costs of the funerals held for asylum seekers killed in the Christmas Island boat tragedy. ...

....Opposition Leader Tony Abbott and immigration spokesman Scott Morrison have questioned the cost - a position that has caused divisions within the party.

Coalition MPs plan to pursue the issue during estimate hearings next week.
Eight-year-old Iranian Sinan, brought to Rookwood cemetery to bury his father, is comforted.

"The Senate estimates will find out whether it was a reasonable cost," Nationals senator Barnaby Joyce told ABC Radio today.

The price of compassion is "not limitless", he said.

"You can't do it with a completely open cheque book."...<cont>


http://www.smh.com.au/national/opposition-demands-to-see-asylum-funeral-bill-20110216-1avla.html
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 07:08 pm
@msolga,
He is looking as good as former immigration ministers of the right Philip Ruddock, Amanda Vanstone, Kevin Andrews. Yuck.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 10:34 pm
@hingehead,
Yes, looks like another one's hit the dust, hinge. I thought he was a bit more intelligent & perceptive than that. Oh well ...
Sigh.

Later today Abbott & Morrison back-tracked on their criticisms of the funding arrangements for the funerals ... the likely motivation being more about "healing the rift" in Liberal ranks (which appeared to be widening) than any newly discovered sense of compassion towards the asylum seekers, I'd guess.
And possibly their internal polls were telling them something, too?

Read Abbott's last comments in this quote from the Australian. If this issue was not such a serious one, you could have a really good laugh.
:

Quote:
.... After criticism from within his own party and the government, Mr Morrison conceded his comments over the issue were “inappropriate” and “insensitive”.

“Timing in terms of comments I think is very important. The timing of my comments over the last 24 hours was insensitive and was inappropriate,” he told 2GB's Ray Hadley.

“I have to show a little more compassion than I showed yesterday.”

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott also conceded the federal coalition “went too far” in its criticism of the government.

But he said Mr Morrison's contrition showed “a lot of guts”.

“I think it's very important we have a tough border protection policy. The Coalition will always have a tough border protection policy, but we will never depart from being humane,” he told reporters.

“I want to thank Scott for being man enough to accept that perhaps we did go a little bit too far yesterday.”

Mr Hockey, the opposition treasury spokesman, yesterday backed the government's decision to fly relatives from Christmas Island to Sydney to attend disaster victims' funerals, opening up a Coalition rift over the issue. ...


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/liberal-senator-calls-for-more-compassion-from-coalition-over-asylum-seeker-funerals/story-fn59niix-1226006781814
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 10:41 pm
@msolga,
Should have kept his mouth shut in the first place.

Now all the libvotingracists will be thinking he's a softcock and all the lattesippingcommies know he's not nice.

What ever happened to saying what you actually think rather than crashing and burning in your own, spinning, web of lies?
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 10:42 pm
@msolga,
Also, in regard to Morrison's quoted words:

Quote:
“Timing in terms of comments I think is very important. The timing of my comments over the last 24 hours was insensitive and was inappropriate,” he told 2GB's Ray Hadley.


When would have been a better time to make such insensitive comments? Confused
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 10:48 pm
@hingehead,
Apparently any time except 'yesterday'. Yesterday is very inappropriate.
Quote:
perhaps we did go a little bit too far yesterday



msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 11:01 pm
@hingehead,
Yes, he's certainly exposed himself for what he is, hinge.
A blind Abbott follower, I'd say.
Probably won't help his career much in the future, either, when Abbott goes.

Quote:
What ever happened to saying what you actually think rather than crashing and burning in your own, spinning, web of lies?

Yeah, whatever happened to saying what you actually think & standing by your words?

The one good thing out of all this is that sounds like those who used to be called "the wets" in the Liberal party are standing up & fighting back.
Remember Howard's purges?
He thought he'd all but gotten rid of them & their influence, leaving only Petro Georgiou Judith Troeth & Russell Braodbent & co for quite a while ... who put up such a valiant fight, while so out-numbered, in the Howard government's last years.
So it is very pleasing indeed to discover that there's still some "wetness" in today's Liberal Party. Abbott's total lack of compassion (say nothing of the rest!) appears to have inspired them to speak up & fight back.
Or am I being overly optimistic here?
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 11:05 pm
@hingehead,
Quote:
Apparently any time except 'yesterday'. Yesterday is very inappropriate.

Yes.
Maybe tomorrow would have been better? Wink

Of course this is Morrison having a bob each way.
It wasn't that he made totally inappropriate & insensitive comments at all.
He just said what he said at the wrong time!
Neutral
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 11:11 pm
@msolga,
Yeah, "I wasn't wrong, you just listened to me at the wrong time"
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 11:16 pm
@hingehead,
That would have to be it! Idea


BTW, did you read Jonathon Green's Drum piece I posted last night, hinge?
"Notes from parallel universes".
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/02/15/3139496.htm

That was such a devastating read.
Those poor people. As if coping with their intense grief was not enough.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 12:55 am
@msolga,
I did Olgs, Still wondering which of the three versions most approximates the truth.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 01:19 am
@hingehead,
Well somewhere in between those three versions the truth lies (for the families of the dead), hinge.

I don't know either. (how could either of us know for certain?)

All I know is that it was a desperately sad & tragic situation ,which I'm sure was made even more painful for those concerned, as a result of this attempt at political point scoring on the part Abbott & Morrison.

I applaud Jonathan Green for his attempt to humanize the events & try get us to appreciate that it was so much more than what was being presented to us in the media over the past couple of days.

(And as the editor of Drum I 'd think he would have taken quite some care to get his facts straight?)
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 04:21 am
Quote:
Hockey denies Coalition rift over funerals
Updated 2 hours 51 minutes ago

Senior Liberal Joe Hockey denies there are divisions within the Coalition over Christmas Island shipwreck survivors being flown to Sydney for funerals of family members. ...


Of course he'd say that.
That's what politicians always say when there are divisions. Wink

But this is the part of this ABC report which surprised me.
One Nation.
I haven't thought about One Nation for ages.
And here we are in 2011 & it's being taken seriously again, as a possible influence on the Liberal Party ... considered credible enough for Joe Hockey to have to issue this denial about One Nation influence, apparently ....


Quote:
One Nation

Mr Hockey also refuted claims that One Nation was driving Coalition policy and had lobbied MPs on issues like foreign aid to Indonesia.

Mr Hockey said he personally had "zero" engagement with the anti-immigration party.

"If I've received emails, I don't read them," he said. "I didn't even think One Nation was registered.

"The underlying assumption is that somehow we are voices for other masters.

"I am my own man. I am of the Liberal Party. I do not report to anyone other than the Australian people. I am not accountable to anyone other than my electorate and the Australian people.

"If anyone thinks that myself or Tony Abbott or Scott Morrison or anyone else is beholden to a single-interest party, such as One Nation, they are dead wrong."

This morning on ABC Radio, One Nation's NSW president Richard Putral was seeking to distance himself from Mr Morrison's initial comments.

"That is not my viewpoint, and as the president of the One Nation Party in New South Wales, it is definitely not my stance," he said.

- ABC/AAP


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/02/16/3140778.htm
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 08:31 pm
@msolga,
Yikes, there's more! Surprised

I haven't seen the Fairfax report mentioned in the article. Will go look now ..:


Quote:
Calls for Morrison's head in 'anti-Muslim' row

Updated 1 hour 7 minutes ago

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott is standing by his immigration spokesman Scott Morrison amid calls for his sacking over his alleged proposal for the Coalition to pursue an anti-Muslim agenda.

A Fairfax report says Mr Morrison urged shadow cabinet to capitalise on electorate fears of "Muslim immigration", "Muslims in Australia" and Muslim migrants' "inability to integrate".


The report says Mr Morrison's suggestion was slapped down by senior Liberals including Julie Bishop and Philip Ruddock, but the Opposition has been under pressure over reports of a continuing split within the party over the issue. ....


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/02/17/3141338.htm
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 08:36 pm
@msolga,
Can't find it.
Don't know if I want to go there, either.
Sigh.
Please tell me, someone, that we are not venturing back into One Nation territory again.
Sad
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 08:39 pm
@msolga,
Bejeezus I hope not.

Isn't funny how twice in a short media cycle the oppositions knee-jerk 'if the govt did it, it must be wrong' has bitten them on the ass. Floods and Funerals. What's the third F?
 

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