Oz Election Thread #4 - Gillard's Labor

Another writer on here suggested they come in the "Front Door" and got his/her backside chewed by msolga and others. Although I do think the writer didn't mean it the way it sounded, but he/she was given no mercy here.
Having read what you posted, I do see what you are getting at. (now I'll get my backside chewed ) I wouldn't be surprised many come for the reason you state, as Australia must look like a paradise , but I doubt they think the detention centres are. I wonder what others think.

I can see too what it's saying, but it's still shite. The fact is that by seeking asylum (not illegally immigrating) boat people are actually policed a hell of lot more than the tens of thousand actual illegal immigrants who live here, but could afford to buy plane tickets. When a boat person seeks asylum they are locked up, their claims analysed, and if it's determined that the claim has no merit they are deported (as soon as the govt decides it's safe for them to go back) - there is no such routine for the jet-setting immigrant, if they can get through immigration with a visitor visa and prove they have some cash, they stay for as long as they can get away with it wherever they want doing what they want.

Telling an Afghani asylum seeker to seek refuge in Pakistan or Iran shows massive ignorance about those countries' ethnic makeups, political tensions and social strife. Maybe they could go to India and live in the Punjab - no tension there, or Burma, where they would be welcomed by a junta that's only just released the elected leader of the country from 20 years of house arrest.

The fact is neighbouring countries already bear the brunt of refugees - and all countries accept refugees from the camps in neighbouring countries, Australia is probably the laxest at accepting them - the even further away countries of North America and the Europe are far more generous. We are a pack of whingers - the numbers are tiny and we piss our pants in fear.

TF should read up a bit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_refugees and get some perspective.

Hingehead.... I looked at the video..

Was filmed by A/ Australia ( and what one would expect from that organization ) it showing a person unknown, doing a great job at pulling the heart strings, you believe it, but in my case I don't just believe what I see because it pulls heart strings, we had enough of that from what we read on the Wiki leaks, but have agreed with you on your remarks there. I stand by what I said until such time I am convinced otherwise. I am only expressing what I think, not what I know.
By the way my parents left England just after the last world war with my sister and I. We travelled through Europe and saw the devastation there. Caught the SS Continental at Genoa in Italy and travelled to Australia as migrants, with my parents paying our own way, as there was too long a waiting list to get here by the 10 pound assisted passage. I was 14 at the time so I do understand a little of what it all means.

Then why does it appear you have no empathy?

I read your post and can see your point of view too.

Hingehead... Empathy-- quote.
William Ickes: A complex form of psychological inference in which observation, memory, knowledge, and reasoning are combined to yield insights into the thoughts and feelings of others. Unquote,

I thought I had the above , the Memory, knowledge, and reasoning, but my insight, is not the same as yours perhaps .
But as I said it's "what I thought, not what I know " But when I read that it requires years of the illeagals being in confinement whilst our goverment "tries' to find out who they really are and if what they are telling is the truth, but if they find illegals working here they just deport them ,it tells me there is something wrong with the way we do things.

Sorry TF, I fear I was reading more negativity into your post than you intended. My great worry is you were expressing what most Australians feel and think, without taking the time to 'know'. Elections have been decided on the blinkered willful ignorance of the Australian electorate - so I get het up when I see those points of view expressed - I should probably follow my own advice and realise that no-one ever changed their mind because someone shouted at them.

My mother was a WWII refugee. And when you tell me of your journey with parents leaving your homeland - when even the way it was then it would seem like a paradise to these refugees, and you use 'They use the " escape from something or the other " ' as if they aren't escaping from something dire in their own world view, let alone ours.

I hate generalisations and I hate black and white interpretations of almost anything. The more you know the less you know.

Hingehead... thanks for replying in a compassionate way.
Assuming I was one of the the blinkered willful ignorant's of the Australian electorate and had the power to do it my ignorant way, I would pick up the illegals at sea and give them tourist visa's then fly them into a Australian airport... Then they would be treated for what they were. I'm sure that would be the way a ignoramus would do it, I would assume, that I would assume it to be a compassionate way of dealing with Illeagals.

Ok, so it seems the government has got it all wrong. So what is the answer ?
Forget we have borders and allow anyone in a boat to come in unchallenged ?
Take them into society and give them welfare cheques and support with no enquiries into their past or validity of their claims ?
I would be interested to see how writers on here would handle it if they were Prime Minister. Write on people.

The silence is deafening !

My lack of interest is deafening. This isn't a big issue, we just think it is. We are clueless. In my own experience Spain has a massively larger issue than we do with unregulated people movement but deal with it with enormously more compassion.

We are signatories to international refugee conventions that guide our obligations. What I can't abide is that 100s of CHILDREN are locked up in camps. And that people choose which way they'll vote based on a 'race to the bottom' by the two major parties to see who can do the best job of spinning "the hordes are coming and they are a major threat and we'll protect you from them"

I'd rather we got excited about why 2 year olds get gonorrhea in remote indigenous communites, or addressed the massive inequities in our education system, or stopped relying on our prison system to deal with our mentally ill.

Here here, I can go along with that

I agree as well, but lets put the money used for illeagals into, as hingehead put it -

Quote. 2 year olds get gonorrhea in remote indigenous communites, or the massive inequities in our education system, stop relying on our prison system to deal with our mentally ill. Unquote.

So TF so you're saying don't put any money into illegals? What does that mean? Stop running border patrols? Don't build, maintain and staff remote camps for them? And that's a solution that works for you? That wasn't the impression you were giving earlier. But I agree. Help them get jobs and pay tax. There are remote communities screaming out for a willing labour force - there are already success stories of refugees revitalising dying remote communities.

So let's talk Tony's 'gaff' and Julia's 'wood'.

I honestly thought that Tony had nothing to be ashamed of re the video and the **** happens comment, but what an abject fail the attempted stare down of the Channel 7 dude was - that was just an ugly bit of footage, I really wanted to reboot him, I could see his mind going 'how do I explain this, how do I not look stupid, for god's sake where are my spin doctors I need a line!' Painful television.

I also hated that Julia teared up in parly, if only because it came so soon after the wooden and unemotional commentary in the media.

I was so hoping 2011 would be about issues.

Here's the video - Abbott's reaction is spooky - I thought he was going to lapse into Rugby mode and thump the reporter.

So was I hinge.

I think we're out of luck.
Talk about storms in a tea-cup!

For the record. I found Julia's tears excruciating.
(Why do I get the feeling that so much of what she says & does these days has been carefully scripted? Awful to watch . She's much more intelligent that this, surely?)

As for Tony.
What to make of that, who knows?
Gobsmacked again by an unexpected question?
Dunno.
But I wish both of them & the damned media (!) would lift their game!
Surely there are far more important things to report on?

I haven't even been able to drag myself to find out if Tony has come out of the bunker - must have irked to have Joe Hockey speak on his behalf yesterday.

I saw something on one of the ABCs the other day about journalism - an American was speaking and lamenting the fact that news outlets had massively cut the number of journalists on payrolls, so that there were fewer stories than ten years ago and, contrary to the idea that online sources would broaden the depth of information a survey of all sources of news (from Twitter to TV) showed even in those fora the number of stories was dropping, even though there were many more bits of information about the stories that did reach public conscious.

Yes, I have heard Laurie Oaks & others make that very same claim, hinge.
Cut-backs, changed priorities from those who control the media purse strings.

Apparently much of what is called "political reporting" these days is from relatively junior journalist.
We are clearly getting some very light weight reporting of Oz politics now, have been for a while ..
Very sad to see.

I mean, who cares whether Julia came off badly, when compared to Anna Bligh in the compassion & credibility contest? (Even Michelle G wrote about that! )

Perhaps we'll have to rely on Crikey & find some good Oz political blogs if we want a bit more substance?

Or maybe he was grateful?
Better Joe Hockey than no one in a speechless moment, hey?