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Oz Election Thread #4 - Gillard's Labor

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2010 06:26 pm
@msolga,
(I'll bet they don't!)

Those (now very well known) powerbroking "faceless men", pulling the strings behind the scenes.:


http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2010/08/23/1225909/060375-faceless-men-650-x-433.jpg
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2010 06:52 pm
Quote:
Australia's hung Parliament explained
Updated Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:31pm AEST

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201008/r624999_4220731.jpg

This is the first hung Parliament at a Commonwealth level in Australia since 1940.
As Australia stares down the barrel of a hung Parliament, here's a look at what it all means.

What is a hung Parliament?

A hung Parliament results when no party has more than half the MPs in the House of Representatives, which means no party can pass laws without gaining support from other parties or independent members of the House.

That support could come in the form of a formal coalition, or the governing party may have to negotiate with the other parties to get laws passed.

How did we get here?

There are 150 members of the House of Representatives, so to have an outright majority one of the parties needs to hold 76 seats. Neither Labor nor the Coalition looks likely to reach that point.

Instead, they'll have to negotiate with the three sitting independents who have been re-elected - Tony Windsor, Bob Katter and Rob Oakeshott - as well as the Greens' Adam Bandt, who has won the seat of Melbourne.

A fourth independent, Andrew Wilkie, may come into the mix, as he is locked in a tight battle with Labor for the seat of Denison in Tasmania.

It's not clear just yet exactly how many seats Labor and the Coalition will hold (because it's not certain who has won a few very close races) but they both look set to fall three or four seats short of a majority.

How long will it take before the seats are finalised?


ABC election analyst Antony Green says it could take up until Tuesday August 31 before the closest seats, in particular Hasluck, are decided. This is due to the timeframes required for counting postal and absentee votes.

What happens now?

Essentially, a whole lot of horse-trading.

Both Labor and the Coalition will attempt to convince the independents and Mr Bandt to provide them with the support needed to get the required 76 votes on the floor of Parliament.

This could involve winning the support of individuals separately, or as a bloc. Mr Windsor, Mr Katter and Mr Oakeshott plan to meet before deciding what to do next.

Who is running the country while this happens?


Julia Gillard remains the caretaker prime minister and her Government remains in the caretaker role it has played since the election was called.

This will remain the case until one side of politics can convince Governor-General Quentin Bryce it has the numbers to form a government.

What is the Governor-General's role?

Constitutional experts say there's nothing explicit about hung Parliaments in Australia's Constitution. Instead, these situations are resolved via a set of unwritten rules originating in the United Kingdom. Despite being unwritten, these conventions are considered clear and well-established.

Under these conventions, the governor-general acts on the advice of the caretaker prime minister.

If Ms Gillard is able to win enough support from the independents and Mr Bandt, she would advise Ms Bryce that she intended to form a government. Ms Bryce would then swear in Ms Gillard and her ministers, and Labor would test its support on the floor of Parliament via a no-confidence motion brought by the Opposition.

The fresh government would need the support of 76 members to survive the vote.

If, on the other hand, it becomes clear that the Coalition has won enough support to form a government, the usual course of events would be for Ms Gillard to resign and advise Ms Bryce to send for Liberal leader Tony Abbott.

Is this situation unprecedented?


This is the first hung Parliament at a Commonwealth level in Australia since 1940.

On that occasion, Robert Menzies was able to form and lead a coalition government, but subsequently lost support and was succeeded by Arthur Fadden in mid-1941. Later that year, two independents switched their support to Labor and John Curtin became prime minister.

However, Australia has had quite a bit of experience with hung parliaments and minority governments at the state level:

* Most recently, the 2010 Tasmanian election resulted in a hung Parliament, with Labor forming a minority government with two Greens as members of Cabinet;
* The 2008 Western Australian election also resulted in a minority government; on that occasion, the Liberal Party under Colin Barnett formed government with the support of the National Party and three independents;
* South Australian Premier Mike Rann led a minority government after the 2002 election in that state, having recruited an independent MP and a National MP into his Cabinet room;
* In the 1990s, Nick Greiner led a minority government in New South Wales, notably relying on the support of Tony Windsor, one of the federal independents now in a position to help decide the fate of national politics;
* Victoria and Queensland have also had minority governments in recent decades.

Why should a handful of independents get to decide who forms our government?


Under Australia's system of democracy, governments are formed based on the make-up of Parliament. Simply put, the likely make-up of our next Parliament means a government can only be formed with the support of the independents and one Green MP.

What do they base their decisions on?

Each member of Parliament can choose to support either side of politics for whatever reasons they want to.

Though there may be pressure to take into account which party wins the most seats or has the highest primary or two-party preferred vote, they're under no obligation to do so.

Greens MP Adam Bandt indicated before the election that he wouldn't support a Coalition government, so his intentions are clearer than most.

The three sitting independents - Mr Windsor, Mr Katter and Mr Oakeshott - have indicated they plan to meet behind closed doors before making any decisions.

Associate Professor Anne Twomey from the University of Sydney Law School says independent MPs and small parties who find themselves in a position of power via a hung Parliament are "usually very interested in making government more accountable to the people and so those are the sorts of conditions they tend to put on (their support)".

In the past, sweeteners for independents' local constituencies have also come into play. Broadband and regional telecommunications are likely to be talking points between the independents and the major parties.

Is there a chance we'll have another election?

Ms Twomey says there's a strong convention against having a new election immediately after the old one.

"The convention is the Parliament should be given a reasonable time to run and to sort out a government," she says.

However, if neither Labor nor the Coalition is able to marshall a parliamentary majority and survive a vote of no confidence, Ms Bryce may be left with no other option.

How long can this drag on?


Technically, the deadline for ending the impasse is whenever Parliament sits.

The Constitution says Parliament must sit within 30 days of the return of the election writs. The last possible date for the return of the writs is October 27, meaning Parliament would have to sit in November.

In reality, there will be considerable pressure to end the deadlock much sooner than that. However, any solution seems unlikely before final counting wraps up during the week starting August 29.

Where does the Senate come into this?

The make-up of the House of Representatives determines who is able to form government. The Greens will hold the balance of power in the new Senate. So whoever ends up forming a minority government faces the prospect of negotiating with their partners in the Lower House and the Greens in the Upper House to get laws passed.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/23/2990782.htm
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2010 06:56 pm
Nice summary.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2010 07:04 pm
@msolga,
Detailed ABC article outlining the political backgrounds & also the key issues for the independents.:

Quote:
Who are the key players?
Updated Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:41pm AEST
Australia's political future hangs in the hands of a disparate gang of four independents and one Greens MP.

The Coalition and Labor are both hoping to form a minority government with the help of the independents.

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201008/r624344_4213090.jpg
The four MPs are Tasmanian newcomer Andrew Wilkie and rural seat incumbents Rob Oakeshott, Bob Katter and Tony Windsor.

Also in the mix is Nationals MP Tony Crook, who wants to be part of the cross-bench negotiations.

The major parties will now have to start horse-trading; this is what they have to work with: ....<cont>


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/22/2990081.htm
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2010 10:18 pm
@msolga,
I heard last night that Tony Crook wanted the mining tax rescinded - that won't happen so forget him working with the ALP.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2010 05:17 pm
All this nice talk about reforming the way we do government and then I see this story in the Cairns Post

Sydney Morning Herald wrote:
News Ltd has reported that Mr Katter threatened to kill Liberal National Party MP Peter Lindsay during a heated argument at Townsville Airport in May.

The report said Mr Lindsay wrote to the Australian Federal Police saying: "He said he would have me killed and I better believe it because he could make it happen."

Mr Katter, who holds the north Queensland seat of Kennedy, also reportedly said: "You Liberals are slimy dogs and you are the lowest of the low."


Hmmm. So Katter will back the ALP? Should they climb into bed with a nutter? Or is this a News Limited wind up to build support for libs and discredit an ALP minority govt that includes Katter? Why wasn't it reported in May? I've mentioned previously that I think Tony (and hence his brain trust) think ALP will form govt, which would explain his demeanour (rictus mouth and election sloganeering - when the election has ended).
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2010 06:05 pm
@hingehead,
Good morning, hinge.

No argument from me regarding Katter. You know that.
This is his big moment in the limelight & he's certainly making the most of it! Revolting spectacle.

Depressing, isn't it? Wilson Tuckey finally loses his seat (hooray!) & Katter regains his. I can't imagine how anyone in their right mind voting for either of them. <sigh>

All this talk about those 3 independents meeting in Canberra to work out their party line (I presume). (How much would Katter & Oakshott have in common, anyway?) Not exactly very independent of them, hey? Wink Neutral

It looks like Andrew Wilkie has been successful in Dennison (Tasmania). Good luck to him. I believe he will be a genuine independent. (I'd love to be a fly on the wall when Abbott attempts to "woo" him! Ha.)

What do you make of Rob Oakeshott's pronouncements about a "unity cabinet" yesterday? He certainly received loads of publicity!:

Quote:
Oakeshott proposes unity cabinet
Updated Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:35am AEST
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201008/r625445_4226325.jpg
'We need a buffer': Independent MP Rob Oakeshott (AAP: Alan Porritt)

Independent MP Rob Oakeshott says Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott should consider a ruling coalition which would see former political enemies sitting side by side around the cabinet table.

Mr Oakeshott and his fellow independents Tony Windsor and Bob Katter have been touted as the kingmakers if either of the two parties tries to put together a minority government. ...<cont>


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/24/2991520.htm
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2010 06:13 pm
@msolga,
It's funny that Oakeshott's proposal is exactly how our parliamentary system is supposed to work, and that there is absolutely no way either big party is going to do that.

Can you imagine ministers being picked on competence rather than party membership and favour repayments? Crazy talk. I talk to the treeees....

I too have a lot of time for Wilkie. As one of the hundreds of thousands who marched against the Iraq war (and not the Afghanistan war) I understand his frustration at the massive deception John Howard and co inflicted on the people they represented, and were never called to account for.

If I ever meet Howard I will be asking him how he sleeps at night, and that I hold him personally responsible with Blair and Bush for every life taken in that illegal conflict.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2010 06:13 pm
Meanwhile, back to counting those votes:

Labor & the Liberal party both hold 71 seats each, with 3 seats still undecided in the house of representatives (lower house). Those 3 seats look like going to the Coalition. Neither party will gain the necessary 76 seats required for an outright majority, as predicted.:

http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2010/guide/seatsindoubt.htm
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2010 06:16 pm
@msolga,
Hey, I wonder which way postal votes will swing. Traditionally they go to Libs, I think (because the wealthy are more likely to travel?). Or perhaps they go to the incumbents (so nothing has changed when you get back)?

But what if it goes to the incumbent because it's great to travel with the exchange rate the way it is now!
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2010 06:20 pm
@hingehead,
Smile

I'll go along with what ever Antony predicts, hinge!
That man is brilliant! (I'm thinking of starting a fan club for him, such is my admiration. Wink )

Any thoughts on Oakshott's pronouncements yesterday? I'd be interested in your opinion.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2010 07:40 pm
@msolga,
Pretty much how I see the attitudes of Bob Katter, Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott so far, too.
If you present yourself as an independent (if you're voted in as one) , well you act independently, too ..:


Quote:
Wilkie says independents are just another political party
August 25, 2010 - 9:51AM/the AGE

Former whistleblower Andrew Wilkie says the three key independents, who are being wooed to help form a minority government, are just acting like another political party - with three separate factions.

Mr Wilkie, who is tipped to take the crucial Tasmanian seat of Denison, said he was "uncomfortable" with the way they were behaving - and had "quite deliberately" put off talking to them.
http://images.theage.com.au/2010/08/24/1853776/andrew-wilkie-420x0.jpg
Andrew Wilkie...says he's "uncomfortable" about the way three key independents are acting. Photo: Alastair Bett

Wilkie counsels caution

''I haven't spoken to them yet, and I certainly won't be forming any so-called bloc with them.''

The three independents - Bob Katter, Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott - have started talks with the major parties and will appear at a public forum at the National Press Club later today.

Mr Wilkie said he had spoken to the Prime Minister Julia Gillard and Opposition Leader Tony Abbott, but remained undecided about which party he would support.

''I don't favour Labor or Liberal,'' he said, adding that over the past few months the Labor government had not been ''stable, competent or ethical''.

''And I'm yet to be persuaded that the Liberal party could do any better.''

Mr Wilkie said whichever party he sided with, support would be limited to a pledge not to block supply or support unwarranted no confidence motions.

''To just become a rubber stamp means you have effectively joined that party,'' he said.


Speaking before news was confirmed that another Australian had died in Afghanistan, Mr Wilkie accused both parties of lying about our ongoing role in the war.

He said he supported a debate on our future involvement in the war, similar to a call made by the Greens. ..<cont>


http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/wilkie-says-independents-are-just-another-political-party-20100825-13qxn.html?autostart=1
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2010 07:56 pm
Katter 'threat' is nonsense says Entsch

Quote:
“It's just nonsense,” Federal Member elect for Leichhardt Warren Entsch said today, after claims that independent-turned power broker, Bob Katter threatened a Federal MP.

“This would not have been a legitimate threat. The only thing Bob Katter is guilty of is being passionate, loud and assertive," Warren Entsch said, something that he himself has a well-known reputation for.

"Having known the man for many many years, I can attest to Bob’s solid character. A lesser person may well call him aggressive and bullying, however those who stoop to such name calling clearly have no knowledge of his passion nor his commitment to his electorate and his constituents," Entsch says.

“Bob and I will never agree on all things, particularly our respective positions on gun control, but one thing I can attest to without hesitation is his passion for his electorate and his unflinching service to his constituents and his love of our indigenous peoples."

Warren Entsch says Katter, often like himself, calls "a spade a spade."

"He speaks from his heart and is very upfront with his thoughts and quite frankly gives little consideration to who he may offend in arguing his position. At the very centre of it all is a good hearted human being,” Warren Entsch said.

“I have been accused of exactly the same level of passion in my public life, for exactly the same reasons, so I understand where he is coming from. It is also this level of passion that makes him effective," Entsch says. “This quite frankly is one of our strongest areas of commonality."

“Bob does not have a vicious bone in his body. But what he does have is a passion for his electorate of Kennedy running through his veins and it is something for which he should never apologise."


goddamn, welcome to FNQ. Clueless f*wit backs clueless f*wit.

Entsch loses female staff constantly and is a renowned bully - no wonder he supports katter's behaviour - it's his own. I love the line about people calling him 'agressive and bullying' are stooping to name calling. Does Entsch thinksKatter's comment "You Liberals are slimy dogs and you are the lowest of the low." is not stooping to name calling?
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2010 08:06 pm
@msolga,
Quote:
Any thoughts on Oakshott's pronouncements yesterday?


In response to my own question ... Smile

I was surprised that his statement received so much serious attention in the media yesterday. I can't see a "unity" government occurring in the current circumstances at all. In war time or emergency circumstances it's quite possible, of course.
But it's interesting that the person making such apparently principled statements is, the same time, working as a bloc with the other two independents to gain maximum power for themselves. A wee bit of a contradiction here!
So perhaps it was all a bit of self-promotion at a convenient moment & not much else? Along the lines of the "kinder", "gentler" Liberal government that Tony Abbott says he would lead, if he receives the independents support? Wink
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2010 08:36 pm
Quote:

THREE independent MPs key to deciding who governs have warned talks with Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott could fail and lead to an early election
.

Independent Tony Windsor warned both parties a return to the polls was an “third option”. ....

.... The trio said they had requested a comprehensive update on the nation's finances as part of their negotiations with the major parties.

“When we get the information back we could all head in different directions and there is a third direction, if there isn't goodwill displayed and we can't see a future in terms of the longevity of the parliament itself, there could be another poll,” Mr Windsor said. ......


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/independents-poll-warning-to-the-prime-minister-and-tony-abbott/story-fn59niix-1225909848288
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2010 08:40 pm
@msolga,
Who do you think would fear this the most MsOlga?
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2010 08:42 pm
@hingehead,
You mean between the ALP & the Libs, hinge?
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2010 08:44 pm
@msolga,
Yeah. Watching the stream of the indies at the NPC
http://www.abc.net.au/news/abcnews24/
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2010 08:46 pm
@hingehead,
Thank you!
I am, too, now.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2010 09:05 pm
I've suddenly got a sense that this is a point in history that will be pivotal in for the future of Australian politics.
 

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