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Do you believe in ghosts/life after death?

 
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2010 05:56 pm
@IceB0x,
No to either. My immediate cousins do though, especially the ghost part. Heh, just one of our differences, though I love them all.
IceB0x
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2010 06:07 pm
@ossobuco,
Family can't agree on everything. If they did, they certainly aren't living in today's society.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2010 06:07 pm
@IceB0x,
My problem with ghosts, is the conservation of energy problem. Our whole life requires energy, most people take this concept for granted. You have to consume energy to keep functioning or else you die. There is no way around this. Yet when you talk about a ghost, what is the energy that makes up the ghost? You can't just say it fuels itself, because that is contradiction in terms. It can't fuel itself because then it would be nothing more than a self perpetuation form of energy and absolutely NOTHING in the universe has that kind of energy. Despite the fact that a lot of ignorant people try to claim, you can't have such a thing.

Now you could make some kind of assumptions that the spirit is fueled by some other extra dimensional system of energy input. But then you are stacking on another level of functionality when we don't even have the first system accounted for. The only way ghosts make sense to me is that they live in people's imaginations and that is it.
IceB0x
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2010 06:15 pm
@Krumple,
A very valid point. Even if energy was to be converted to another form, 'afterlife,' it doesn't account for how it continues to gain energy. Technically speaking, though, couldn't it gain energy from anything in the tangible world? I'm going against my own opinion here, but thinking outside of the box can't hurt. Many ghost shows use electric pumps, I believe, or equipment to help a spirit manifest. Supposedly, of course. In theory, couldn't this work?

I'm completely for accepting imagination is the cause, too.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2010 06:29 pm
@IceB0x,
IceB0x wrote:

A very valid point. Even if energy was to be converted to another form, 'afterlife,' it doesn't account for how it continues to gain energy. Technically speaking, though, couldn't it gain energy from anything in the tangible world? I'm going against my own opinion here, but thinking outside of the box can't hurt. Many ghost shows use electric pumps, I believe, or equipment to help a spirit manifest. Supposedly, of course. In theory, couldn't this work?

I'm completely for accepting imagination is the cause, too.


So you are suggesting that the ghost absorbs energy as to it's functioning? Well okay I will entertain that idea for a little bit. My question is, does it control the absorption and where are these ghosts when they are not absorbing energy? Wouldn't we see a constant drain, if there were millions of ghosts and they were absorbing energy, wouldn't we have some kind of way to discover a loss or energy drain? Surely there would be some indication that they were absorbing some kind of energy from something. It just doesn't seem to be consistent enough for me. To put it another way, it would be like you living in your house and only eating one tiny crumb of food at a time. So if a person walked in to try and find evidence to see if you have been eating it would be incredibly hard to find. There is so much energy around yet none of it is being eaten.

But this is only one small problem I see with ghosts. What about their who being itself? Are they just reliving the same moment over and over or do they live in some kind of mirrored existence, where they live, have jobs, buy clothes, do everything that we do, except they do it in some kind of spirit realm? If that is the case then what is the reason for revealing itself here? Is it unintentional? Or is it intended?
IceB0x
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2010 06:44 pm
@Krumple,
Many peoples' equipment batteries would be dead even if they used new batteries, or technology would malfunction during EVP sessions. Maybe they use energy as a food source, just as we use carbs? They pull energy from tangible things and have a way of retaining said energy. When the energy is low, they 'refill?'

Who knows what they would do. You would think with their knowledge about previous lives that they would use it for something very important. What I really want to know is if they can kill fellow spirits, and if so, what happens to the spirit then? A spirit's spirit life?
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2010 06:46 pm
@IceB0x,
I agree. It is interesting to me how people in one's life who grow in different directions, putting it mildly, can maintain attachment - when they can. My cousins and I took a trip together last November. We handled it mostly with talking about areas of agreement and interest, as we had mutual experience with destructive family vibrations and didn't want to go there with it (cousin and I in our sixties, her husband 70). I suspect we are old enough to drop division when cohesion matters. On politics and religion, we just agreed we disagree. Ghosts didn't come up in the conversations in November, but I remember the old bruhahas.
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2010 07:32 pm
@Krumple,
Maybe they absorb ambient energy via ghostmosis.
0 Replies
 
IceB0x
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2010 08:48 pm
@ossobuco,
It seems politics and religion are the biggest point of disagreement in life anymore - family and nonfamily. Avoiding them is just what's best for both parties. My family is too gossipy to leave disagreements or issues alone. If only they were wise enough to let well enough alone.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 08:50 am
@IceB0x,
IceB0x wrote:
There are unexplained videos. Ghost adventures, for example, had a brick fly in a room. It was examined by several specialists who all say there is no explanation and had valid reasons as to why. It sounds fake, maybe. Considering after that Nick and Zak were so desperate to get out that they jumped from a two story building fire escape with no idea where they were landing leads me to believe they were genuinely scared. I'm still with you, though, as a skeptic. You can never really believe television.
Genuinely scared of WHAT, exactly ?
In other words, if there is a disembodied spirit there,
does that indicate a specific danger ?

What harm is expected to result from such a contact?

In his place, I 'd be interested in an interview.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 09:00 am
@Reyn,
IceB0x wrote:
Do you believe in ghosts/life after death?
Reyn wrote:
First of all, let me state that I am not a religious person in the usual sense of the word.
I am not attached to any organized group.
I do feel that there is more to life than what we currently generally know.

The term "life after death" is rather misleading, in my view.

I do not believe that the death of the physical body is the end of who we are. Rather, life continues,
but in a different form.

The atoms of that "form" vibrate at a very high rate, so that these forms are not visible to human eyes.
This would be much like animals being able to hear sounds at higher frequencies, that human ears could not pick up.

From Wikipedia:
Quote:
The law of conservation of energy is an empirical law of physics. It states that the total amount of energy in an isolated system remains constant over time (is said to be conserved over time). A consequence of this law is that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only be transformed from one state to another. ...


As for ghosts, they are merely earth-bound entities that do not realize that they have "died". Or, that they may be bound
to a specific location due to an emotional attachment of some kind.

I also believe karma plays into some of the things that you mention in the latter part of your post.
I agree with most of your assertions.
I doubt that we will continue on in the form of atoms of matter,
any more than we were atoms of matter before we incarnated.

I suspect that a better analogy
is the entry and egress of a radio wave into and from the atoms of a radio.

Ghosts do not appear to sense the passage of time; it means little to them.
Some of them have had mental problems, ofen resulting from misery or trauma resulting in suicide or murder.





David
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 09:08 am
@IceB0x,
IceB0x wrote:
There are unexplained videos. Ghost adventures, for example, had a brick fly in a room. It was examined by several specialists who all say there is no explanation and had valid reasons as to why. It sounds fake, maybe. Considering after that Nick and Zak were so desperate to get out that they jumped from a two story building fire escape with no idea where they were landing leads me to believe they were genuinely scared. I'm still with you, though, as a skeptic. You can never really believe television.

In cases like this, I ask myself "what value or knowledge have I gained from what I just saw?" In other words, part of my measurement for validity is Value or Knowledge.

This may seem like an odd way to validate something, but I find it useful to remember that experiences or sights which don't provide us with some value are essentially useless.

Sunsets are valuable just for how they look, but a flying brick (if that's what it really was) is really only valuable if it tells us something about how it moved, it's not intrinsically valuable in any other way.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 09:17 am
@rosborne979,
IceB0x wrote:
There are unexplained videos. Ghost adventures, for example, had a brick fly in a room. It was examined by several specialists who all say there is no explanation and had valid reasons as to why. It sounds fake, maybe. Considering after that Nick and Zak were so desperate to get out that they jumped from a two story building fire escape with no idea where they were landing leads me to believe they were genuinely scared. I'm still with you, though, as a skeptic. You can never really believe television.
rosborne979 wrote:

In cases like this, I ask myself "what value or knowledge have I gained from what I just saw?" In other words, part of my measurement for validity is Value or Knowledge.

This may seem like an odd way to validate something, but I find it useful to remember that experiences or sights which don't provide us with some value are essentially useless.

Sunsets are valuable just for how they look, but a flying brick (if that's what it really was) is really only valuable if it tells us something about how it moved, it's not intrinsically valuable in any other way.

According to your reasoning if u find a nickel that is half as valid as if u find a dime
and if u find useless stone, that is an illusion (unless it is found to include a valuable mineral, whereupon it emerges from illusion).
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 09:18 am
@rosborne979,
Validity n value r distinct concepts.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 10:02 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Validity n value r distinct concepts.

I know. The point I was trying to make was kind of subtle. You seem to be more of a "black vs white" type of guy so I'm not surprised you are oversimplifying.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 11:45 am
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Validity n value r distinct concepts.

I know. The point I was trying to make was kind of subtle.
You seem to be more of a "black vs white" type of guy so I'm not surprised you are oversimplifying.
I 've made no effort to surprize u. No good comes from surprizing u.

Do u disapprove of the binary system of O and 1? (black v. white)

Woud it add to your happiness if the system were O, .5 and 1 ?





David
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 12:57 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

rosborne979 wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Validity n value r distinct concepts.

I know. The point I was trying to make was kind of subtle.
You seem to be more of a "black vs white" type of guy so I'm not surprised you are oversimplifying.
I 've made no effort to surprize u.
Nor did I imply that you did.
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Do u disapprove of the binary system of O and 1? (black v. white)

Of course not. Binary is math, and there are absolutes in math. The real world is more dynamic than that.
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Woud it add to your happiness if the system were O, .5 and 1 ?

Irrelevant. See above.





David

[/quote]
0 Replies
 
IceB0x
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 02:24 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
They were locked in a hotel for 12 hours at night, which had reportedly had 'ghosts.' They do lock downs and investigate all night. In the dark, they can only see with their night vision cameras. A brick flew from the floor across the room, which.. if some 'entity' is throwing bricks, do you think it's harmful? Just the shock of a brick, which would take quite a momentum/energy from a ghost to throw, would cause any normal person to fear it or question it. His reaction was to be in fear. In previous lock downs he had been scratched, pushed, and threatened. I think if anyone had those experiences, caution is the first reaction.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 02:27 pm
@IceB0x,
IceB0x wrote:

They were locked in a hotel for 12 hours at night, which had reportedly had 'ghosts.' They do lock downs and investigate all night. In the dark, they can only see with their night vision cameras. A brick flew from the floor across the room, which.. if some 'entity' is throwing bricks, do you think it's harmful? Just the shock of a brick, which would take quite a momentum/energy from a ghost to throw, would cause any normal person to fear it or question it. His reaction was to be in fear. In previous lock downs he had been scratched, pushed, and threatened. I think if anyone had those experiences, caution is the first reaction.


Wait a minute, what the hell is a brick doing just randomly placed in a hotel? Oh and this is a show right? How do you know they didn't ask the boom operator to toss the brick? Yes I know, I am skeptical by nature but I am not going to accept the fact that some hotel has random bricks laying around that ghosts like to pick up and throw around. You know if I was a ghost, that is what I would do, hang out in some hotel and toss bricks around.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 02:58 pm
@Krumple,
IceB0x wrote:

They were locked in a hotel for 12 hours at night, which had reportedly had 'ghosts.' They do lock downs and investigate all night. In the dark, they can only see with their night vision cameras. A brick flew from the floor across the room, which.. if some 'entity' is throwing bricks, do you think it's harmful? Just the shock of a brick, which would take quite a momentum/energy from a ghost to throw, would cause any normal person to fear it or question it. His reaction was to be in fear. In previous lock downs he had been scratched, pushed, and threatened. I think if anyone had those experiences, caution is the first reaction.
Krumple wrote:
Wait a minute, what the hell is a brick doing just randomly placed in a hotel? Oh and this is a show right? How do you know they didn't ask the boom operator to toss the brick? Yes I know, I am skeptical by nature but I am not going to accept the fact that some hotel has random bricks laying around that ghosts like to pick up and throw around. You know if I was a ghost, that is what I would do, hang out in some hotel and toss bricks around.
U put that very well, Mr. Krumple. U 've got me convinced.





David
0 Replies
 
 

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