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What is the meaning of this life we speak of?

 
 
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 11:20 am
It is apparent that people have extremely different viewpoints on just about everything under the sun and beyond it. What I am wondering about is motivation or reason.
In other words, what do you think the meaning of life is?

Please take into account the subjective/objective, the idea of a soul, religion, existence, love, matter, science, morality, and whatever else you can think of that pertains to "meaning".
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 11:25 am
Why did you choose to tag this topic with the tags: "science" and "religion?"

Just curious. I think it speaks to some assumptions about the question itself.

A
R
T
A Lyn Fei
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 11:27 am
@failures art,
Because these are two popular and controversial methods of creating meaning in life.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 11:37 am
@A Lyn Fei,
Hi A Lyn.

To Live.

Best wishes.
Mark...
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 11:37 am
@A Lyn Fei,
True, but perhaps to allow for the most abstract thoughts, we should not box ourselves in too early. If there is a meaning, it might not have anything to do with either.

I don't happen to believe there is a meaning in life. That is to say, I don't believe that we (or any other living organism) have a designed purpose. I believe that life (mechanically speaking) is an inevitable outcome of nature, and any patterns we observe are ours to assign meaning to.

E.g. - Nature doesn't write user instructions on the back of a stone. It's humans that pick it up and decide that a flat stone is for skipping across water.

A
R
T
A Lyn Fei
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 11:46 am
@mark noble,
Of course I agree, but I think many people need more than this reason to appreciate life. I am a non-theistic realist. Many people ask me about what I believe the point of this all is if I don't believe there is anything beyond our infinite cosmos, and I also believe nothing can be proven to be objective.
Thank you for seeing through words to the point.

Perhaps a question for you might be, why do think other people are so reliant on their "reason" for living? If you say fear, I will only ask you to dig deeper.

A Lyn Fei
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 11:50 am
@failures art,
But aren't you, then, considering science when you determine that there is no meaning?
And I am inclined to agree that meaning has nothing to do with either religion or science. Neither brings meaning to my own life, though I believe they have importance for many people.
One more question: what motivates you if you believe there is no designed purpose to your or any life?
Arjuna
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 11:56 am
@A Lyn Fei,
A Lyn Fei wrote:

And I am inclined to agree that meaning has nothing to do with either religion or science. Neither brings meaning to my own life, though I believe they have importance for many people.
What does bring meaning to your life?
A Lyn Fei
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 12:04 pm
@Arjuna,
The fact that I exist. I get to experience living. I think therefore I experience. Because this is all that I believe, I also get to decide what is important in my life and what is not. All of these thoughts bring meaning to my life. How about yours?
Arjuna
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 12:28 pm
@A Lyn Fei,
A Lyn Fei wrote:

The fact that I exist. I get to experience living. I think therefore I experience. Because this is all that I believe, I also get to decide what is important in my life and what is not. All of these thoughts bring meaning to my life. How about yours?
A friend of mine says we're all lottery winners. If you look at all the ways things could have gone... it appears that the odds were against my existence. But here I am!

Sometimes I feel like I wander around in my psyche like it's a landscape. I pick up on themes. Will and Love are obvious themes.

Not everybody would get what you mean when you say Life is its own point. I think we're on the same page. Would we also agree that when we say Life, we mean everything? Trying to find something outside of everything to anchor meaning to a strange thing. I think we all do it, though. I think it's part of the way our minds work. Part of the story is the meaning of the word: meaningless.
A Lyn Fei
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 12:48 pm
@Arjuna,
Since I believe in the infinite, that I exist is not about odds or winning a grand lottery. The fact that consciousness exists is something I am still struggling with. I'm not sure how anyone could ever explain that. But, I do focus on themes, as you do. Love is one of the most dominant themes in my life. What do you mean, though, when you say "when we say life, we mean everything?" I'm not sure what "everything" is to you. There is nothing outside of everything because nothing does not exist. Mark Noble has a good thread about that. Now that I'm thinking about it, everything does not exist either because it implies a limit, but for the sake of this thread you can ignore my ramblings.
Are you saying that everyone searches for meaning outside of the material world? If so, do you find meaning in the material world, implying that you believe the material world exists?
Krumple
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 12:49 pm
@Arjuna,
Arjuna wrote:

A Lyn Fei wrote:

The fact that I exist. I get to experience living. I think therefore I experience. Because this is all that I believe, I also get to decide what is important in my life and what is not. All of these thoughts bring meaning to my life. How about yours?
A friend of mine says we're all lottery winners. If you look at all the ways things could have gone... it appears that the odds were against my existence. But here I am!

Sometimes I feel like I wander around in my psyche like it's a landscape. I pick up on themes. Will and Love are obvious themes.

Not everybody would get what you mean when you say Life is its own point. I think we're on the same page. Would we also agree that when we say Life, we mean everything? Trying to find something outside of everything to anchor meaning to a strange thing. I think we all do it, though. I think it's part of the way our minds work. Part of the story is the meaning of the word: meaningless.


I saw a comedian once make a joke about being the sperm in the lead struggling to the be one that wins the prize. Only to discover that he had been born into a white trash family in a trailer park destined with a life that will go absolutely no where. What kind of prize is that? It's a miracle!

I hesitate and cringe any time I hear someone trying to use the lottery as an analogy to the rarity of existence and that since existence is so unlikely that it must have been done by some kind of intelligence. The whole analogy is so mistaken and poorly thought out that I can't believe anyone actually buys it at a legitimate argument.

The universe is incredibly old. Life did not spring up instantly after the universe came about. At least not from what kind of evidence we have it does not seem so immediate. Not only that but it still took billions of years before intelligent life came about, that is if you can consider humans intelligent. I am still debating weather or not we are actually intelligent. But that is a different topic all together. So if the point was to have humans come about why take so long before humans were the result? The one thing the universe has an abundance of, is time and you can pretty much write time out of the equation then. So if any one ever uses the lottery analogy the best refutation of it is to say, well how much time do you need to play to win? Think about it.

If the odds were 1 in a billion chance of winning the lottery and you played the same sequence of numbers every time you played, and you only bought one ticket each time the drawing happened. How long do you think it would take before you won? If you can cross time off the equation, then does it matter how long it will take? No. Eventually you will win and that is a guarantee. It's only a matter of time.

Same with existence, it's only a matter of time.
A Lyn Fei
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 12:55 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:


I saw a comedian once make a joke about being the sperm in the lead struggling to the be one that wins the prize. Only to discover that he had been born into a white trash family in a trailer park destined with a life that will go absolutely no where. What kind of prize is that? It's a miracle!

I hesitate and cringe any time I hear someone trying to use the lottery as an analogy to the rarity of existence and that since existence is so unlikely that it must have been done by some kind of intelligence. The whole analogy is so mistaken and poorly thought out that I can't believe anyone actually buys it at a legitimate argument.

The universe is incredibly old. Life did not spring up instantly after the universe came about. At least not from what kind of evidence we have it does not seem so immediate. Not only that but it still took billions of years before intelligent life came about, that is if you can consider humans intelligent. I am still debating weather or not we are actually intelligent. But that is a different topic all together. So if the point was to have humans come about why take so long before humans were the result? The one thing the universe has an abundance of, is time and you can pretty much write time out of the equation then. So if any one ever uses the lottery analogy the best refutation of it is to say, well how much time do you need to play to win? Think about it.

If the odds were 1 in a billion chance of winning the lottery and you played the same sequence of numbers every time you played, and you only bought one ticket each time the drawing happened. How long do you think it would take before you won? If you can cross time off the equation, then does it matter how long it will take? No. Eventually you will win and that is a guarantee. It's only a matter of time.

Same with existence, it's only a matter of time.


That is a scientific answer, then? And, it does explain existence of the human race, of our planet, of our "unlikely" circumstance in the universe. However, what of your own, individual life? What of your conscious awareness that everything is going on in this particular time period? What meaning do you give that, if any?
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 01:03 pm
@A Lyn Fei,
A Lyn Fei wrote:
That is a scientific answer, then? And, it does explain existence of the human race, of our planet, of our "unlikely" circumstance in the universe. However, what of your own, individual life? What of your conscious awareness that everything is going on in this particular time period? What meaning do you give that, if any?


Well first of all, no it's not scientific. It is a simple deduction.

I am not even sure what you are asking me here. You have multiple questions that don't even seem to be related.

Your own individual life would come about not because you are some entity that was waiting for a body, but you are a live because this is the consciousness that is aware. You believe yourself to be some entity that is special or unique in the universe but really you are nothing more than a biological chemical event that believes it is special or unique. Your awareness is no different than anyone else awareness. You are the result but not a passenger that just decided to hop on the train of life at this point in time. I don't buy any argument that would suggest that being the case. At least not one without any evidence.

You are just a biological happening. I know most people don't want to accept that, they simply can not cope with life being that basic. They really need to feel as if they are something important and significant so they refuse to accept that all they really are is just a biological happening that will one day stop happening and never happen again.
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 01:48 pm
@A Lyn Fei,
The short term goal is simple, learn, fall in love, get kids, raise them ..die.

What you do in between aforementioned stuff is purely up to you, what you really wants to do.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 02:48 pm
@A Lyn Fei,
A Lyn Fei wrote:

But aren't you, then, considering science when you determine that there is no meaning?

Unless we anthropomorphize nature itself, what "meaning" could science provide?

I may drop a 100kg mass at an elevation of 1 meter. Science can be used to tell you what the natural forces of the universe will do to this system. Science will not offer a meaning as to why the mass travels to the ground. Vertical translation is simply the product of natural forces on the mass.

A Lyn Fei wrote:

And I am inclined to agree that meaning has nothing to do with either religion or science. Neither brings meaning to my own life, though I believe they have importance for many people.

Science is important whether we feel the same about it or not. To quote my professor: "Nature always wins." Man cannot trivialize nature. Science won't offer any meaning, it will only offer you facts and patterns.

A Lyn Fei wrote:

One more question: what motivates you if you believe there is no designed purpose to your or any life?

Because no purpose is required to live. Similarly it is not required to have a favorite number or color to be alive.

A
R
T
Pemerson
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 03:17 pm
It's just yet another chance to find the meaning of life.
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 04:03 pm
@A Lyn Fei,
Hi A Lyn,
I can't speak for all 7 billion of them. Well I can actually - so will......................Doubt!
XXX
Mark...
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  3  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 04:19 pm
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:
To Live.
Best wishes.
Mark...


and die

a real measure of the meaning of a life only comes after death, in my opinion, until then there is still potential for success or failure

0 Replies
 
Arjuna
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 05:30 pm
@failures art,
failures art wrote:


Because no purpose is required to live. Similarly it is not required to have a favorite number or color to be alive.

I'd say yes and no to that. I'd go with Victor Frankl that a person can/will endure any how as long as they have a why. It's intuition... call it crap if you want... I've seen it. A person stays alive until the reason they were living is resolved.

I think seeing what you're saying requires looking at it from a different angle. Which would be: ?
 

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