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A2K challenge!

 
 
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2010 07:23 pm
[Foreword] None in my former Philosophyforum.com has cracked this story, so I let you A2K to the challenge.

----

[Intro] Long have I ponderd about logic, most of what has been avaliable was only what I call "liniar logic" which I define as clearly defined prerimiters, clearly defined frame of scenario, objective and purpose ..etc.

People with high IQ would be able to solve highly complex liniar logically matters, but ..when matter, purpose and objective ..etc, becomes unclear people with high IQ often fail, because they need to have defined perimiters and such, that's where RQ comes to play.

I was inspired to ponder about this by reading this article: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427321.000-clever-fools-why-a-high-iq-doesnt-mean-youre-smart.html

I have a brilliant doctor friend, who uncritically told me a story he heard in a auditorium filled with fellow doctors at Panum (danish educational institute ..or something)

This story he told me I will propose as a challenge to this forum.

Quote:
2 garbage men, who had been in the buisness for 2 decades, who had sufferd foul odeurs through out their career, took on a vacation to Turkey and went to the perfume streets.
As they walked the one would become ill, and in the end fell to the ground. The helpful perfume sellers would aid the poor man with their smelling salts, but only making him go to a deeper coma.
The other garbage man would realize it was the thick odour in the street that caused the problem, and pulled his friend out to cleaner air, which helped and he would awaken from the coma.

Conclusion: each their scent.
 
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2010 07:59 pm
@HexHammer,
Um...where's the challenge?
Butrflynet
 
  3  
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2010 08:06 pm
@dlowan,
I've been trying to figure that out too. I thought he may be asking us to explain why the garbage men were affected by perfumes and smelling salts but not by their workday garbage smells. Was waiting for someone else to respond and identify what is the challenge.

In any case, the only thing I can think of to explain the differing reactions to various smells is:

Much like many cat owners with litter boxes in the house, you get used to (or desensitized to) the ammonia/urine odor in your own house; so use to it that you don't even smell it anymore. Yet, you can visit the house of someone else with a cat and immediately know there is a litter box present.

The garbage men were probably desensitized to the smells of their workday, but were strongly affected by the chemical and floral odors of the perfumes and smelling salts.

I know that I personally have a strong physical reaction to the aromas in some perfumes and can't be in the same room with them.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2010 08:09 pm
@HexHammer,
I can't read the article you linked to, have to be subscribed to the site to do so.

Any possibility of summarizing it or pasting some excerpts?
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2010 08:09 pm
@dlowan,
Uhmmm...it's all over the place, observe and analyze my friend Smile

My fellow philosophers at philosophyforum.com only solved this partially.
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2010 08:12 pm
@Butrflynet,
Butrflynet wrote:

I can't read the article you linked to, have to be subscribed to the site to do so.

Any possibility of summarizing it or pasting some excerpts?
The link has nothing to do with the key to solve the challenge, it was just a mere copy and paste from another post with another purpose. There are ample info, even more than I ever got when I cracked the story.

[edit] here's a new link Clever Fools IQ v RQ
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2010 08:58 pm
Well, posing as Dr. Gregory House, I would say that the man may not have fallen ill because of the perfume at all.

He may have eaten or drunk something he was sensitive too, but his friend was not.


Giving him smelling salts may not have counteracted the natural progression into a deeper coma.

I don't believe you give smelling salts to take someone out of a coma anyway.

He might have picked up some horrible parasite years ago, related to his profession, or not, and this was just the time he was taken with it.

Taking him to fresh air doesn't necessarily mean he was recovering. Perhaps he was just having a momentary stage of consciousness.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2010 09:21 pm
@HexHammer,
Thanks! I enjoyed the puzzle questions scattered throughout the article.
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2010 09:38 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer wrote:

Quote:
2 garbage men, who had been in the buisness for 2 decades, who had sufferd foul odeurs through out their career, took on a vacation to Turkey and went to the perfume streets.
As they walked the one would become ill, and in the end fell to the ground. The helpful perfume sellers would aid the poor man with their smelling salts, but only making him go to a deeper coma.
The other garbage man would realize it was the thick odour in the street that caused the problem, and pulled his friend out to cleaner air, which helped and he would awaken from the coma.

Conclusion: each their scent.



something seems wrong with the grqammer or tense of the artical.
It is written almost as if this has happened several times
took on a vacation
one would become ill
sellers would aid the poor man
other garbage man would realize
and he would awaken from the coma.

chai2
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2010 09:43 pm
@dadpad,
dadpad wrote:

HexHammer wrote:

Quote:
2 garbage men, who had been in the buisness for 2 decades, who had sufferd foul odeurs through out their career, took on a vacation to Turkey and went to the perfume streets.
As they walked the one would become ill, and in the end fell to the ground. The helpful perfume sellers would aid the poor man with their smelling salts, but only making him go to a deeper coma.
The other garbage man would realize it was the thick odour in the street that caused the problem, and pulled his friend out to cleaner air, which helped and he would awaken from the coma.

Conclusion: each their scent.



something seems wrong with the grqammer or tense of the artical.
It is written almost as if this has happened several times
took on a vacation
one would become ill
sellers would aid the poor man
other garbage man would realize
and he would awaken from the coma.




that was bothering me too.
like this was written by someone for whom english is not their first language.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2010 09:45 pm
Hm, Turkey is known for a lot of knock-off perfumes - perhaps the chemicals
made him ill.
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  3  
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2010 09:52 pm
Answer:
There is no such thing as common sense.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2010 10:04 pm
@dadpad,
Perhaps this is a clue:

Quote:
a brilliant doctor friend, who uncritically told me a story he heard in a auditorium filled with fellow doctors


He only overheard fragments of the story someone else was telling in that noisy, crowded auditorium and, therefore, only relayed fragmented facts to his friend who then again retold the story to the friend posing the challenge.

How do we even know that all the overheard fragmented facts were all from the same original storyteller and not bits and pieces of conversation from many sources in a crowded room?
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  3  
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2010 10:10 pm
Answer:
one mans meat is another mans poisen
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  3  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2010 09:09 am
I'm still wondering what there is to "crack" about this story.

Are we supposed to figure out why he got sick?

I mean, this sort of thing happens all the time, where 2 people are exposed to something, and react differently. Even reacting differently to something said or written.

Any one of the facets of the story could be relevant, or not. Is is relevant this is about 2 men, not 2 women, or a man or a women?

Not meaning to parody Dr. House again, but this isn't interesting to me, yet.
I'd have to know a lot of the sickened persons background, the differences between his and his friends background.
What if they were 2 accountants, and not garbage men?
What is they went to Greece rather than Turkey, or New Mexico?

What if they were walking through a restaurant district, or one where metals were being crafts?

Would it have made any difference if they were running through the area, or biking, or in a car (open or closed), or riding a horse or mule, or goat cart?

What is it we are looking to solve?
0 Replies
 
Tryst
 
  3  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2010 12:33 pm
Due to the indisposition of Mister 'Tryagain' he has asked that this be forwarded for your delectation.


START

The first thing that struck me was the conclusion: 'each their scent'.
Which is an anagram for 'Catches Therein'

And so it came to pass; the reason for your difficulty may in part be due to the fact that this as presented is a "Wicked problem" a phrase used in social planning to describe a problem that is difficult or impossible to solve because of incomplete, contradictory, and changing requirements that are often difficult to recognize.

Moreover, because of complex interdependencies, the effort to solve one aspect of a wicked problem may reveal or create other problems.

Seeking to generalize the concept of problem wickedness, Conklin identifies the following as defining characteristics of wicked problems:

1. The problem is not understood until after the formulation of a solution.

2. Wicked problems have no stopping rule.*

3. Solutions to wicked problems are not right or wrong.

4. Every wicked problem is essentially novel and unique.

5. Every solution to a wicked problem is a 'one shot operation'

6. Wicked problems have no given alternative solutions.


*A stopping time with respect to a sequence of random variables X1, X2, ... is a random variable τ with the property that for each t, the occurrence or non-occurrence of the event τ = t depends only on the values of X1, X2, ..., Xt, and furthermore Pr(τ < ∞) = 1, or that τ be almost surely finite, although some authors omit this requirement.

Therefore my friends wicked problems are also characterised by the following:

1. The solution depends on how the problem is framed and vice-versa (i.e. the problem definition depends on the solution)

2. Stakeholders have radically different world views and different frames for understanding the problem.

3. The constraints that the problem is subject to and the resources needed to solve it change over time.

4. The problem is never solved definitively.




Super wicked problems:

Kelly Levin, Benjamin Cashore, Steven Bernstein and Graeme Auld introduced in 2007 the distinction between "wicked" and "super wicked problems" in their paper "Playing it Forward: Path Dependency.

They defined super wicked problems as having the following additional characteristics:

Time is running out.
No central authority.
Those seeking to solve the problem are also causing it.
Hyperbolic discounting occurs**

**Given two similar rewards, humans show a preference for one that arrives sooner rather than later.

Amen to that brother; send cash c/o A2K - Thank you.
END
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 01:32 pm
Hey Hex Hammer!!!

what's the deal?
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 05:58 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

Hey Hex Hammer!!!

what's the deal?
About what? Challenge being too difficult ..or what?
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 07:43 pm
No, at least not yet.

I think we're all trying to figure out what exactly the challenge is.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one trying to figure out what it is you're asking for.
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 07:20 am
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

No, at least not yet.

I think we're all trying to figure out what exactly the challenge is.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one trying to figure out what it is you're asking for.
That is part of the challenge.
 

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