Can Any Two Things Be Identical???

Hi, Miller! Guess you know my mosquito & fly response was a joke. They all identical in being the spawn of hell!

Samm

P.S. Do you know how I can get this "phil" thing off my name?

If restricted to the parameters mentioned earlier, then space/time is a limiting factor that does not allow two items to ever be 100% identical, because two physical items cannot occupy the same space at the same time.

Hi Everyone,
Can you think of any two things that are identical to one another in every way?
This is an ongoing research question, and all your answers will be gratefully received.
Thank you.
Mark...

You canno step into the same river twice, thus;no two things are equal

DrDick wrote:

If restricted to the parameters mentioned earlier, then space/time is a limiting factor that does not allow two items to ever be 100% identical, because two physical items cannot occupy the same space at the same time.

Agreed. This is just good physics - specificly, the Uncertainty Principle.

X and Y are qualitatively identical if and only if X and Y have exactly the same properties. That is, every property of X is a property of Y, and every property of Y is a property of X.

You canno step into the same river twice, thus;no two things are equal

mark noble wrote:

Hi Everyone,
Can you think of any two things that are identical to one another in every way?
This is an ongoing research question, and all your answers will be gratefully received.
Thank you.
Mark...

As I have been pointing out, the question is ambiguous because the word, "identical" is ambiguous. One meaning of "identical" is: numerically identical. For X and Y to be numerically identical (or "one and the same") then X=Y. So, in this sense of "identical" (numerically identical) if X and Y are numerically identical, then X and Y are one and the same thing. And there are not two things but only one thing. The second meaning of "identical" is qualitatively identical. X and Y are qualitatively identical if and only if X and Y have exactly the same properties. That is, every property of X is a property of Y, and every property of Y is a property of X. In this sense of "identical", qualitatively identical, it is possible for two things to be identical. So, the answer, and the only answer to your question is, it depends on what is meant by "identical". If by "identical" is meant numerically identical, then the answer is, no. But if by "identical" is meant qualitatively identical, then the answer to your question is yes. The above is the only possible answer to your question, and the answer is, no, if you mean numercial identity, but yes if you mean qualitative identity. And that is the entire story.

Alan McDougall wrote:

You canno step into the same river twice, thus;no two things are equal

But you can step into the same river twice, or even 200 times (depending on how much you mind wet feet). Although what that would have to do with the question, I have no idea.

kennethamy wrote:

mark noble wrote:

Hi Everyone,
Can you think of any two things that are identical to one another in every way?
This is an ongoing research question, and all your answers will be gratefully received.
Thank you.
Mark...

As I have been pointing out, the question is ambiguous because the word, "identical" is ambiguous. One meaning of "identical" is: numerically identical. For X and Y to be numerically identical (or "one and the same") then X=Y. So, in this sense of "identical" (numerically identical) if X and Y are numerically identical, then X and Y are one and the same thing. And there are not two things but only one thing. The second meaning of "identical" is qualitatively identical. X and Y are qualitatively identical if and only if X and Y have exactly the same properties. That is, every property of X is a property of Y, and every property of Y is a property of X. In this sense of "identical", qualitatively identical, it is possible for two things to be identical. So, the answer, and the only answer to your question is, it depends on what is meant by "identical". If by "identical" is meant numerically identical, then the answer is, no. But if by "identical" is meant qualitatively identical, then the answer to your question is yes. The above is the only possible answer to your question, and the answer is, no, if you mean numercial identity, but yes if you mean qualitative identity. And that is the entire story.

From the point of view of philosophy, Identity only has one meaning, which is the Principal of Identity, known in physics as Conservation, that referes to the conseverd quality of every concept... It is not an equality, but rather of means of making meaningful comparisons... We do not compare apples and oranges...

kennethamy wrote:

Alan McDougall wrote:

You canno step into the same river twice, thus;no two things are equal

But you can step into the same river twice, or even 200 times (depending on how much you mind wet feet). Although what that would have to do with the question, I have no idea.

This is incorrect... Phenomenally, we are changed as much by our experience of the river as the river is changed by time... Identity does not question whether a river is equal to itself, but instead, asks if a river is a river, because before, during, and after, that river will remain a river, since that identity is conserved...
If you cut a line in half, or double its size it is still a line... The operations one performs on it will not change its identity...A cat will be a cat if it loses a leg, or a tail... The changes become meaningful in comparison with others of the same identity.

I am certain there is something transendental you do not get about the river thing...

Hi Ken,
A river ceases to be a river if it has nothing in it. And stepping into the Nile on two different occassions constitutes - seperation - which only tends to support the argument that "no two things are identical". And, it is unwise to do so (step into the Nile) unless you "The stepper" are absolutely positive there are no crocodiles nearby.
Best wishes Ken.
Mark...

mark noble wrote:

Hi Ken,
A river ceases to be a river if it has nothing in it. And stepping into the Nile on two different occassions constitutes - seperation - which only tends to support the argument that "no two things are identical". And, it is unwise to do so (step into the Nile) unless you "The stepper" are absolutely positive there are no crocodiles nearby.
Best wishes Ken.
Mark...

A river without water is a dried up river. The river is a geographical entity that can be located. It is essentially identical with the river-bed. The water in a river is constantly changing, but the river, the geographical entity, which is shown on a map, remains the same even while the water that flows through it changes. Of course, the river-bed itself my suffer erosion, or even shift. But that is a different matter, and certainly not what Heraclitus meant. The truth just is that Heraclitus was confusing the river with the water that flowed through the river-bed. Why not simply acknowledge that? Whather what Heraclitus was trying to express, namely that everything changes, and that there is no permanence (whatever that comes to) is true, is another kettle of fish. (Although if that means that nothing persists through change, I think that is obviously false). But if that was what Heraclitus was trying to express he use a lousy example to express it, whether or not what he was trying to express was true.