4
   

God's Lottery

 
 
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2010 08:58 pm
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:

It was not my desire or intent to embarrass you. Also, I make no judgement on you. I am not really concerned about your ego. I am only concerned with understanding what we are talking about.

Not sure about your desire (sun smile), but I believe your intent was not to harm.
I am constantly concerned with my ego and a little to much with others.
Don't fret I don't always know what I'm talking about either,
or asking,
hence the question.
I am a builder,
I do not know very well how things need to be torn down.
Intrepid wrote:

Again, I am not trying to embarrass you, but your definition of lottery as being anything thought to be a matter of chance covers a wide area. Lottery, on the one hand is as I stated.

Of course, a very wide area, and your previous answer was a fine one, but only in the confines of what we select 'lottery' to mean.
Which was why I suggested other avenues,
I could have been more pleasant.
Intrepid wrote:

Given your definition, you seem to be asking more to whether God controls anything that we consider to be chance. Winning a lottery or otherwise. If you actually mean, by your original question.....Does God control everything we do, I would have to say no. Our own free will determines what we do with what He has provided us with. His guiding hand will, hopefully, help us to make proper choices.

Now this is the answer from you I am interested in exploring.
We need first define 'chance' as well.
Not necessarily everything we do,
but certainly something to do with the outcome.
Are we the winning ticket?
What is it we are winning?
Are our winnings owed to something else?
Are we in credit due to the interference of a God?

Possible a deletion of choice at its core?

Have a great day or night, I am off to bed.
0 Replies
 
Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2010 09:00 pm
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:
Why's that? I'm only saying "what will be will be" Doesn't mean it's foreseeable or innately negative.

I do understand one should try the best to accept situations that have happened to us, or that we are currently involved in.

On the other hand, I wouldn't get up out of bed in the morning if I knew that there was some "pre-destined plan" that I was totally powerless to change in anyways. I'm not quite sure if that what was you had intended, because I would view this in a negative light.

In my opinion, we can very much shape our own future to much extent. Our initiatives shine a light on our path.

Do you believe in karma at all?
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2010 09:12 pm
@Reyn,
Hi Reyn,
I love life, come what may. And Karma? - Do you mean "destiny" Or present state of being = future state of being?
Best wishes,
Mark...
A Lyn Fei
 
  2  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2010 09:53 pm
@sometime sun,
I am not a theist. However, since the conversation has drifted, I will offer my opinion. I am a determinist, rationally speaking. Everything is absolutely "predetermined" as cause and effect can be traced back infinitely. However, Aristotle believed that God and matter were two existing things and that God set matter into motion and therefore it was the first cause and everything thence is predestined because of God, etc. The issue I'm having with this conversation is that there is confusion between whether things are predetermined or if one can know what will happen next.
Even though I believe that everything would be predictable if one had all of the data in the universe collected on Multivac, this is not the case and therefore we cannot know what will happen next. This means that life is very worthwhile and that every decision we make, from whether to play the lottery to whether you believe in God, is important. The experience is everything. So yes, God in the sense that I would define God (not my belief, merely for the sake of this argument), does determine who wins the lottery. Although, it doesn't choose who wins the lottery as choosing admits some kind of thought process.
Krumple
 
  2  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2010 10:26 pm
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:

Hi Reyn,
I love life, come what may. And Karma? - Do you mean "destiny" Or present state of being = future state of being?
Best wishes,
Mark...


karma doesn't mean destiny or a state of being.

karma is volitional action.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 08:25 am
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:

mark noble wrote:

Hi Reyn,
I love life, come what may. And Karma? - Do you mean "destiny" Or present state of being = future state of being?
Best wishes,
Mark...


karma doesn't mean destiny or a state of being.

karma is volitional action.

Hi Krumple,
It's not my definition, It's the Oxford English Dictionary's. Take it up with them.
Best wishes.
Mark...
0 Replies
 
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 02:04 pm
@A Lyn Fei,
A Lyn Fei wrote:

I am not a theist. However, since the conversation has drifted, I will offer my opinion. I am a determinist, rationally speaking. Everything is absolutely "predetermined" as cause and effect can be traced back infinitely. However, Aristotle believed that God and matter were two existing things and that God set matter into motion and therefore it was the first cause and everything thence is predestined because of God, etc. The issue I'm having with this conversation is that there is confusion between whether things are predetermined or if one can know what will happen next.
Even though I believe that everything would be predictable if one had all of the data in the universe collected on Multivac, this is not the case and therefore we cannot know what will happen next. This means that life is very worthwhile and that every decision we make, from whether to play the lottery to whether you believe in God, is important. The experience is everything. So yes, God in the sense that I would define God (not my belief, merely for the sake of this argument), does determine who wins the lottery. Although, it doesn't choose who wins the lottery as choosing admits some kind of thought process.

This is a great answer. Thank you.
I don't know how you can not have a thought process if there has already been a decision made?
Please help me out.
Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 03:55 pm
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:

... And Karma? - Do you mean "destiny" Or present state of being = future state of being?

No, not destiny.

Karma, living as the result of one's actions, either in this life, or from a past life.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 04:25 pm
@Reyn,
Hi Reyn,
I believe that every thing is one thing in every place.
Does that make any sense to you?
Have a great day.
Mark...
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 04:28 pm
@mark noble,
All for One and One for All?
0 Replies
 
Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 06:01 pm
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:
... I believe that every thing is one thing in every place. ...

Hmm, I'll have to ponder on this. Wink
0 Replies
 
A Lyn Fei
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 09:52 am
@sometime sun,
Ah, but God "determines" who wins the lottery, meaning that because of God as the first cause, a specific person will win the lottery. God is not a person and therefore did not make a decision as to who should win the lottery. This is as close a definition of God as I will come to.
0 Replies
 
g day
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Dec, 2010 06:10 am

Depending which of the 5,000+ faith system's diety you are refering to - the answer may vary. Let's say you are chosing the Christian God - answer is no - God gives us free will as a very high priority commitment - meaning he limits himself not to intervene by my understanding.

If he wanted a deterministic universe - a it would just be a big machine with a pre determined outcome. Uncertainity (alah Heinsenberg) is build into the very essence of every component on the universe and maybe space time itself. That kinda tells me this universe is meant to be a lot more sophisticated, agile and therefore variable - making it all the more interesting to watch!
0 Replies
 
 

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