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Death: A Misunderstood Concept

 
 
Zetherin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 06:38 pm
@I am question,
I am question;126922 wrote:
1+1=2 thats an absolute answer. Do we need to question words here, are we going to argue semantics?


What about 1+1=2 is absolute? First, only the "2" there is an answer, isn't it? And that answer seems to be a mathematical one.

Where does the "absolute" come in?

Quote:
Do we need to question words here, are we going to argue semantics?


Why do people always say this? What do you mean here? I don't know how to argue semantics. Can I argue syntax and pragmatics with you instead?
Reconstructo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 06:49 pm
@EnvyTheRetarted,
EnvyTheRetarted;127423 wrote:
I just now realized, while writing this, that I, in fact, fear life.


It's hard for anyone who loves not to fear sometimes. To what degree is philosophy/literature/music our counter-move to our mortality? the mortality of loved ones? No wonder they cooked up stoicism. No wonder they cooked up transmigration and immortality. (Both of which have some "truth" as metaphors...)(and who knows? maybe more? But I refuse to get my hopes up.)

---------- Post added 02-22-2010 at 07:51 PM ----------

mister kitten;127697 wrote:
What is beautiful then? Is the beauty worth living for?



Some have suggested that life is justified aesthetically. I can relate to this. I suppose I agree. But my life is only one life like no other life. We have this abstraction "life" and it is useful, but we don't live the same "life."
0 Replies
 
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 07:37 pm
@Khethil,
Its not natural to think of death constantly, we dont naturally do so, why would we find it so easy to not recognise all the time death as our always? which means there is something else, there is life. Live it dont fear it. And we dont.
If you do, and we do, understand it, death is easy to understand, it does not matter to the living. So live.
0 Replies
 
Scottydamion
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 07:37 pm
@EnvyTheRetarted,
EnvyTheRetarted;126553 wrote:
Death. People have feared both the word and the concept since the birth of cognitive thought. But I present a simple question; why? Perhaps it is the uncertainty of what comes after...or what does not.
So is this why we cling on to this, for lack of a more suitable word, ugly existence? This world is so full hate and greed, exploitation and war. This is what we have chosen to cling on to? We chose this because of our petty fear of death?
The simple fact of this matter is that we know what this life is like and has to offer. This world is nasty, brutish and cruel. What we do not know is death. We do not know any facet of what is to come. For death is just a word to describe a phase of existence. The only real thing we know concerning death is that our physical state ceases to be.
In closing, we should welcome death. We should embrace it like a gift. Do not misunderstand me. I am not saying we should all go "Jonestown" and drink the koolaid, but we should not shun such a gift as death. If I believed in hell, immortality on this plane of existence would most undoubtedly be such.


I think the point is we didn't choose it, our parents did. So you have to trace it back in order to figure out why we want to live, at least not yet.

Also, if I had not been born I would not have had the chance to decide if life is worth living, so even if I decide it isn't, I am still glad I was given the opportunity!
0 Replies
 
Charley phil
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 08:28 pm
@EnvyTheRetarted,
1.
Quote:
Death. People have feared both the word and the concept since the birth of cognitive thought. But I present a simple question; why? Perhaps it is the uncertainty of what comes after...or what does not.


Common stance on this matter. We can clearly see other creatures live and die, if not another human being. We miss it when it's not there if we become attatched, like a pet cat or what have you. There is no reason to believe anything comes afterwards but decay from our observations, whether that is what you believe or not. The nausea and horror we may feel in the absence of a loved one would account for the fear of death, which can be trumped by saving or protecting something we love in exchange for ourselves- be it person or idea.

2.
Quote:
It is true that my disposition plays a vital role in what I write, but I also take from those great writers before me. Many of the greatest philosophers and writers throughout history have seen the world in the same way.


Doesn't mean it's correct.

3.
Quote:
The Marine Corps taught me not to fear death but to invite it. I suppose that plays a major role in my opinion.


It is in their interest to teach you that, if you're going to fight you can't hesitate or you will die. How did they teach you that?
It seems like a bit of a frontal lobotomy. What are your reasons for handing yourself over to them?

4.
Quote:
This world is so full hate and greed, exploitation and war. This is what we have chosen to cling on to? We chose this because of our petty fear of death?


It is the aspect of life you have clearly chosen and supported. Why?

5.
Quote:
What we do not know is death. We do not know any facet of what is to come. For death is just a word to describe a phase of existence. The only real thing we know concerning death is that our physical state ceases to be.


Exactly. See my response to number one.

6.
Quote:
Beauty is peace. Beauty is serenity...knowing that I will have peace. That beauty is worth living. However, that beauty is not realistic. Just my opinion.


Alternatively, beauty is sometimes peace, it is sometimes art/music/math, it can be ugly like the Japanese idea of Wabi Sabi, it sometimes can be an unrealistic representation of reality, or exotic, it sometimes is truth. Depends on who 'you' are, and how perceptive you are.

7.
Quote:
In closing, we should welcome death. We should embrace it like a gift.

7.b.
Quote:
Death is a gift from a life full of pain and suffering.


Life is the gift, not death. Suffering has no meaning- lest you say we should create suffering to give us meaning. Suffering is all the same shade, no matter how big or small a matter it may be- the more we understand suffering and strive toward life instead of death, the less personal and tedious suffering becomes. Suffering will literally cut back the connections which your brain can make and is therefore unhealthy, deterministic and misguided. (*Book 'The brain that changes itself') Also by saying suffering is enough to embrace death, then you are turning your back on all the good things in it, and are therefore not worthy of anything good.

You go right ahead. I on the other hand will support the Methusela foundation.
One does not have to be afraid of something, to realize it may be unhealthful to one, and that other options may be of interest than dying.

8.
Quote:
I just now realized, while writing this, that I, in fact, fear life.



YouTube - Nellie Mckay - Ding dong (live)
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Feb, 2010 04:35 pm
@EnvyTheRetarted,
I think fear of death is a practical instinct, allowing us to act in selfpersevation, if we was just indifferent about it, we would act reckless endangering ourselfs and others. A dead person can't care for it's family and friends.

Though it can be overwritten by other values, Christians and Jews in the ancient times would not really fear death, as the promise of a better life in the afterlife would make them look upon death as a mere transition, and not the end of all things.
mister kitten
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Feb, 2010 05:44 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;132524 wrote:
I think fear of death is a practical instinct, allowing us to act in selfpersevation, if we was just indifferent about it, we would act reckless endangering ourselfs and others. A dead person can't care for it's family and friends.

Though it can be overwritten by other values, Christians and Jews in the ancient times would not really fear death, as the promise of a better life in the afterlife would make them look upon death as a mere transition, and not the end of all things.


By instinct, yes. Most animals would steer clear of death. A squirrel or bird on a track would move if a train was coming.

Humans are not birds or squirrels. We can reason with the train. We can choose to remain on the track.

What's so wrong about endangering oneself? What has come out of the fear of self endangerment? From the fear we now label coffee cups with a "Caution: HOT!" warning, ya know
Scottydamion
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Feb, 2010 05:51 pm
@mister kitten,
mister kitten;132544 wrote:
By instinct, yes. Most animals would steer clear of death. A squirrel or bird on a track would move if a train was coming.

Humans are not birds or squirrels. We can reason with the train. We can choose to remain on the track.

What's so wrong about endangering oneself? What has come out of the fear of self endangerment? From the fear we now label coffee cups with a "Caution: HOT!" warning, ya know


By all means, if you want to stay on the track go ahead. But I consider it healthy to fear death, but not to obsess over that fear. It shouldn't stop you from doing the things you want, so if you really want to stay on the track, go ahead!
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Feb, 2010 06:12 pm
@mister kitten,
mister kitten;132544 wrote:
Humans are not birds or squirrels. We can reason with the train. We can choose to remain on the track.

What's so wrong about endangering oneself? What has come out of the fear of self endangerment? From the fear we now label coffee cups with a "Caution: HOT!" warning, ya know
You have to be barking mad to get hit by a train on purpose, unless one has a deathwish, only these 2 factors will normally overwrite the selfpersevation instinct.
mister kitten
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 02:10 pm
@HexHammer,
Scottydamion;132547 wrote:
By all means, if you want to stay on the track go ahead. But I consider it healthy to fear death, but not to obsess over that fear. It shouldn't stop you from doing the things you want, so if you really want to stay on the track, go ahead!


It's going to happen; why have the fear? Why not let the fear go?

HexHammer;132552 wrote:
You have to be barking mad to get hit by a train on purpose, unless one has a deathwish, only these 2 factors will normally overwrite the selfpersevation instinct.


Barking mad, yes. Some people are barking mad.
Scottydamion
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 04:35 pm
@mister kitten,
mister kitten;132925 wrote:
It's going to happen; why have the fear? Why not let the fear go?


On the one hand I understand what you mean, but there are few situations where I know death is inevitable. I would rather accept the fear and accept death as an ultimate inevitability.
mister kitten
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 05:41 pm
@Scottydamion,
Scottydamion;132998 wrote:
On the one hand I understand what you mean, but there are few situations where I know death is inevitable. I would rather accept the fear and accept death as an ultimate inevitability.


Okay. Why have the fear though?
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 09:15 pm
@mister kitten,
mister kitten;132925 wrote:
It's going to happen; why have the fear? Why not let the fear go?

Barking mad, yes. Some people are barking mad.
You say that in an eerily casual way, making me think your empathic area is dorment. Sure you know of empathy, but has difficulties incorporating it in your equations.
mister kitten
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 01:24 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;133107 wrote:
You say that in an eerily casual way, making me think your empathic area is dorment. Sure you know of empathy, but has difficulties incorporating it in your equations.


Hahaha. Empathy helps with our morals towards others. I don't have zero empathy. But where does empathy come into the equation of my death?
prothero
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 01:34 am
@EnvyTheRetarted,
Death I think is the end of personal experience, just as birth is the beginning of experience. I do not fear death for there is no suffering, no experience.

The thought of death induces sometihing more akin to sadness than fear; for I have enjoyed the overall experience of life, and regard life as a great gift. Perhaps the knowledge of eventual certain death makes life seem all that much more precious. Carpe diem.
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 02:08 am
@mister kitten,
mister kitten;133132 wrote:
Hahaha. Empathy helps with our morals towards others. I don't have zero empathy. But where does empathy come into the equation of my death?
Now I wasn't speaking specifically about your death, infact ..I didn't know we were talking about your death, which doesn't make it less uhmmm ..<instert some word here>
0 Replies
 
Scottydamion
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 09:41 am
@mister kitten,
mister kitten;133024 wrote:
Okay. Why have the fear though?


So I don't die when I could have lived! I enjoy the ability to think, and I plan on holding on to that as long as possible! I have something I do not want to lose, therefore I FEAR what would make me lose it. It does not mean when things get rough I start to breathe fast and cry, but that is why I said a healthy fear of death.
0 Replies
 
Twilight Siren
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2010 11:40 am
@Khethil,
I've actually met several Taoists who see death as almost an "evolution" or "maturation" of the soul, allowing it to transcend the human body.

Some even say that an enlightened man, who has truly realised his oness with the Universe has the ability to leave his body and "die when he decides it's time."

Some (for those who believe in reincarnation, as not all do) just go onto their next lesson.:a-ok:
0 Replies
 
Jebediah
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2010 12:08 pm
@EnvyTheRetarted,
What's so bad about fear? We go to horror movies and theme parks to be scared.

It's immensely practical to fear death in situations where it is possible. And kind of exhilarating.

If you are talking about dreading death while going about your normal life that is something different. It's no good doing that. Although I suppose it drives some people to achieve immortality in the only way we can, by passing something on to the next generation. Or to strive to ensure they won't have any regrets upon their death.

Welcoming death doesn't seem like a great mindset though.
sneer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2010 01:50 pm
@Jebediah,
Jebediah;139631 wrote:
What's so bad about fear? We go to horror movies and theme parks to be scared.


fear is what is limiting humans.
I say "no" to any fear. I'm human.
 

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