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Death: A Misunderstood Concept

 
 
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 04:36 pm
Death. People have feared both the word and the concept since the birth of cognitive thought. But I present a simple question; why? Perhaps it is the uncertainty of what comes after...or what does not.
So is this why we cling on to this, for lack of a more suitable word, ugly existence? This world is so full hate and greed, exploitation and war. This is what we have chosen to cling on to? We chose this because of our petty fear of death?
The simple fact of this matter is that we know what this life is like and has to offer. This world is nasty, brutish and cruel. What we do not know is death. We do not know any facet of what is to come. For death is just a word to describe a phase of existence. The only real thing we know concerning death is that our physical state ceases to be.
In closing, we should welcome death. We should embrace it like a gift. Do not misunderstand me. I am not saying we should all go "Jonestown" and drink the koolaid, but we should not shun such a gift as death. If I believed in hell, immortality on this plane of existence would most undoubtedly be such.
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mister kitten
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 04:54 pm
@EnvyTheRetarted,
It happens to the old, the young, the lizards and other animals.

I don't view death as a gift. Rather a fate that, no matter how hard I try, will come...and pass, then hopefully more adventures await!

This world isn't as ugly as you think.
0 Replies
 
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 05:03 pm
@EnvyTheRetarted,
I have no answers, only my thoughts. Allow me to share them...

EnvyTheRetarted;126553 wrote:
Death. People have feared both the word and the concept since the birth of cognitive thought. But I present a simple question; why? Perhaps it is the uncertainty of what comes after...or what does not.


Fear of the unknown, fear of the pain many believes accompanies death, dread of a condition one can't conceive, loathing for what appears to be a substanceless state of horror. Fear, probably...

EnvyTheRetarted;126553 wrote:
So is this why we cling on to this, for lack of a more suitable word, ugly existence? This world is so full hate and greed, exploitation and war. This is what we have chosen to cling on to? We chose this because of our petty fear of death?


To fear, avoid and loathe death isn't necessarily the same as loving life. I've known those who despise both conditions (hating one and avoiding the other). Besides, the will to live - to survive - may endure despite our condition. Many believe in a survival instinct; that drive that wants to *live* and whose desire to do so is totally aside from how much or how little they enjoy.

EnvyTheRetarted;126553 wrote:
This world is nasty, brutish and cruel.... If I believed in hell, immortality on this plane of existence would most undoubtedly be such.


As you see it, right now; in the mood you're in and in light of what you're considering. But not all people are in the same mental disposition you were when you wrote this, so saying we should all welcome it doesn't follow.

Further, if (as you said) death is a condition we simply don't know, why would we forsake what we do have some experience with for another wherein all we hold is ignorance? If I don't know how_something_feels, what precisely might motivate me to forsake what I do for a condition in which I can't conceive? There'd be no basis, no reason... no motivation.

I think it's natural to fear death; we don't know how it's going to feel yet as the living beholds the bodily condition of those who've past, it certainly doesn't *look* pleasurable. Is this not a forgivable fear? How about continuance: Regardless of how happy I am or not, perhaps I place value in my own consciousness. If my understanding suggests that consciousness may not continue, is it not therefore reasonable to apprehend some fear? I think so...

I will say this: I have felt extreme anger, resentment, mirth and indignation at aspects of this world - likely the same one you spoke about. I've seen and felt abject brutality, insufferable ignominy and loss. As much as I can steadfastly tell you these are real and painful, I can also tell you that these also pass. Yes, there is good - there is compassion, caring, intelligence and love. Rare though they may be, they're also real and can be found occasionally in the eyes hearts of your fellow humans.

In any case, I wouldn't despair so much; it's an emotional quicksand. The more one wallows it, the deeper it's likely to suck you down. And I wouldn't - either - be quite so praiseworthy of a condition you so accurately termed "uncertain".

Good luck!
Zetherin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 05:13 pm
@EnvyTheRetarted,
EnvyTheRetarted;126553 wrote:
Death. People have feared both the word and the concept since the birth of cognitive thought. But I present a simple question; why? Perhaps it is the uncertainty of what comes after...or what does not.
So is this why we cling on to this, for lack of a more suitable word, ugly existence? This world is so full hate and greed, exploitation and war. This is what we have chosen to cling on to? We chose this because of our petty fear of death?
The simple fact of this matter is that we know what this life is like and has to offer. This world is nasty, brutish and cruel. What we do not know is death. We do not know any facet of what is to come. For death is just a word to describe a phase of existence. The only real thing we know concerning death is that our physical state ceases to be.
In closing, we should welcome death. We should embrace it like a gift. Do not misunderstand me. I am not saying we should all go "Jonestown" and drink the koolaid, but we should not shun such a gift as death. If I believed in hell, immortality on this plane of existence would most undoubtedly be such.


It sounds like you're not enjoying your life too much.

Maybe that's what we should actually delve into.
mister kitten
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 05:32 pm
@Khethil,
Khethil;126563 wrote:

Further, if (as you said) death is a condition we simply don't know, why would we forsake what we do have some experience with for another wherein all we hold is ignorance? If I don't know how_something_feels, what precisely might motivate me to forsake what I do for a condition in which I can't conceive? There'd be no basis, no reason... no motivation.



Curiosity killed the cat!
EnvyTheRetarted
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 05:54 pm
@Zetherin,
These replies are all true...for the most part. The world IS ugly. Of course, love, intelligence, caring and compassion exsist. I have experienced these to quite the extent. However, the opposite of these overshadows by a great deal. This is, of course, only an opinion. It is true that my disposition plays a vital role in what I write, but I also take from those great writers before me. Many of the greatest philosophers and writers throughout history have seen the world in the same way.
So, although many people may not see eye-to-eye with my opinion on death, I still find it a valid point. Yes, it is a very morbid one, but that does not take away from it's validity. Death is a gift from a life full of pain and suffering. And between the pain and suffering, there is a bit of love and compassion. For the majority, we suffer day to day. We find every escape we can, hence alcohol, drugs, entertainment of any kind to distract.
Then again, this just one man's opinion. And yes, perhaps a bitter one.

---------- Post added 02-09-2010 at 05:56 PM ----------

mister kitten;126574 wrote:
Curiosity killed the cat!

My point exactly! Why not embrace what we do not know? Why fear it? Why be content with what we have some understanding of?
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 06:09 pm
@mister kitten,
mister kitten;126574 wrote:
Curiosity killed the cat!



http://www.catfacts.org/cat-mouth-full.jpg

Pfft! Reow!
mister kitten
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 06:21 pm
@EnvyTheRetarted,
EnvyTheRetarted;126580 wrote:
Why not embrace what we do not know? Why fear it? Why be content with what we have some understanding of?


Death will come whether we want it to or not. So why don't we embrace what we have and then deal with death when death comes.

Can we value life while having no fear of death?
0 Replies
 
EnvyTheRetarted
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 06:32 pm
@Khethil,
Khethil;126583 wrote:
http://www.catfacts.org/cat-mouth-full.jpg

Pfft! Reow!

I understand your hesitance friend. That is no need for condescending tones.

---------- Post added 02-09-2010 at 06:58 PM ----------

mister kitten;126584 wrote:
Death will come whether we want it to or not. So why don't we embrace what we have and then deal with death when death comes.

Can we value life while having no fear of death?

I support embracing the life we have, regardless of what it may be. And yes, at the same time, have no fear of death. It is possible and, in my opinion, logical.
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 07:22 pm
@EnvyTheRetarted,
EnvyTheRetarted;126588 wrote:
I understand your hesitance friend. That is no need for condescending tones.


Not condescending at all friend, just light-hearted. Smile
melonkali
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 08:58 pm
@EnvyTheRetarted,
Remember the old adage "that which doesn't kill you makes you strong"? Boy, didn't that turn out to be a crock?!

I think the truth of the matter, for many of us, is closer to the opinion of U.S. military psychiatrists in WWII, that a soldier can experience, on the average, 240 firefights before he cracks up. There are quite a few of us these days, especially in the U.S., I think, nearing or even past their "240" mark.

Apart from the real need to complete a little unfinished business, you know what gives me a reason to wake up yet one more morning? I recall that, for all practical purposes, I'm now an "expendable" person. Though I have no idea how or why, I wonder if a time or situation might occur, while I'm still functional, when an "expendable person" might prove useful? Perhaps I'll end up going out in some "blaze of glory"! Talk about delusional...

For the present, I just do what absolutely has to be done, then spend quite a bit of time in escapism: those books I never got around to reading, research into subjects of interest I never had time for, writing, music, message boards and such. I've deliberately put up shields and screens because, frankly, I don't think I can handle many more "hits". I'm saving my remaining mental energy for critical situations only.

Or, maybe I'm just afraid of death? Who knows?

rebecca
I am question
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 09:26 pm
@EnvyTheRetarted,
Can we value life without the fear of death? Good question thats a thinker. Everybody looks at life different so is there an absolute answer?
Zetherin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 10:14 pm
@I am question,
I am question;126608 wrote:
Can we value life without the fear of death? Good question thats a thinker. Everybody looks at life different so is there an absolute answer?


I value things all the time without fearing death, don't you? Also, what is an "absolute answer"?
0 Replies
 
EnvyTheRetarted
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 11:25 pm
@melonkali,
melonkali;126605 wrote:
Remember the old adage "that which doesn't kill you makes you strong"? Boy, didn't that turn out to be a crock?!

I think the truth of the matter, for many of us, is closer to the opinion of U.S. military psychiatrists in WWII, that a soldier can experience, on the average, 240 firefights before he cracks up. There are quite a few of us these days, especially in the U.S., I think, nearing or even past their "240" mark.

Apart from the real need to complete a little unfinished business, you know what gives me a reason to wake up yet one more morning? I recall that, for all practical purposes, I'm now an "expendable" person. Though I have no idea how or why, I wonder if a time or situation might occur, while I'm still functional, when an "expendable person" might prove useful? Perhaps I'll end up going out in some "blaze of glory"! Talk about delusional...

For the present, I just do what absolutely has to be done, then spend quite a bit of time in escapism: those books I never got around to reading, research into subjects of interest I never had time for, writing, music, message boards and such. I've deliberately put up shields and screens because, frankly, I don't think I can handle many more "hits". I'm saving my remaining mental energy for critical situations only.

Or, maybe I'm just afraid of death? Who knows?

rebecca

Well the military does play vital role in my thought process. The Marine Corps taught me not to fear death but to invite it. I suppose that plays a major role in my opinion.
I am question
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Feb, 2010 10:56 pm
@EnvyTheRetarted,
1+1=2 thats an absolute answer. Do we need to question words here, are we going to argue semantics?
EnvyTheRetarted
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Feb, 2010 01:22 pm
@I am question,
I am question;126922 wrote:
1+1=2 thats an absolute answer. Do we need to question words here, are we going to argue semantics?

Semantics are very important, friend.
0 Replies
 
Reconstructo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Feb, 2010 01:33 pm
@EnvyTheRetarted,
EnvyTheRetarted;126553 wrote:
Death. People have feared both the word and the concept since the birth of cognitive thought. But I present a simple question; why? Perhaps it is the uncertainty of what comes after...or what does not.
So is this why we cling on to this, for lack of a more suitable word, ugly existence? This world is so full hate and greed, exploitation and war. This is what we have chosen to cling on to? We chose this because of our petty fear of death?
The simple fact of this matter is that we know what this life is like and has to offer. This world is nasty, brutish and cruel. What we do not know is death. We do not know any facet of what is to come. For death is just a word to describe a phase of existence. The only real thing we know concerning death is that our physical state ceases to be.
In closing, we should welcome death. We should embrace it like a gift. Do not misunderstand me. I am not saying we should all go "Jonestown" and drink the koolaid, but we should not shun such a gift as death. If I believed in hell, immortality on this plane of existence would most undoubtedly be such.


Good points. Many expect death to be "sleep":annihilation of all consciousness. Nothing to fear if that's the case. I'd say the fear of death for these people is the same as their attachment to life. True, the world is not short on the ugly, but the beautiful lies in that same pile.

I agree that we should welcome death, but I trust it will patiently wait for us while we make the most of our brief span.
EnvyTheRetarted
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2010 06:07 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;127097 wrote:
Good points. Many expect death to be "sleep":annihilation of all consciousness. Nothing to fear if that's the case. I'd say the fear of death for these people is the same as their attachment to life. True, the world is not short on the ugly, but the beautiful lies in that same pile.

I agree that we should welcome death, but I trust it will patiently wait for us while we make the most of our brief span.

That was very well put. And I understand that the beauty lies in the same pile as the ugly. I see beauty everywhere. I think nature is an amazing spectical. But the ugly I speak of is not offset by a beautiful sunset or the wind making plants dance. I just now realized, while writing this, that I, in fact, fear life. I still function, but I really do fear what this life will bring...to me...to my friends...to the next generation.
My small empiphany aside, thank you Reconstructo. And thanks to all you other fine thinkers for your input. I hope to keep this dialogue going, but I will be posting something new later today. I look forward to hearing from you all.
mister kitten
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2010 06:50 pm
@EnvyTheRetarted,
EnvyTheRetarted;127423 wrote:
That was very well put. And I understand that the beauty lies in the same pile as the ugly. I see beauty everywhere. I think nature is an amazing spectical. But the ugly I speak of is not offset by a beautiful sunset or the wind making plants dance. I just now realized, while writing this, that I, in fact, fear life. I still function, but I really do fear what this life will bring...to me...to my friends...to the next generation.
My small empiphany aside, thank you Reconstructo. And thanks to all you other fine thinkers for your input. I hope to keep this dialogue going, but I will be posting something new later today. I look forward to hearing from you all.


What is beautiful then? Is the beauty worth living for?
EnvyTheRetarted
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 06:18 pm
@mister kitten,
mister kitten;127697 wrote:
What is beautiful then? Is the beauty worth living for?

Beauty is peace. Beauty is serenity...knowing that I will have peace. That beauty is worth living. However, that beauty is not realistic. Just my opinion.
0 Replies
 
 

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