9 year old suicide

You never asked. Instead, you preferred to quibble with me in a rather strange, and clearly unproductive way.

Stop being Socrates.

I mean that whether good or bad things happen to us will largely determine the kind of life we are going to live. And what happens to us is largely not in our control. And no amount of analysis or self-examination (whatever those are) will matter.

I do not understand why people would be surprised that a nine year old might not feel that life is not worth living any more than someone of a different age.

I do believe that suicide remains one of the most selfish act one can commit.

Ayn Rand and her followers would have us believe that selfishness is a virtue.

I think a 9 year old killing himself is a good representation of suicide as a whole. Selfish,short-sighted, and always looking for an escape. Although it seems insensitive for me to say this, I think we just need to realize that those things are apart of deciding to end your life.

I think a 9 year old killing himself is a good representation of suicide as a whole. Selfish,short-sighted, and always looking for an escape. Although it seems insensitive for me to say this, I think we just need to realize that those things are apart of deciding to end your life.

It is funny that people who stay alive because they want to, call people "selfish" who kill themselves because they want to. (It is like those who have children because they want children calling childless couples selfish for not having children because they don't want to have children.)

And it is absurd to call a solution to all of life's problems forever a "short-sighted" solution. The 9 year old could not possibly have come up with any other solution to his problems that would have been so complete and long lasting.

I don't think it is like that. Those people are wrong because the others not having children doesn't affect them.

But committing suicide does have a huge effect on the people who care about that person.

It's said to be short sighted because people can recover and live a happy life in the future. But they can't always see that.

Whether people have children or not affects the population, and that does affect you. Since we have more than enough people in the world now, the reality is that having children because you want them is more selfish than not having them because you don't want them. But this is going off topic.

Pretty much everything you do has an effect on those who care about you. But that does not mean that others have a right to run your life for you. You are (or should be) free to ruin your life if you want to do so. Many people do ruin their lives in various ways, and yet usually these things are not thought of in the same way as suicide. If I were to decide to do basically nothing but drink too much for the rest of my life, how do you think that would affect those who care about me? Do you seriously believe that that would be better for them than killing myself quickly? Do you believe that I should have the right to decide for myself if I will do basically nothing but drink or not?

And they can also lead long, miserable lives as well, though those who argue against suicide typically can't see that obvious fact. Many people do live long horrible lives, and they could have avoided living long horrible lives by cutting their lives short. Really, suicide is a better choice than many choices people have made, so it is absurd to condemn it more than those worse choices.

It is funny that people who stay alive because they want to, call people "selfish" who kill themselves because they want to. (It is like those who have children because they want children calling childless couples selfish for not having children because they don't want to have children.)

I don't entirely understand the "it's selfish" angle, now that I think about it.

In some cases people are justified in committing suicide. I don't entirely understand the "it's selfish" angle, now that I think about it. If people are in a state of mind where they are willing to kill themselves, it seems silly to accuse them of deliberately spurning the feelings of others.

Pretty much everything you do has an effect on those who care about you. But that does not mean that others have a right to run your life for you. You are (or should be) free to ruin your life if you want to do so. Many people do ruin their lives in various ways, and yet usually these things are not thought of in the same way as suicide. If I were to decide to do basically nothing but drink too much for the rest of my life, how do you think that would affect those who care about me? Do you seriously believe that that would be better for them than killing myself quickly? Do you believe that I should have the right to decide for myself if I will do basically nothing but drink or not?

...

Sure, most people have the freedom to **** up their lives if they want to. So what? This doesn't mean that it isn't inconsiderate or immature to do so at times. Sometimes you have responsibility, Pyrrho.

Yes, but suicide is not a special case of this. The arguments that people typically use against suicide are so far reaching that usually the person making the argument would never accept the full consequences of their own pretended position. And that means that they are wrong, no matter what the truth of the matter is, because they are being inconsistent in the application of the principles that they put forth.

For an analysis of the typical arguments, see:

Online Library of Liberty - ESSAY IX: OF SUICIDE - Essays Moral, Political, Literary (LF ed.)

First, you are assuming that to consider suicide, you must be irrational. This I don't think is correct. There are cirumstances of suffering where I personally would commit suicide, and I am considering this rationally (as far as I can tell). And, I think, if I had committed suicide because of my suffering, in these certain cirumstances, I would be being rational. And, as you say, justified.

In regards to the selfishness of suicide, yes, I believe some suicide cases are selfish. If I were a single father of three small children, and I one night got depressed and committed suicide, I think that that would be a selfish act. My depression does place me in an altered state, sure, but I should, at this point in my children's lives, place their wants and needs before mine. I believe I should be strong and mature enough to not abandon my family simply because of a fleeting feeling. Don't you?

There was recently a story on CNN about a 9 year old boy who hung himself in the bathroom of his elementary school because his family was dysfunctional. My question is whether you think this is an isolated incident or that family life has become so meaningless and so undervalued in today's society that children under the age of 10 feel the need to take their own life? Unfortunately I don't have the article, but I'll try and do some digging and find it.