Definition of Reality

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;131136 wrote:

Ay, there's the rub! The same question arises in Congress.

So in fact I always know X...so, how can I differentiate myself from X ?

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil. Albuquerque;131137 wrote:

So in fact I always know X...so, how can I differentiate myself from X ?

Sometimes I just have to stand in awe.

1 Reply

@Zetherin,

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

kennethamy;130916 wrote:

So, if one view is that Earth is flat, and another view is that Earth is a sphere, it is "vulgar science" to think that there is only one reality, either flat earth or spherical earth, but it is refined science to think that earth is both flat and spherical? Is that what is takes to be refined? Believe contradictions.

Talk about "contradictions!" You are using the word "view" here to mean "opinion." Of course you know that in the "view" . . . er, "opinion" of the most "refined" scientists the Earth is neither flat nor spherical. But from where I sit, I would have to say that in my view the Earth is "hilly," and when I go outside for a closer look at it in my driveway, I would say it is "rutty." [I hope that's not too "vulgar" a word for the Forum.]

By the way, in the "view" . . . er, "opinion" of "super-refined" scientists, the path of the moon, when "viewed" from the sun is more like a . . . [elipsis] crazy corkscrew, as is that of the earth, when "viewed" from the center of the galaxy!

WARNING! Too much "refined" science can be bad for your health!
　
:flowers:

0 Replies

@longknowledge,

longknowledge;130902 wrote:

The view is the reality.

Whose reality though? If you and I are on a train, and you can only look out through the left side window, and I can only look out through the right side window, are we seeing different realities?

This is all starting to sound like a conversation I had with my dad once about the weather. I live 800 miles away from my parents, and it was snowing heavily in my town. My dad kept insisting that I must be kidding when I told him it was snowing because the Weather Channel showed that it was only partly cloudy where I was.

0 Replies

@TickTockMan,

TickTockMan;131063 wrote:

Yes. It is a relay race of Solipsists. Apparently there are more of them than they thought.

How's it going, Tick? Glad you stopped in. I must earnestly ask you: who is playing the solipsist here? I'm a representational realist myself. As far as I can tell there are no solipsists in the mix. I think we are all representational realists debating the nature of representation. But that's just my representation? But it's the only Real I've got. Until your reply adds discourse to my representation machine.

---------- Post added 02-22-2010 at 07:00 PM ----------

Fil. Albuquerque;131146 wrote:

Perhaps it is often just a 5-dimensional game of scrabble that pretends to be important. But that's just one more move in the game of 5-dimensional scrabble.

1 Reply

@Reconstructo,

TickTockMan;131063 wrote:

Yes. It is a relay race of Solipsists. Apparently there are more of them than they thought.

Reconstructo;131209 wrote:

How's it going, Tick? Glad you stopped in. I must earnestly ask you: who is playing the solipsist here? I'm a representational realist myself. As far as I can tell there are no solipsists in the mix.

More importantly, can one logically pluralize Solipsists?

I was struck more by the absurd image of a relay race of Solipsists than by the accuracy of my term. Who do they think they would be handing the baton off to?

But that aside, in the last 60 some pages of this thread I have smelled, I think, a hint of some strange Cartesian/Solipsistic hybridization. Not being as philosophically well-read or nearly as clever as most of the folks here, my terminology as well as my understanding of the situation is likely not all it could be, but when someone starts suggesting that mind-dependent reality is a likely scenario I start looking for the tubes leading to the brain in the vat.

I used to have a representation machine, but the handle broke off.

4 Replies

@TickTockMan,

TickTockMan;131225 wrote:

More importantly, can one logically pluralize Solipsists?.

You can, actually. Consciousness is colective. You might recall stories of children who grew up in the wild looked after by dogs. They behave like dogs, move around on all fours, growl and snarl at humans, and so on. There are quite a few cases like this.

This shows that consciousness itself is deeply imprinted and conditioned by your contact with other minds. Of course, normally, we are thoroughly socialised as children and grow up in a world of 'social convention'. We take our queues as to how to behave, what to think, and what we believe is true, from those around us.

This is one of the reasons why in traditional societies, 'the recluse' is the archetype for the individual who wishes to seek the higher truths of life. The recluse, anchorite, monk or 'sannyasin' renounces the world, which is really renouncing this interconnected web of social relations.

In all of this, we should recall that reality has much greater depth than just the bare physical substructure of experience. (earth, stars, and so on.) The human reality is the relationships we have with others, what we think about things, and so on. Perhaps you can equate the physical substructure with the deepest layer of the unconsious. It is there, but most of the interesting material takes place on the higher levels.

0 Replies

@TickTockMan,

TickTockMan;131225 wrote:

I used to have a representation machine, but the handle broke off.

I enjoyed your post. I've got a quip to add to your quip. It reminds me of an epistle on the impossibility of communication. I say this because for me our language is our dominant culture-specific form of representation. (Sensation seems to be universal or universal enough.)

I would say that our chat right now is an example of the representation of reality. We are talking about that part of reality which includes this same sort of conversation about "reality." (In quotes, because this thread is about defining it...)

1 Reply

@TickTockMan,

TickTockMan;131225 wrote:

More importantly, can one logically pluralize Solipsists?

I was struck more by the absurd image of a relay race of Solipsists than by the accuracy of my term. Who do they think they would be handing the baton off to?

But that aside, in the last 60 some pages of this thread I have smelled, I think, a hint of some strange Cartesian/Solipsistic hybridization. Not being as philosophically well-read or nearly as clever as most of the folks here, my terminology as well as my understanding of the situation is likely not all it could be, but when someone starts suggesting that mind-dependent reality is a likely scenario I start looking for the tubes leading to the brain in the vat.

I used to have a representation machine, but the handle broke off.

I think the problem is we are each sharing a part of our journey. Some of us are sharing the present path we're on, some are sharing the road they took, and some are sharing the roadblocks they've found along the way. So it is easy to mistake what a person is trying to say because it can take a fair number of posts to get from the stream to the ocean.

0 Replies

@housby,

spot on Scottydamion. A really important point and one not to loose sight of. That is the great thing about this place.

0 Replies

@TickTockMan,

TickTockMan;131225 wrote:

More importantly, can one logically pluralize Solipsists?

.

Well, Mrs. Christine Ladd-Franklin highly amused Bertrand Russell when she wrote to him, "I am a solipsist, and I simply do not understand why everyone else isn't a solipsist too".

1 Reply

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;131245 wrote:

Well, Mrs. Christine Ladd-Franklin highly amused Bertrand Russell when she wrote to him, "I am a solipsist, and I simply do not understand why everyone else isn't a solipsist too".

That reminds me of a note I saw on my college bulletin board ages ago.

Quote:

There will be a meeting of the Soloptists Club at 7PM on Tuesday. Everyone is welcome.

:flowers:

0 Replies

@housby,

I don't suppose she is related to the lady who said it was turtles all the way down?

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@housby,

housby;121176 wrote:

Invitation to Jackofalltardes, Prothero, Jeeprs et al (plus anyone who wants to join in) on the slightly off thread (previously) discussion on the nature of reality and how we can define it without reference to direct experince. Originally (for the uninitiated) posted on the "What is matter in the quantum age" thread. Posted in this section but it could fit in on many different sections. My original question was, "How do we know the reality of anything without reference to the senses which are themselves workings of the mind, especially in light of quantum physics seemingly saying that subatomic particles seem to pass no test of existence themselves?" Anyone not previously involved in the discussion should perhaps look at the above thread.

Don't really understand the nature of the question, I may feel inclined to ask, what isn't real? If you had your ass kicked, that might answer your question, and not waste time on unessesary nassle gazing?

1 Reply

@HexHammer,

HexHammer;131290 wrote:

Don't really understand the nature of the question, I may feel inclined to ask, what isn't real? If you had your ass kicked, that might answer your question, and not waste time on unessesary nassle gazing?

It's exactly because Time promises to thoroughly wreck our azzes that some begin their navel gazing in the first place. After all, that's where the trouble began. Philosophy as junk food for your mind?

0 Replies

@housby,

or you could always join a Mechanics forum, or Practical Persons forum, or some forum other than one described in large typeface PHILOSOPHY FORUM

1 Reply

@housby,

"Smells like Gerrymandering!" Uncle Umo warned.

0 Replies

@jeeprs,

But seriously, folks, let's get back to the question at hand.

What is Reality?

According to Ortega, each of us are involved in our own "reality," namely, our own individual lives. But each our lives consist of an "I" and "My Circumstance." Both are equally "real" within the "radical reality" that is "My Life." This is a position known as "metaphysical pluralism," and was originally put forth by William James in the Hibbert lectures given in 1909 entitled "A Pluralistic Universe," and subsequently developed by Ortega into a "Philosophy of Human Life." (See A Pragmatist Philosophy of Life in Ortega y Gasset, by John T. Graham (University of Missouri Press, 1994)

And part of "My Circumstance" is other entities that appear, by their behavior, to be in the same situation as we are. So while we cannot be within another person's "reality" or "life" in the same sense that they are, we do encounter them in the other part of our "reality" which is Our Circumstance. While they are "living" their lives, they generate phenomena that we can sense and relate to. Actually, Ortega posits that the sense of "I" only develops after an awareness of "You" and even of "Us." (See his sociological treatise, Man and People.)

From our parents and siblings, from our teachers, and from the various media, we gradually learn a "consensus reality" that most of us can agree on and talk about, but we never can bridge the gap and be or "live" in another person's "reality" or "life" the way that they "live" in it, or the way we "live" in ours.

Like it or not, this is the "reality" of our lives.

:flowers:

1 Reply

@longknowledge,

longknowledge;131323 wrote:

And part of "My Circumstance" is other entities that appear, by their behavior, to be in the same situation as we are. So while we cannot be within another person's "reality" or "life" in the same sense that they are, we do encounter them in the other part of our "reality" which is Our Circumstance. While they are "living" their lives, they generate phenomena that we can sense and relate to. Actually, Ortega posits that the sense of "I" only develops after an awareness of "You" and even of "Us."

That's a nice way to describe it. I find that view persuasive/true. Self and others (I, You, and Us) reminds me of Venn Diagrams, but maybe 3D Venn diagrams...

1 Reply

Definition of Reality

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