@Fido,
Fido;114425 wrote:My Freedom is self control, and my happiness is the knowledge to make reasoned decisions...
So your freedom is in part at least imprisonment, is restraint?
It is your 'self' that gives you your freedom?
If so is not the concept of self yet another definition, another destinction, another abreviation another capture of that which is closeted that which is confined that which is controled that subject (me/you) over disobedience? over what some might also call freedom to not be accountable?
---------- Post added 12-27-2009 at 04:14 AM ----------
prothero;114432 wrote:In its most basic sense the notion of "freedom" (and for that matter creativity) is a rejection of "hard determinism".
It is the notion that there were alternative possiblities for the past and there are alternative possiblities in the future. Ordered possibilites is the fundamental inherent law of reality and nature, not precise specific predictability.
For humans it is the ability to have done or to do "otherwise".
I see what you mean (sort of) about freedom being a rejection of determinism at least, because it is something (in pure form, ideal) without need for a price cause to be paid effect.
For it to mean anything could mean it means nothing.
Because you have atached price to something that is 'supposed' to be free especially for all.
I think you are saying it is an ideal chioce without the choosing, we know better ourselves and the universe be seeing and believing and knowing not everything must be fought, and some things there shoul dbe no fight in the first or last place.
[You] 'Ordered possibilities is the fundamental inherent law of reality and nature, not precise specific predictability'
Please expand.
For humans it is as much availiability which is ability but can still be denied even granted.
---------- Post added 12-27-2009 at 04:21 AM ----------
kennethamy;114447 wrote:But then, the question is, what does it mean to have the ability fo do otherwise?
It gives freedom substance it makes it worth something without necessarliy attaching cost.
---------- Post added 12-27-2009 at 04:28 AM ----------
prothero;114454 wrote:By "hard determinism" I mean something approaching Laplaces demon. There is one and only one possible sequence of events. The laws of nature are not probablistic but are fixed and in theory all events could be precisely predicted given sufficient knowledge and computing power.
If there is no freedom in nature then it would seem human "free will" could be nothing but an "illusion". On the other hand if nature is inherently unpredictable even to a small degree "free will" and "freedom" have a chance (intended).
The chance precede the impossibility.
Only one chance though through nature?
Does not the predictability proove somethings have, are with, existence freedom over unexisted imprisonment? rather than all is deviod/defunct if without? which you did not say.
Unpredictable can be used the same way, that because it cannot be measured means it does not (as yet) exist? Or am i just filling air?
---------- Post added 12-27-2009 at 04:33 AM ----------
Fil. Albuquerque;114524 wrote:
But are things exactly as they 'could' be, are we missing the point if we dont fight for it?