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If you were a bookie... Polls and bets on the 2004 elections

 
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 08:50 am
Inspired!

Deadline is today and I haven't done nearly as much as I'd hoped. But great to know that so much has gotten done.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 09:38 am
<looks around for Timber>

Still think all indicators are pointing towards Bush, Timber?

Nimh, I can't wait to see your wrap-up of this week.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 10:15 am
Cycloptichorn
Don't act republican and gloat. There will be time for that in November. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 10:44 am
Sorry. Sad

You are of course right. There's a long time to go, here's hoping Kerry keeps his momentum going!

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 10:47 am
Here's hoping.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 12:24 pm
New Zogby poll, Oct 1-3 (post-debate), compared to two weeks ago:

2-way race:
Bush 46 (-1)
Kerry 45 (+1)

6-way race:
Bush 46 (no ch.)
Kerry 43 (no ch.)
Nader 2,4 (+1)
Badnarik 0,6 (-1)
Peroutka 0,2
Cobb 0,0

Bush job approval:
Excellent/good 49% (+2)
Fair/poor 52% (no ch.)

President Bush "deserves to be re-elected" 46% (-1)
It is "time for someone new" 49% (-1)

Quote:
More than half of respondents (59%) say that John Kerry won the first presidential debate last Thursday, while one in five (21%) favor President Bush's performance.

But - people liked Kerry better in the debate, but actually agreed more with Bush - which is what I mentioned being afraid about, when I wrote that Kerry seemed to be eloquently defending what must be an impopular position.

Quote:
Fifty-seven percent believe that Kerry looked most presidential, while nearly half (49%) agree with Bush on issues.

Basically, the poll has the race an exact tie, since it has a high 8% of undecideds, "because we don't push them until later. Five points of these are hard undecideds, two-points use to be with Kerry, and one point with Bush."

John Zogby wrote:
The post convention bounce for Bush is over and his biggest hurdle is among undecided voters who give him a 31 percent positive job performance rating and a 69 percent negative rating. Only 13 percent of undecided voters feel that the president deserves re-election (his lowest yet) while 37 percent feel it is time for someone new.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 01:05 pm
Bush job ratings graphs updated for the second half of September:

Approval and disapproval rates recorded by the respective pollsters
http://home.wanadoo.nl/anepiphany/images/bush-job-ratings_2001-2004.gif

Average approval and disapproval rates based on the above:
http://home.wanadoo.nl/anepiphany/images/bush-job-ratings_2001-2004_average.gif
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 01:16 pm
'ntag nimh.

i really like that so many of your graphs are by complex, not individual polls.

better overview.

the economy has really hurt me, but i'm willing to eat boiled newspaper for another month if it means getting bush out of office.

absolutely the worst president of my lifetime... Shocked
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 01:18 pm
Updated graphs on the horse race:

http://home.wanadoo.nl/anepiphany/images/bush-kerry_oct1.gif


Note: regarding the results drawn in for the past week (week 40), those of GWU, LA Times, Democracy Corps (all up for Bush) and Rasmussen weekly (no change) date from before the debate; those of Zogby, Gallup and Newsweek (all down for Bush) date from after the debate.

This is what the resulting average looks like:


http://home.wanadoo.nl/anepiphany/images/bush-kerry_average_oct1.gif

Methodological note: I hadn't thus far ever included Rasmussen in these graphs, since they do a daily tracking, and how do you process a daily tracking poll into ten-day updates? Calculate averages yourself? Unh-huh.

But since I have shortened the intervals in the graph to week-long rather than ten-day periods in this closing stage of the race, and since Rasmussen does provide week-by-week polls as well, I decided to include those, at least, after all.

It would have been rather odd to start including Rasmussen only from the moment that I changed to weekly intervals, though, especially since that happened to coincide with the post-RNC Bush bounce. That could have looked just a little partisan, since the Rasmussen numbers are so stable, and thus served to dampen that bounce in the average numbers. So I went out on a limp and included them, after all, all the way back to January - just taking the average of two of those week-by-week numbers whenever the ten-day interval forced me to. Not really scientific, but what do you do. That explains, in any case, why the past (average) numbers now may look slightly different from what you might remember.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 01:21 pm
Would love to see where it goes with all post-debate polls.

Cheney-Edwards tomorrow!

(Worrying a bit that THAT will be the one where expectations are too high -- the pre-Bush/Kerry debate expectation was actually that Bush would win. I think everyone expects Edwards to win.)
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 01:28 pm
One of the big criticisms of Lieberman was that he didn't attack Cheney enough in 2000.

Somehow I doubt this will be a problem. Though Cheney is a good speaker (much better than Bush) Edwards might be the best out of all four of them - he has Kerry's ability to debate well with a large dose of Bush's easy-going style.

Cheney will have some hard-hitting points for his side, I do not doubt, but he just isn't well-liked, even amongst Bush supporters (many of whom wouldn't have had a problem with his being replaced by another VP at all.)

Should be a fun debate to watch!

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 06:14 pm
Damn, what the f**k? Polls flowing in right now, it seems ... and they keep on breaking apart in those who show a large shift (like Gallup and Newsweek did before) and those who show little change (like Zogby and some of the post-debate flash polls).

CBS/NYT goes in the former category, Pew and ABC/WaPo in the latter.

Dont have a lot of time but here's some basics and quotes:

Pew, compared to three weeks ago:

Likely voters:
Bush 49 (+2)
Kerry 44 (-2)
Nader 2 (+1)


Registered voters:
Bush 48 (no ch.)
Kerry 41 (+1)
Nader 2 (no ch.)

CBS/NYT, compared to last week:

Same result for both likely and registered voter samples:
Bush 47% (-2)
Kerry 47% (+6)


In the 3-way race, Nader gets 2% but Bush's and Kerry's numbers stay the same.

Quote:
The debate did not markedly alter perceptions of Bush one way or another, leaving him with an advantage over Kerry on such personal characteristics as strong leadership and likeability. But [..] four weeks from Election Day, the presidential race is a dead heat, with Bush having given up the gains he enjoyed for the last month following the Republican convention in New York City, the poll found. [..]

Bush's job approval rating remained just below 50 percent, putting him close to what has traditionally been a danger zone for an incumbent seeking reelection. His approval ratings for his handling of foreign policy, Iraq and the economy were even lower, and a majority of respondents said the country was on the wrong track.

The poll suggested that Kerry's strategy of hammering away at his rival's handling of the war might be resonating among voters.

Asked what kind of job Bush had done in anticipating what would happen in Iraq as a result of the war, 59 percent said he had done a poor job and 34 percent said a good job.

A slight majority, 52 percent, said the United States had been too quick to go to war in Iraq, compared with 37 percent who said the timing was about right.

But Bush's strategy of portraying Kerry as an unprincipled flip-flopper appears to have stuck in the national consciousness.

Sixty percent of registered voters said the Democrat tells people what they want to hear, about the same level as throughout the spring and summer.

Kerry did show strong gains in several measures of his leadership.

Forty-one percent of registered voters said they had confidence in his ability to deal wisely with an international crisis, up from 32 percent before the debate.

Thirty-nine percent of registered voters said they had a lot of confidence that Kerry would make the right decisions when it comes to protecting against a terrorist attack, up 13 percentage points from before the debate Thursday in Coral Gables, Florida.

But on both scores, Kerry remained behind the president.

Fifty one percent of voters said they had confidence in Bush's ability to deal with an international crisis, unchanged from before the debate.


ABC/WaPo, compared to last week:

Likely voters:
Bush 51% (no ch.)
Kerry 46% (+1)
Nader 1% (no ch.)


Registered voters:
Bush 50% (-1)
Kerry 45% (+1)
Nader 2% (no ch.)

Kerry's favourables went up from 39% to 47% though (which however still falls short compared to Bush's, which remained stable at 53%). Plus, on "who has a clear plan on Iraq", Kerry reduced a whopping 19% negative net balance (56% said he did not) into a -10% one, while Bush's 13% positive margin was reduced to +3%. Ground was recovered, but Bush maintains the edge.

Huge demographic differences. Between men and women, but more so even between married women (58%/38% for Bush) and single women (62%/35% for Kerry). Those who vote on the basis of the economy go to Kerry two-to-one; those who let the issue of terrorism steer their vote go to Bush by a whopping 84%/15%.

Quote:
What's ultimately essential is who votes, and current polling suggest higher-than-usual turnout. Interest is high, and registration drives across the country may be having an effect. Compared to an ABC News/Washington Post poll at this time in 2000, Americans are six points more likely to say they're registered to vote; and registered voters are six points more likely to say they're certain to vote, and 18 points more likely to be following the election very closely.

While registration, interest and voting intention bear watching, horse-race results in this poll are essentially the same with and without new or occasional voters in the sample.


We'll need another two debate wins to actually turn this race around.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Oct, 2004 10:04 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
<looks around for Timber>

Still think all indicators are pointing towards Bush, Timber?


Cycloptichorn


Sure do ... no change in my expectations. Sorry I haven't been around much the last couple days ... been busy.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 03:53 am
sozobe wrote:
Would love to see where it goes with all post-debate polls.

That graph ... that I so painstakingly renewed before they instantly put out three more polls :wink: ... if you would take last week with only the fully-fledged post-debate polls, that's some six polls in all, the average would have been a 1,3% Bush lead, still.

(Edit: if you count the ARG poll below as well, it would be a 1,0% Bush lead.)
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 05:38 am
Just what you wanted to know: a poll update about who the Dutch want to win! Unbelievably, one polling agency is surveying the Dutch people's preference for the US presidential elections about every week now ... not that much changes over time.

The state of October 4, compared to last week:

Kerry 76% (+6)
Bush 15% (-1)

Don't know 9% (-5)

Interestingly, the poll has internals that break down the numbers by supporters of the seven main Dutch parties. Now this is telling. The supporters of every single party, from the far-left Socialists all the way up to the List Pim Fortuyn on the right, in majority want Kerry to win. Absolute majorities, that is, over 50%. Here's the list, from left to right:

Supporters of ..
Socialist Party: Kerry 94%, Bush 2%
Green Left: Kerry 92%, Bush 3%
Labour Party: Kerry 92%, Bush 3%
Democrats '66: Kerry 86%, Bush 12%
Christian-Democrats: Kerry 59%, Bush 25%
PFD (Conservative liberals): Kerry 75%, Bush 16%
List Pim Fortuyn: Kerry 55%, Bush 31%

Interesting ... the Conservative liberals are usually considered to be significantly to the right of the Christian-Democrats, eg on market reforms, nationalism/immigrants, law&order, hawkish foreign policy etc. But apparently they have even less patience for Bush than the Christian-Democrats do. Must be the religion thing.

<looks up> Heh.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 07:12 am
Many of us would be willing to export John Kerry to you if you would take him.

I suppose Republicans here are glad the folks in the Netherlands don't vote in our elections.

The latest polls Nimh cited suggest that Bush's dismal performance in the recent debate didn't diminish his prospects by much. It will be interesting to see if that persists. One interpretation of these results may be that Kerry did well in reducing negative impressions of himself, but so far has failed to turn the net preferences of many voters.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 07:40 am
georgeob1
It of course remains to be seen. However, if Bush does as "well", for Kerry, in the next two debates even the village idiot may not vote for him.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 07:51 am
No, I think Bush will be most resolute in casting that vote for himself, regardless of debate performance.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 08:31 am
I'm quite willing to put some serious money on the outcome of the election if either of you guys is willing to bet.

I believe the collapse of Bush's candidcy, which perhaps you are trying to infer, is an illusion.

Kerry certainly is quicker on his feet and more articulate than Bush. However most people are able to see through the smoke he blows so ably.

Asking Chirac or Schroeder more nicely will not change the political and international strategies of these leaders and the countries they represent. The interests of the U.S. are not perfectly aligned with those of the principal nations of Western Europe - and most American voters understand that.

A coalition without France and Germany is still a coalition. One-on-one negotiations with Kim Jong I does not constitute a coalition strategy. (Does he propose more kiss-ass and bribes by Madeline Allbright?)

Resentment of the West, and America in particular, did not begin with the intervention in Iraq. Its roots go back at least a century, and the first direct attacks on America occurred almost twelve years ago - their significance was just underestimated by the Clinton Administration.

Kerry promises much, but without any detail as to how he will bell the cat. There is enough out there for people to doubt his character and stated purposes, but count on his ambition and vanity.

The Democrats are fairly united on what they don't want or like, but are otherwise without a coherent synthesis of what they do propose and how to forge policy out of the many, often discordant, single issue constituencies that dominate the party. Most voters are able to see and grasp all of that, and Kerry does not appear able to turn that tide.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 09:09 am
New poll by American Research Group. October 2-4, compared to last month. (link)

Likely voters, 2-way:
Bush 46%
Kerry 47%


Registered voters, 2-way:
Bush 45% (-1)
Kerry 48% (no ch.)

Likely voters, 3-way:
Bush 46%
Kerry 46%
Nader 2%

Registered voters, 2-way:
Bush 44% (-1)
Kerry 47% (+1)
Nader 2% (-1)

The poll shows about equal numbers of Republicans and Democrats (8-10%) intending to vote for the other party's candidate, with Independents going to Kerry 46% to 41% (three-way race) or 47% to 43% (two-way race).
0 Replies
 
 

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