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If you were a bookie... Polls and bets on the 2004 elections

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2004 12:06 pm
LOL, a typical Timberland take!

Les' pick up on one or two things ...

timberlandko wrote:
Today's RealClearPolitics average, based on a sample period encompassing 6/21 through 7/7, shows a slight (0.8%) lead for The Incumbent, head-to-head. Both indicators remain well within their established mean deviation over the past 6 weeks or so, leading to the conclusion The Edwards Bump is transient if not illusory.

I'll give you Rasmussen, but you're joking about the RCP one right? I mean, really. The Edwards choice is 1 day old. How do you take the average of polls from over the two weeks before that choice as evidence that the choice did not create a bump? That just doesnt make any sense!

Quote:
It is my perception, as stated before, that The Opposition gas been campaigning vigorously and non-stop since the beginning of the 2000 Primary Races, while The Incumbent has been otherwise occupied. That The Opposition, despite great effort and expense, and the absence of any concerted counter-effort,

Does the "absence of any concerted counter-effort" happen to include an 80-million attack ad campaign against the Dem contender?

Thats more ad money than was spent in an entire election campaign not too long ago ...

Quote:
The present situation, to my mind, is wonderfully, almost eerily, reminiscent of the earlier appearance of Governor Dean's invincibility,

Dean may have seemed "invincible" in the primary race, but surely you're not suggesting the media or even yer average mainstream Democrat back then believed Dean was invincible vis-a-vis Bush? Just this board here should yield enough expressions of apprehension about that ...

For that matter, I haven't seen much of a sense of "invincibility" among Democrats now, either ... well, PDiddie aside <grins>
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2004 12:13 pm
Quote:
Does the "absence of any concerted counter-effort" happen to include an 80-million attack ad campaign against the Dem contender?


Laughing

Quote:
Dean may have seemed "invincible" in the primary race, but surely you're not suggesting the media or even yer average mainstream Democrat back then believed Dean was invincible vis-a-vis Bush?


Laughing Laughing

Quote:
For that matter, I haven't seen much of a sense of "invincibility" among Democrats now, either ... well, PDiddie aside <grins>


Laughing Laughing Laughing
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realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2004 02:35 pm
Thanks, pdiddle, for the correct attribution of the "bucket of spit" quote.
If Sen Edwards could deliver VA, WV, and AR to the dems, as you suggest, that would be 24 electoral votes. I can see NC (with 15) joining. I'm not so sure about LA, TN, KY or SC. Pres Bush is going to have to spend a substantial amount of time and money shoring that region while battling in the midwest.
Nimh is good on the general ebb and flow and Dale is awesome on the state by state electoral vote thing. He does ask for contributions to his "tip jar" which I think he deserves.
For what its worth, I have Kerry at 277 electoral votes and Bush at 261. -johnboy-
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2004 07:59 pm
Bounce? I've seen cows bounce higher.

Quote:
Zogby July 8: Kerry/Edwards up by 2

Kerry-Edwards Pulls In Ahead of Bush-Cheney 48%-46%; No Big Bounce for Kerry; Country Still Evenly Divided in Red and Blue States; Nearly One in Ten Likely Voters Say that "Their Vote is Not Counted Accurately," New Zogby America Poll Reveals


The newly announced Democratic Presidential ticket of Massachusetts Senator John Kerry and former North Carolina Senator John Edwards enters the race with a two point lead over President George W. Bush and Vice-President Dick Cheney (48%-46%), according to a new Zogby America poll. The poll of 1008 likely voters was conducted Tuesday and Wednesday (July 6-7, 2004). Overall results have a margin of sampling error of +/-3.1

In a one on one match-up with the President, Kerry leads by two points (46%-44%), with 7% undecided. Kerry shows no significant bounce here in spite the recent announcement of his vice-presidential running mate.


Quote:
AP/IPSOS: 4 point Bush lead "outside margin of error"
The AP-Ipsos poll found Bush leading Kerry just outside the margin of error, with the president's support at 49 percent, Kerry at 45 percent and independent candidate Ralph Nader at 3 percent. The Bush-Kerry matchup was tied a month ago, when Nader had 6 percent.

The three-day survey began Monday, the day before Kerry tapped Edwards as his running mate, and asked registered voters about the newly minted ticket on Tuesday and Wednesday. Half supported the Republican tandem of Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney while 46 percent backed the Kerry-Edwards ticket,


Maybe it'll come along in a little while.

http://www.dpent.ca/Images/Pig%20350%20gif.GIF
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2004 08:33 pm
Found little bounce at Iowa Electronic Markets, compared to Yesterday

http://www.able2know.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10156/IEM%20Jul8.jpg

But I'm pretty sure that wasn't exactly the bounce some folks were hopin' for Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 05:57 am
Off-topic, this one ... ;-)

timberlandko wrote:
Dunno as I see any "worry" from The Conservative Camp.

Well, some of the more militant conservatives are definitely not in an "invincible" mood ...

(Can you believe this site?)

Quote:
A Long, Hard Slog Indeed
Crush Kerry dot com

Ronald Reagan is dead. William F. Buckley, Jr. has divested his interest in the flagship bulletin of the conservative movement, National Review. Rush Limbaugh, who provided color commentary throughout the right's ascendancy, has suffered legal harassment, drug addiction and a public divorce all in the same year.

Meanwhile, the Democrat nominee for president has just shattered the fundraising record. The top movie at the box office is an obese ignoramus's paranoid fantasy presented as hard evidence. The nation's number one book is the autobiography of a liberal ex-president who every day seems Hell-bent on telling more lies than the previous.

The media's bias, public opinion and even the campaign finance laws appear to favor an energized and ascendant radicalism bent on overturning all the good for which this great nation stands. Liberal columnists even predict a Democrat wipeout in November.

This is conservatism's darkest hour.

[..] So, what will you do? [..] Dedicate the majority of your free time to helping the president directly. Visit your state or local GOP office and ask "what needs doing?" Lick more envelopes, fold more letters, call more voters than the lady sitting next to you. Make a small, medium or large donation to the effort. Stay at headquarters an hour later than yesterday. Sleep comes in November.

You may miss some of your favorite television programs this summer. You'll have to put aside the novel your reading for a while. You will be called a "Nazi." You may even be pushed and shoved by a picketer or two. The struggle at times will seem long, hard and unrewarding.

But night is darkest just before the dawn.

Posted on Thursday, July 01 @ 07:43:15 EDT by admin


Laughing
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 06:18 am
Dales notes that recent state polls have Bush inching up a few points in both Missouri and Iowa, increasing his lead in the one and narrowing Kerry's in the other.

Shocker though is the Maine update. On June 12, already (I think I mentioned it here), the Strategic Marketing Services poll had Kerry's lead down from 13 points to 3, since March. Now Rasmussen follows suit. Just a month ago, it had Kerry leading Bush 54% to 35%, a massive 19-point margin. Now (well, June 30, anyway), Kerry's lead is down to a single point, 46% to 45%.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 08:25 am
The Republicans are trying to portray Edwards as an ultra-liberal, who compares unfavourably with Cheney in terms of presidential quality. For the moment, they're failing.

First, there's an NBC poll on who would make a better President:

http://www.pollingreport.com/images/NBCveep.GIF

Second, there's the favourability ratings. Already mentioned a couple before where Edwards compared very favourably to Cheney. Rasmussen has a third:

Edwards
Favourable 46%
Unfavourable 25%
Cheney
Favourable 41%
Unfavourable 45%

"Among voters not affiliated with either major party, Edwards numbers are 48% favorable, 17% unfavorable, and 35% not sure."

Third, also in the Rasmussen poll, respondents were asked whether they believed Edwards and Cheney were liberal, moderate or conservative:

Edwards
6% - Conservative
54% - Moderate
39% - Liberal
Cheney
70% - Conservative
21% - Moderate
9% - Liberal

Full story here. Rasmussens summary:
Quote:
While Republicans are presenting Kerry and Edwards as the most liberal ticket ever, a majority of Americans say that John Edwards is a political moderate. Edwards is also viewed more favorably than the man he hopes to replace, Dick Cheney.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 08:38 am
I suspect Edwards is yet to most folks something of an "unknown", and that the real base of his current "popularity" is based on his looks and his "nice guy" image ... both of which seem somehow to figure in just about every Mainstream Mass Media mention of him. As his Curriculum Vitae gets more play, as surely its going to, impressions may be expected to change. I expect to see much made of his Senate voting record, and of his litigational history. Additionally, already there is some concern revolving around fundraising irregularities, including an official FEC investigation. If he's not a genuine saint, he may find the road a bit steeper than he had foreseen.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 08:49 am
The Maine index is changing because the summah people have arrived.

The pollsters are talking to a lot of sailboat types whilst they lick on their ice cream cones outside of Danny's.

Down on the lobster docks, the folks who sail the waters for income, wheel their ropes, stare out to sea and wait for Novembah.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 09:16 am
LOL thatd be a reassuring explanation, but I dont think the pollsters are exactly walking around interviewing people on the street! ;-)

Samples are compiled from residence data ... they get the data for everyone who lives in a certain area, start polling and make sure they end up with a sample that reflects a representative spread on all the criteria (and/or apply weightings)

Or some variation of that, anyway ...

Nice image tho ;-)
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 10:45 am
Rasmussen July 9: Kerry/Edwards Up 1
All in all, the Edwards Effect appears to be more "Ho-Hum" than "Hooo-Boy!"
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 04:31 pm
Got two state polls by ARG in my inbox. New Mexico and Michigan.

Both have pretty good news for Kerry. In Michigan, its Kerry with 50%, Bush at 43% and Nader at 2%. In New Mexico, Kerry at 49%, Bush at 42% and Nader at 3%.

Caution, though. ARG polls pretty consistently favourably for Kerry. I dunno how come, but my gut feeling is you'll need to subtract some points from those leads.

The NM one made me suspect. The sample is specified as being 49% Democrats, 35% Republicans and 16% Other/None. Are there really that many registered Dems in NM, or is that a serious oversampling?

Still, even when calculating in the grain of salt, there's some good news in here. The Michigan sample was evenly spread, and still the Kerry lead. Plus, the Independents there going for Kerry 49% to 40%. And unlike in a Florida ARG poll, where Bush led Kerry among men 54% to 38%, here Kerry and Bush are tied among male voters. Among women, Kerry has the same wide lead in both states.

In NM, the poll has Independents going 49% to 38% for Kerry. Plus, compared to an April 1 ARG poll (which, if ARG is partisan, should have been equally partisan), Kerry's up 4 points, Bush down 4. Mostly due to rallying the base - percentage of Dems planning to vote Bush dropped form 20% to 12%.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 05:04 pm
Thanks, nimh. The ARG poll in MI & NM does seem a bit improbable, unless its attibutable to the Edwards' bounce that timber believes to be illusary.
I've got MI in the dem camp; NM in the repub. -rjb-
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 06:29 pm
realjohn, if you see an Edwards Bounce, please let us all know where we can look at it.

Say, while we're lookin' at snapshots, here are a couple more:

Quote:
Kerry's VP Pick Doesn't Lead to Bounce in Michigan Poll

LANSING (AP) -- John Kerry's selection of John Edwards as his running mate has NOT given the Democratic ticket a big bounce in Michigan, a new poll shows.

Forty-seven percent of likely Michigan voters said they would vote for Kerry and Edwards if the election were held today. Forty-four percent backed President Bush and Vice President Cheney.

The numbers are similar to a poll conducted in early June, which had Kerry getting 47 percent and Bush with 45 percent.

Lansing-based EPIC/MRA conducted the poll of 600 likely voters from Tuesday through yesterday.

Posted 1:15 p.m., 7-9


Quote:
Rasmussen:Ohio: Bush 46% Kerry 42%

July 9, 2004--In Ohio, the latest Rasmussen Reports survey shows President Bush with 46% of the vote and Senator Kerry with 42%. That four point edge matches Bush's margin of victory in the state four years ago. In Election 2000, it was Bush 50% Gore 46%.

Last month, it was Bush 46% Kerry 44% in our Ohio poll


Quote:
SurveyUSA: Bush Leads Missouri, Virginia, 7/9/04
Missouri: Bush 48%, Kerry 46%, Other/Undecided 6%, MOE 3.6%
Virginia: Bush 50%, Kerry 45%, Other/Undecided 5%, MOE 3.8%
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 06:52 pm
timberlandko wrote:
realjohn, if you see an Edwards Bounce, please let us all know where we can look at it.

He was referring to ARG's New Mexico poll. Much like you're now referring to Rasmussen's Michigan poll to contend there was no bounce. <shrugs>


(For the record: going on all the national/state polls of the last few days, I do agree that there hasnt been much of any noticeabe Edwards bounce. But if one state poll without bounce is fair game, than another with a bounce is also.)
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 06:55 pm
Oh, they're all fair game nimh ... at this point, its not much more than a game ... and we both damned well know that :wink:
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 07:03 pm
yep

still just practicing 100 different ways to say, "the race is tied"
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 10:02 pm
From TNR's Campaign Journal, on a new Time poll. Note also what it says about what voters think Edwards's of background as a lawyer.

Quote:
EDWARDS VS. CHENEY: Time has a new poll out this afternoon confirming that, in general, Edwards is an asset to Kerry while Cheney is a liability for Bush. It's the first poll I've seen since Kerry selected Edwards that has detailed questions about Edwards and Cheney and a significant sample size.

Edwards's "favorability" rating among registered voters who know enough about him to have an opinion is a healthy 39 percent, while just 12 percent view him unfavorably. Cheney's favorable rating is 41 percent, but his unfavorable rating is up to 40 percent. Worse, Cheney's job approval rating is a dismal 41 percent, while 47 percent disapprove of the job he's doing. That, of course, is the number to watch when thinking about whether Cheney's experience is an asset or not. If voters think the job you are doing sucks, your experience is a liabilty.

Indeed, the poll confirms this with this stunning conclusion: Asked, "which vice presidential candidate do you think would make a better president," voters picked Edwards over Cheney 47 percent to 38 percent. So much for Cheney's decades of Beltway gigs being a good contrast with Edwards's single term in the Senate.

But surely voters think Edwards's background as a lawyer is a bad thing, right? Nope. Thirty-five percent say it would make them more favorable toward him, while 28 percent say it would make them less favorable. Fifty-five percent say his days as a lawyer demonstrates a "willingness to fight for the average person against big companies," while only 26 percent echo the Bush campaign line that "it contributed to the problem of frivolous lawsuits."

Oh yeah, the poll also reports that Bush can't break 44 percent among registered voters in either a two-way race with Kerry (Kerry: 47.5 percent; Bush: 43.3 percent) or a three-way race with Kerry and Nader (Kerry: 46.5 percent; Bush: 43.5 percent; Nader: 3.6 percent). This is still Kerry's race to lose.

posted 4:59 p.m.

Addendum: Polling Report has slightly different numbers on those election matches, namely Kerry 49, Bush 45, Other/unsure 6 without Nader, and with him Kerry 47, Bush 45, Nader 4, Unsure 5. Dunno whence the difference.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jul, 2004 01:01 pm
(emphases all in the original)

Quote:
Rasmussen Reports
Kerry-Edwards 49%
Bush-Cheney 45%

Saturday July 10, 2004--Senator Kerry now leads President Bush in the Rasmussen Reports Presidential Tracking Poll, 49% to 45%. Today's results reflect a five-point net gain for the Democrats since John Edwards was named as Kerry's running mate. In our last survey before the announcement, President Bush had a one-point edge, 47% to 46%.

Today is the first time since Kerry wrapped up the nomination that either candidate topped the 48% mark in our daily Tracking Poll. Prior to today, both candidates had stayed within three points of the 45% mark on every single night of polling for more than 120 days.

Yesterday, we released data showing Kerry leading by 5 points in Pennsylvania while Bush leads by four in Ohio. Our latest Electoral College projections show Kerry leading Bush 247-203.
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