The oldest references in the world.

You forgot rock

painting those have been dated back as far as the evolutionist believe to tens of thousands of years ago far older than any

other form of messaging.

Yeh but are they

really the oldest???

Pharon and dan-E:

I believe that in Austrailia in the very far interior a special rock was discovered that merely had the handprints of

pre-history abourigines there. Maybe one of our Oz friends can tell us more about this.

From what I've read, the records were invented to keep track of THINGS. The first records were probable bundles of sticks (one for each sheep) or bags of pebbles (likewise).

Bundles and bags are bulky, so pretty soon the sophisticated tally men of the world used notched sticks (or rocks).

Another educated guess from the experts I've read. Records weren't absolutely vital for families or even clans. As urban living evolved records were necessary for the tax man.

I can think of two of the top off my head, but will need some time to track them down.

1. Bone objects with scores that are obviously lunar calendars.
2. Carvings on rocks in Central Australia that indicate that water was close at hand.

I pick this as 'reference' (that it imparted something of use), rather than something with a symbolic interpretation. Possibly the first reference tools were metrics, standard measures for length and weights.

Hi! And Welcome to Able2Know
Mr. Stillwater-

Happy to meet you!

Regards,

Phoenix

Actually, historians recognice today as the oldest writing (!) the so-called 'plant-like' and 'trident-shaped' markings, which have been found on fragments of pottery dating back 5500 years. This is in Pakistan, at a site called Harappa, in the region where the great Harappan or Indus civilisation flourished.

Before that (they were found in 1999), it was suggested that the oldest writing might have come from Egypt.
Clay tablets containing primitive words were uncovered in southern Egypt at the tomb of a king named Scorpion.
They were carbon-dated to 3300-3200 BC. This is about the same time, or slightly earlier, to the primitive writing developed by the Sumerians of the Mesopotamian civilisation around 3100 BC.

Since the Harappan language died out and did not form the basis of other languages, we probably will never know what is/was written on there:

Well, if you are just talking about the oldest reference type, and not just specifically writing, you would have to include storytelling. All records of family and tribe and culture were at one time kept orally by the storyteller.

That's why I like storytelling in all its forms, including books, movies and all the other media--it all goes way, way, way, way, WAY back to prehistory--Makes me feel connected.

How about this? Try the following link to find out.
http://www.dharmacentral.com/faq.htm

c.i.

Lunar calendars seem to be the earliest 'reference' works. As it represented a reliable method of ascertaining the passage of time, a system of counting would arise from the observation of the phases of the moon.

Calendars of this nature can be found on cave walls in France (Lascuax ca. 15,000 B.P.), but there are tallies in bone that could be 32,000 old! This is more portable than a wall painting and would form the basis of a sort of 'almanac'.

Although the lunar calendar does not conform to the solar one it still would work by fixing an solar event like a solstice and then counting from then ie "Summer solstice plus one and a half moon changes = good time to move to coast to do seasonal fishing".


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/975360.stm

The oldest form of "record" which has been fully accessible to all of mankind since the beginning of time is:

The stars in the sky and all their associated patterns etc

This is an interesting line to writing systems and how they developedl

Ancient Writing Systems



A Sumerian Prescription

It seems that it has always been difficult to decipher an MDs writing.

If we're looking for earth based records, I think we can look to the redwood trees. c.i.

Joshua pines

Good idea c.i. let us go to Muir Woods for a day trip.

Hi JD, Haven't been there in many a year, but still remember those walks in the woods. Those trails are real nice too! Tell me the date and time, and I'll be there! c.i.

Dys where are the Joshua pines located? Are these trees older than stone?

joshua pines are only in the VERY high mountains of California and Colorado that i know of Oldest species in the world

I think there's a Joshua National Park someplace in California.