Is Patriotism Obsolete?

@Mr Fight the Power,

Mr. Fight the Power;81496 wrote:

But why, if you don't discriminate between the two, is patriotism not a useless term?

A moral patriot and a humanitarian are one and the same, so it would be pointless to call someone a patriot.

Of course a less than moral patriot can be different than a humanitarian.

Your creating divisions when there need not be.As a humanitarian you have no influence on these foreign countries morals and only by being a patriot can you hope to secure any real improvements for these foreigners.

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@Mr Fight the Power,

Mr. Fight the Power;81251 wrote:

Certainly, but if your patriotic fervor is matched for your fervor to help all men, it is difficult to call one a patriot, is it not?

Absolutely not...

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@RDRDRD1,

All of us, no matter our country, do distinguish between our nation's domestic and international roles. There is a dichotomy that isn't a matter of discrimination so much as a necessary recognition of reality. I want my government to deliver most of its bounty and benefits to my fellow countrymen, to make my people stronger, healthier and better able to contribute to our land. I want that healthy country to then work as a force for good in the global community of nations. When you're from a small country, at least in terms of population, the amount of good you can render has to be quite focused and much different than the more universal varieties of domestic policies. There are limits to what a land of under 40-million people can do for a world approaching 7-billion.

What of patriotism from the other perspective, the type of 'defence of motherland' patriotism we're seeing today, particularly in the United States and some southern European countries where there's great apprehension of inundation by foreign migrants?

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@RDRDRD1,

RDRDRD1;81603 wrote:

All of us, no matter our country, do distinguish between our nation's domestic and international roles...

I see what you're saying (and echoing a part of what Mr FTP is also talking about). I suppose that in the practical mechanics of the situation, such a dichotomy is likely - yes, absolutely. But that's now the question, in this thread, is it? Maybe so, but I didn't think so...

Where I'm coming from (and y'all please tell me if this is off) is this: Patriotism is a feeling; a feeling of love for one's own community. As such, it is primarily concerned with those feelings - although they're manifest by actions - and therefore aren't immediately concerned with how that love is shown. In this context, actions (which do generally gravitate towards that dichotomy) may indeed conflict - or at least not serve 'two masters' at once. Even so, that love of ones' community (i.e., patriotism), alone, isn't in conflict with an equal feeling of world-community. One needn't point out that feelings, alone, don't "do" much when not acted upon - this is a given I'd think.

Wow that's tough to delineate - I feel like we're somehow comparing apples and oranges here.

Thanks

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@Khethil,

Khethil;81613 wrote:

I see what you're saying (and echoing a part of what Mr FTP is also talking about). I suppose that in the practical mechanics of the situation, such a dichotomy is likely - yes, absolutely. But that's now the question, in this thread, is it? Maybe so, but I didn't think so...

Where I'm coming from (and y'all please tell me if this is off) is this: Patriotism is a feeling; a feeling of love for one's own community. As such, it is primarily concerned with those feelings - although they're manifest by actions - and therefore aren't immediately concerned with how that love is shown. In this context, actions (which do generally gravitate towards that dichotomy) may indeed conflict - or at least not serve 'two masters' at once. Even so, that love of ones' community (i.e., patriotism), alone, isn't in conflict with an equal feeling of world-community. One needn't point out that feelings, alone, don't "do" much when not acted upon - this is a given I'd think.

Wow that's tough to delineate - I feel like we're somehow comparing apples and oranges here.

Thanks

Look at it like dogs and mammals. We distinguish between the two and separate dogs because they have a specific quality that is not common to all mammals. It is one distinct subset of all mammals. If there were not any distinguishing qualities between different subsets of mammals, then we would simply refer to them as mammals.

When we apply this to patriotism and humanitarianism, we must find a distinguishing characteristic of patriotism that distinguishes it from other forms of humanitarianism. Otherwise it would not be a subset, but rather just referred to as humanitarianism.

Obviously this distinguishing characteristic is concern for the well-being of one's countrymen.

At this point I charge that this is a wholly arbitrary and nonsensical distinction to make. There is nothing about ones countrymen that distinguishes them as beings deserving ones concern.

Many of you are my countrymen, many of you are not. At no point, if any of you were to ask for my help with something, would I consider your nationality, and if any of you were to consider mine, I would be offended.

That would be vulgar group thinking that assaulted my status as an individual human being.

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@RDRDRD1,

"Vulgar group thinking" - I like that. So, I'm sure does Madison Avenue or the Teabag protestors.

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Is Patriotism Obsolete?

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