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Proof that God is morally good & other properties of God

 
 
Aedes
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Sep, 2009 03:39 am
@TheSingingSword,
TheSingingSword;89306 wrote:
Just a question. Why do you believe in electrons?
Because they're empirically demonstrable. I believe in electrons for the same reason that I believe in molten lava and snow leopards, even though I've never seen those with my naked eyes either.
hammersklavier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Sep, 2009 07:24 am
@Krumple,
Krumple;89253 wrote:
Well how about I ask the question in a slightly different way. Are flying pink elephants moral? Answer that for me please.

ignoratio elenchi
0 Replies
 
Berner
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Sep, 2009 07:51 am
@Justin,
Justin;89254 wrote:
So then if God is not energy, what is it?


I'm going to go ahead and say nothing.

Justin;89254 wrote:

For one, God by definition is a word that mankind created to describe a mythological deity that hovers above life and is to be worshiped in fear because of eternal death and damnation.


And I hope you see why that seems so utterly ridiculous.

Justin;89254 wrote:

God is just a word to describe an unknown. So God could very well be the energy that surrounds all life.


What kind of energy exactly? Heat? Kinetic Energy? Potential Energy? Nuclear Energy? This is why saying god is energy is a cop out. Of all the types of energy what kind is god? If we understand the nature of energy and how to produce and manipulate it, then how is it a god?

Justin;89254 wrote:

No, I don't agree with the properties of energy being uncaring because there's one attribute in all universe and that's balance. If balance is not met, energy will change and shift to keep balance in this creating universe. Thus energy cares about balance. We may actually have created a Godlike creature to worship and called it God but in fact, it may actually be the energy of the universe that breaths life into everything.


Tomorrow energy from the sun doesn't care if solar winds were to blasted off it's surface, headed towards earth and ripped our ozone off over top of us. This would actually be more "beneficial" (for lack of a better word) to the Universe because it would increase the overall entropy of it.

Justin;89254 wrote:

The difficulty in all of this is man's perception of what God is. For me, it's a definition and word created by man to define something man has yet to uncover. And to believe it, one must have faith in what another man has written or seen while he could have been using hallucinogenic drugs.


And there is the smoking gun. There is something wrong with me because I have no faith. I demand evidence and am therefore close minded or wrong somehow.

I'm not insinuating you consider me this, but people who don't like when I challenge them on the existence of gods act like this.

Justin;89254 wrote:

So, while we don't know for certain of man's definition of god, we do know that there is energy and balance in all creation. We can see it, measure it and confirm it. We KNOW that anything that becomes out of balance is detrimental and nature will bring it back into balance or prune it all together. We also not the power of nature in respect to balance.

So for me, I believe there's a god but not the god most people have defined in their minds. If there's a God at all, that god is the balancing energy that supplies all of life and that presence is within us all making us co-creators with this balance and energy, thus making us Gods in a philosophical sense.


So Pantheism?
0 Replies
 
TheSingingSword
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Sep, 2009 11:08 am
@Aedes,
Aedes;89349 wrote:
Because they're empirically demonstrable. I believe in electrons for the same reason that I believe in molten lava and snow leopards, even though I've never seen those with my naked eyes either.



As far as my understanding goes, which may admittedly be inadequate, I am under the assumption that they are not, in fact, empirically demonstrable. I thought they were theoretical only. Am I wrong?

---------- Post added 09-10-2009 at 01:20 PM ----------

Krumple;89341 wrote:
Well for me they are a theory that can be backed up by the mathematics of chemistry. We can make predictions based off their existence and test those predictions in the lab. We can repeat these tests over and over and come to pretty much the same results. It is why we have chemistry.

I have never seen one but it doesn't mean there isn't something there acting how we understand electrons to behave.

So what are you getting at by asking the question?



What I am getting at, is simply that we cannot directly witness an electron. It's existence cannot really be proven. What we can do is assume that there is something there because of processes that take place on a chemical level. Seeing that science is still very young, what is to say that a god-force will not similarly be discovered, and only be describable in terms of what it affects, rather than what it is? We can only know what we have already discovered, but that doesn't mean we have discovered everything.
Justin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Sep, 2009 11:37 am
@TheSingingSword,
Krumple;89282 wrote:
This implies that energy consciously strives for balance? I don't think so. To me it is just opposing forces that cancel each other which creates balance. I don't think there is any thought behind it, if there were you could conclude that it should have the ability to Will an imbalance then. But we never see that, so there is obviously no conscious decision for balance.

The only time there is no balance is when one force overwhelms another force for a time.

Correct. Sexed opposites or if you will, opposing forces in which create balance. Thought is also energy and we do have the power to will imbalance. Just take a look around and it's not hard to see. The will of humankind has created plenty of imbalances. For example, depression causes imbalance. It's the thought energy that causes the imbalance and often times can make us sick, which is also imbalance.

Berner;89386 wrote:
And I hope you see why that seems so utterly ridiculous.

What's utterly ridiculous? Not sure I understand. Please be a bit more clear.

Berner;89386 wrote:
What kind of energy exactly? Heat? Kinetic Energy? Potential Energy? Nuclear Energy? This is why saying god is energy is a cop out. Of all the types of energy what kind is god? If we understand the nature of energy and how to produce and manipulate it, then how is it a god?

A cop out?... yeah, that's the point in all this. So we can have a cop out. LOL.

You've done a fine job or taking one source of energy and dividing it into different types of energy with names. Those energies are all effect of One energy IMHO. Again, this is a world of effect and we are blind to the cause therefore our focus in on effect of what can be measured and defined by either science or religion. It goes well far beyond that. Maybe energy isn't the right word, maybe electricity would be a better word. Or how about electric-wave universe.

You say how is it God? I don't know, maybe you should tell me which God you are referring to first. I'm not referring to God, I'm referring to universal energy not a deity. Energy is present in all things. God is present in all things. Energy gives life, God gives life. Do you see the correlation? God is a word that man gave to describe a deity or the source of life.

Berner;89386 wrote:
Tomorrow energy from the sun doesn't care if solar winds were to blasted off it's surface, headed towards earth and ripped our ozone off over top of us. This would actually be more "beneficial" (for lack of a better word) to the Universe because it would increase the overall entropy of it.

It doesn't? Please explain then why this hasn't happened. I'd be most interested in understanding your interpretation of this. The sky has been falling for many many thousands of years according to man.. but it hasn't fallen a bit.

Berner;89386 wrote:
I'm insinuating you consider me this, but people who don't like when I challenge them on the existence of gods act like this.

??? You've lost me. You're insinuating I consider what? I simply responded directly to your posts I assumed nothing. What cockamamie idea is it that you feel I consider you anything at all.

Who are you challenging my friend? You aren't challenging me that I can see on anything. All you are is making assumptions. My challenge is in understanding what you are saying here.

Berner;89386 wrote:
So Pantheism?

Not sure is it? I'm not into isms but if that's a word to describe something I've said above... well, so-be-it. I'm not into making labels or using the isms that many use and could actually care less what ism it is.

Am I missing something here?
Berner
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Sep, 2009 01:12 pm
@Justin,
Justin;89420 wrote:

What's utterly ridiculous? Not sure I understand. Please be a bit more clear.


The notion of eternal reward/punishment upon death.

Justin;89420 wrote:

A cop out?... yeah, that's the point in all this. So we can have a cop out. LOL.

You've done a fine job or taking one source of energy and dividing it into different types of energy with names. Those energies are all effect of One energy IMHO. Again, this is a world of effect and we are blind to the cause therefore our focus in on effect of what can be measured and defined by either science or religion.


No it's not all one source of energy but ok. When I'm talking energy I'm talking about it's standard definition:

Wikipedia wrote:

is a scalar physical quantity that describes the amount of work that can be performed by a force


Why do you assume there has to be a cause that needs an explaination via religion?

Justin wrote:
It goes well far beyond that. Maybe energy isn't the right word, maybe electricity would be a better word. Or how about electric-wave universe.


Could you explain what you mean here a little more? Your terms aren't quite making sense to me.

Justin;89420 wrote:

You say how is it God? I don't know, maybe you should tell me which God you are referring to first. I'm not referring to God, I'm referring to universal energy not a deity. Energy is present in all things. God is present in all things. Energy gives life, God gives life. Do you see the correlation? God is a word that man gave to describe a deity or the source of life.


I'm not referring to any specific gods. So essentially you are saying the entire Universe is a god/gods?

Justin;89420 wrote:

It doesn't? Please explain then why this hasn't happened. I'd be most interested in understanding your interpretation of this. The sky has been falling for many many thousands of years according to man.. but it hasn't fallen a bit.


I didn't say it was going to happen or that it's even stastically probable to. My point is that there is no conscious action by energy. It's simply a manifestation of a natural Universe.

Justin;89420 wrote:

??? You've lost me. You're insinuating I consider what? I simply responded directly to your posts I assumed nothing. What cockamamie idea is it that you feel I consider you anything at all.

Who are you challenging my friend? You aren't challenging me that I can see on anything. All you are is making assumptions. My challenge is in understanding what you are saying here.


That was a typo on my part. I'll edit now to avoid confusion.

Justin;89420 wrote:

Not sure is it? I'm not into isms but if that's a word to describe something I've said above... well, so-be-it. I'm not into making labels or using the isms that many use and could actually care less what ism it is.

Am I missing something here?


I'm pretty sure that's what Pantheism is but I could be wrong.
Justin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Sep, 2009 02:00 pm
@Berner,
Berner;89432 wrote:
The notion of eternal reward/punishment upon death.

Yeah, I agree on the notion of eternal reward/punishment.

Berner;89432 wrote:
No it's not all one source of energy but ok. When I'm talking energy I'm talking about it's standard definition:

OK, then what's the source of it all?

Berner;89432 wrote:
Why do you assume there has to be a cause that needs an explaination via religion?

I didn't assume that. I think you are assuming. I'm not into religion because it divides people but as others have said, it has also built a moral system. The cause surely cannot be explained by any one religion and that's not at all what I was trying to say.

Berner;89432 wrote:
Could you explain what you mean here a little more? Your terms aren't quite making sense to me.

If you were to drill down to the smallest particle of molecule or the smallest source of anything, there's one thing that science cannot wrap their heads around. All there is is light. Use the most sophisticated microscope in the world and at the heart and core of everything is light. So one source of energy, present in all things at the core of all things and that is scientific, not religious.

To explain electric waves would take many pages, a book perhaps so I won't bother trying to explain what an electric wave universe is. Do a google search and see what you come up on that term. It may be interesting.

I've done a bit of searching and here's what I've found that maybe some decent reading:

Healthydoctors insight newsletter article bioenergetic medicine may be the missing link.

PJ 13 God Said Let There be Light Chapters 14 & 15

University of Science and Philosophy - P.O. Box 520, Waynesboro, VA 22980 - Light

Berner;89432 wrote:
I'm not referring to any specific gods. So essentially you are saying the entire Universe is a god/gods?

Not really. I'm saying that God has been defined by humans. Their definition of God parallels infinite wisdom or a divine creator or even what some call the source of all things. Generally this term is used to describe a jealous beast who lives in the heavens and if not worshiped and obeyed, the consequence is eternal damnation. The stories of what this all means are abundant and creative and why not, man is a creative being.

So God of man is just misunderstood is all. If we refer to a greater power or a greater spirit or even a greater wisdom, we generally refer to the deity, God. On the other hand, God is described as omnipotent, omniscience, and omnipresent therefore all could be considered God. So, if there's is but on thing reflecting itself infinitely into this universe, that one thing could be what man has referred to as God without all the added bonus stories. So if we are merely a reflection of electricity, our reflection would be our physical counterpart and if God is omni-everything then we're just a chip off the old block. :detective:

We get caught up in the physical reflection which is the material world in which man creates and idolizes. Unknowingly we reflect ourselves into the world attracting that which we reflect. Separation from the divine source comes with basing our existence on what we consider to be our physical reality when in all actuality, the physical world and our physical body is not what we are or who we are, but it's easy to get caught up in the illusion.

Let's not get too caught up in all this because I don't want to derail the topic.

Berner;89432 wrote:
I didn't say it was going to happen or that it's even stastically probable to. My point is that there is no conscious action by energy. It's simply a manifestation of a natural Universe.

The natural universe seeks balance. If anything at all, we know beyond any doubt that BALANCE is a big and very important word. So if there is a God, then couldn't god be described as balance? The universe has also one other unique characteristic and that is LOVE. What's unique about it that love actually creates balance. So we could thus say that God, assuming that there is one, could in fact be described as BALANCE and LOVE. Nature exemplifies both of these so perfectly yet so subtly and humankind pays very little attention because we are caught up in a world of illusion or sexed opposites of a light wave or particle under atomic pressures which separate ourselves even further from the truth. Thus making it necessary to create religions to explain that which we do not understand.

Berner;89432 wrote:
That was a typo on my part. I'll edit now to avoid confusion.

No worries! I wasn't sure... Thanks for explaining.

Berner;89432 wrote:
I'm pretty sure that's what Pantheism is but I could be wrong.

It might be. Let's look it up.

Wikipedia wrote:
Pantheism (Greek: πάν (pan) = all and θεός (theos) = God, literally "God is all" -ism) is the view that everything is part of an all-encompassing immanent God. In pantheism, the Universe (Nature) and God are considered equivalent and synonymous. More detailed definitions tend to emphasize the idea that God is better understood as an abstract principle representing natural law, existence, and the Universe (the sum total of all that was, is and shall be), rather than as an anthropomorphic entity. With some exceptions, pantheism is non-theistic, but it is not atheistic[.

I guess you are right. I actually don't study this type of stuff or use the isms because I just don't care about them. All I can see is what is before me through my own rose colored glasses, (if you will). Wasn't Pantheism directly related to the teachings of Christ as well... Oh, let's not go there again, it will take the thread off topic even moreso than it already is.

Hopefully I've explained myself a bit better. The reason I responded originally was because I saw your post and quoted it and responded. I pay very little attention to who I am responding to and more towards the subject or meaning of the words.

Back to the topic, I agree that 'God' or whatever you want to call it, is morally good in both love and balance.

Peace!
0 Replies
 
Aedes
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Sep, 2009 03:11 pm
@TheSingingSword,
TheSingingSword;89416 wrote:
As far as my understanding goes, which may admittedly be inadequate, I am under the assumption that they are not, in fact, empirically demonstrable. I thought they were theoretical only. Am I wrong?
Yes, quite wrong.
Berner
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Sep, 2009 03:31 pm
@TheSingingSword,
Justin;89440 wrote:

OK, then what's the source of it all?


The Universe.

Justin;89440 wrote:

I didn't assume that. I think you are assuming. I'm not into religion because it divides people but as others have said, it has also built a moral system. The cause surely cannot be explained by any one religion and that's not at all what I was trying to say.


I'd argue that religion perverted our innate morality (a whole other thread entirely). Also good to know that's not what you meant.

Justin;89440 wrote:

If you were to drill down to the smallest particle of molecule or the smallest source of anything, there's one thing that science cannot wrap their heads around. All there is is light. Use the most sophisticated microscope in the world and at the heart and core of everything is light. So one source of energy, present in all things at the core of all things and that is scientific, not religious.


Not light though. Energy (in this case the strong Nuclear force). This is more physics and cosmology (the origin of matter) though, which are two things I'm not particularly versed in.

Justin;89440 wrote:

To explain electric waves would take many pages, a book perhaps so I won't bother trying to explain what an electric wave universe is. Do a google search and see what you come up on that term. It may be interesting.

I've done a bit of searching and here's what I've found that maybe some decent reading:

Healthydoctors insight newsletter article bioenergetic medicine may be the missing link.

PJ 13 God Said Let There be Light Chapters 14 & 15

University of Science and Philosophy - P.O. Box 520, Waynesboro, VA 22980 - Light


Will read later and perhaps edit this post if I feel it necessary.

Justin;89440 wrote:

So if we are merely a reflection of electricity, our reflection would be our physical counterpart and if God is omni-everything then we're just a chip off the old block. :detective:


Why call it god though?

Justin;89440 wrote:

We get caught up in the physical reflection which is the material world in which man creates and idolizes. Unknowingly we reflect ourselves into the world attracting that which we reflect. Separation from the divine source comes with basing our existence on what we consider to be our physical reality when in all actuality, the physical world and our physical body is not what we are or who we are, but it's easy to get caught up in the illusion.

Let's not get too caught up in all this because I don't want to derail the topic.


Ok I don't really want to get into this right now either.

Justin;89440 wrote:

The natural universe seeks balance. If anything at all, we know beyond any doubt that BALANCE is a big and very important word. So if there is a God, then couldn't god be described as balance? The universe has also one other unique characteristic and that is LOVE. What's unique about it that love actually creates balance. So we could thus say that God, assuming that there is one, could in fact be described as BALANCE and LOVE. Nature exemplifies both of these so perfectly yet so subtly and humankind pays very little attention because we are caught up in a world of illusion or sexed opposites of a light wave or particle under atomic pressures which separate ourselves even further from the truth. Thus making it necessary to create religions to explain that which we do not understand.


But nature doesn't exhibit love. If it does can you provide any examples?

TheSingingSword;89416 wrote:
As far as my understanding goes, which may admittedly be inadequate, I am under the assumption that they are not, in fact, empirically demonstrable. I thought they were theoretical only. Am I wrong?

What I am getting at, is simply that we cannot directly witness an electron. It's existence cannot really be proven. What we can do is assume that there is something there because of processes that take place on a chemical level. Seeing that science is still very young, what is to say that a god-force will not similarly be discovered, and only be describable in terms of what it affects, rather than what it is? We can only know what we have already discovered, but that doesn't mean we have discovered everything.


Crookes tube - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
TheSingingSword
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Sep, 2009 03:54 pm
@Aedes,
Aedes;89452 wrote:
Yes, quite wrong.

Actually, I'm not. They are in no way empirically demonstrable.

---------- Post added 09-10-2009 at 06:01 PM ----------

I suppose I should clarify. I do believe in electrons. I also believe in an overarching life force, be it mind, love, God, whatever. I know it is there because I can see the effects of it on the rest of the universe, actually the exact same method by which we know electrons are there. That's why it tickled me so much when the poster brought up electrons as an example.
Leonard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Sep, 2009 05:12 pm
@deepthot,
Of course god has to be benevolent, but unless he's perfect and doesn't require anything of us people are going to be defiant of god. People are atheists because they don't see why god would require such specific rules to be followed, rather than just basic moral concepts.
0 Replies
 
Berner
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Sep, 2009 06:46 pm
@TheSingingSword,
TheSingingSword;89456 wrote:
Actually, I'm not. They are in no way empirically demonstrable.


Crookes tube - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You can't see atomic bonds. Or can you? : Greg Laden's Blog
0 Replies
 
hammersklavier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Sep, 2009 07:16 pm
@Berner,
Berner;89453 wrote:
The Universe.
What is the Universe, metaphysically?
Quote:

I'd argue that religion perverted our innate morality (a whole other thread entirely). Also good to know that's not what you meant.
Religion both perfects and perverts morality; this lies in its very definition. By upholding unattainable moral exemplars Christianity forces us to believe we are all damned (as some would have it); yet by striving to attain these exemplars we at the same time become more moral beings.
Quote:

Why call it god though?
Why call it the Tao? Brahman? They are both valid names for it.
Quote:

But nature doesn't exhibit love. If it does can you provide any examples?
Are not many species (e.g. swans) monogamous? What then is this monogamy built upon?
0 Replies
 
Aedes
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Sep, 2009 07:29 pm
@TheSingingSword,
TheSingingSword;89456 wrote:
Actually, I'm not. They are in no way empirically demonstrable.
They are easily so. You just cannot demonstrate an individual one in isolation of others. Beyond that, even a freshman general chemistry class will have its students reproduce some of the basic empirical demonstrations of electrons.
Justin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Sep, 2009 06:26 am
@Aedes,
Berner;89453 wrote:
But nature doesn't exhibit love. If it does can you provide any examples?

I guess that depends on how you look at it. I cannot provide examples for which I see. That's like the glass half empty or half full sort of thing. I see nature exhibit love and the most unique and wonderful expression of it. I see mankind in co-creation with nature but he knows not.

That's the thing, we all look at things differently and that's why everyone is different and unique. A lot of what's seen is by choice. I'd rather focus on the love than on the hate because hate creates imbalance in the body which leads to imbalance in relationships and eventually disease or cancer. Love on the other hand has a balancing effect which I see as working with nature not against it.

Trust me, not everyone looks at or sees the same things I do and to talk about it, I loose them almost as soon as I open my mouth and start talking. But then again who gives a hoot about football and Danika Patrick... So I suppose that's why we're all here discussing these things.
0 Replies
 
deepthot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Sep, 2009 11:54 am
@Berner,
Berner;88019 wrote:
Pardon?

Please re-read your own posts more carefully.

... god you say is good.

but ok...

Thanks for your thoughtful replies, Berner.

When I listed those Theorems in the Theology, they were providing attributeds of God, properties that God possesses.

I say that "God is good" because Goodness is my God. Recall that - in G's definition - 'the highest of all high values, rolled into one' is what I designate as "God." (Technically-speaking it was I-Value to the I-power, recursively...a case of exponentiation.)

I didn't expect that there would be any dispute that energy is highly valuable, since it is indispensable for us even to have a body, or air to breathe. The whole universe is made of it....

Thus I conclude that one of the properties of the natural force, which is God, is energy. Also, Beauty and Truth, Liberty and Morality, Love and Fellowhip, Etc. Etc.
0 Replies
 
Kielicious
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Sep, 2009 12:50 pm
@TheSingingSword,
TheSingingSword;89456 wrote:
Actually, I'm not. They are in no way empirically demonstrable.


Have you ever seen a blackhole...



TheSingingSword wrote:
I suppose I should clarify. I do believe in electrons. I also believe in an overarching life force, be it mind, love, God, whatever. I know it is there because I can see the effects of it on the rest of the universe, actually the exact same method by which we know electrons are there. That's why it tickled me so much when the poster brought up electrons as an example.



And I believe in an overarching life force called Santa Claus. I know it is there because I too can see the effects of him. It looks like our evidence and method of understanding are the same, so who's right? Well, me of course because I know Santa personally. He speaks to me and answers my prayers. Besides, Im less biased too. Wink
deepthot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Sep, 2009 02:15 pm
@Kielicious,
Kielicious;89635 wrote:
I believe in an overarching life force called Santa Claus. I know it is there because I too can see the effects of him. It looks like our evidence and method of understanding are the same, so who's right? Well, me of course because I know Santa personally. He speaks to me and answers my prayers. Besides, Im less biased too. Wink


I am glad to hear that Santa Claus answers your prayers. I infer that you don't need God then.

Good luck to you!

[I'm a little puzzled, though, why you refer to your personal friend as "an overaching life force."]
Kielicious
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Sep, 2009 02:52 pm
@deepthot,
deepthot;89645 wrote:
I am glad to hear that Santa Claus answers your prayers. I infer that you don't need God then.

Good luck to you!

[I'm a little puzzled, though, why you refer to your personal friend as "an overaching life force."]



LoL, I would avoid being this gullible. Although, perhaps you satire is over my head and I am the one looking foolish. At any rate, may Santa bless you with many presents.




:shifty:
deepthot
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Sep, 2009 01:20 am
@Kielicious,
Kielicious;89655 wrote:
LoL, I would avoid being this gullible. Although, perhaps you satire is over my head and I am the one looking foolish. At any rate, may Santa bless you with many presents. :shifty:


Thanks for the blessing.

Yes, it is the latter: it is satire rather than gullibility. I am 79 and have perhaps seen a little more of the world and of life than some. I am glad I made you laugh.

This is a Philosophy site and in the o.p. I gave an argument as to why God - as I defined it - would be moral. I am waiting to read an argument for your position.

Or perhaps you don't believe that there is anything in the Universe bigger in importance than an individual human. If there is a value, or set of values "bigger than the both of us", if there is a force out there, or within, that you consider to be a high value, then it (as I interpret things) becomes your god. For some it is Nature or Humanity. John Dewey upheld Natural Humanism. So did my buddy, Albert Ellis, who won an award from The Humanist Society. As did also B. F. Skinner with whom I have had good discussions. I also enjoyed the chats I had with Alan Watts.

Richard Dawkins (in The God Delusion) gave an argument, but in a talk on this topic he said the following: "An American student asked her professor whether he had a view about me. 'Sure,' he replied. 'He's positive science is incompatible with religion, but he waxes ecstatic about nature and the universe. To me, that is religion!' Well, if that's what you choose to mean by religion, fine, that makes me a religious man. .... As the distinguished American physicist Steven Weinberg said, 'If you want to say that 'God is energy,' then you can find God in a lump of coal.' "


This, in part, is what motivated me to offer my definition. I want to include intelligent people like those. I do however contend that God is much, much more than merely nature and humanity, as fine as those values are. God is the meaning of the universe; just as one's life may have a meaning, so may the cosmos. If it has, I name that "God." You should be aware that my God is not the traditional, conventional God that Dawkins argues against. So be careful not to knock down a Straw Man: i.e., not to commit The Straw Man Fallacy.
 

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