Proof that God is morally good & other properties of God

@deepthot,

I would remind everyone that I did not use the word "greater."
In the o.p. I explained why, and said instead I use 'more valuable.' "More" is a mathematical notion, and "valuable" is a key term in the Logic of Value system, Formal Axiology.

Furthermore, in my origin post in this thread I said nothing about existence. I did not use the word "exist."

If anyone attempts to tell me that my God isn't real, I will gently explain that my experience says otherwise. If I'm deluding myself, so be it: it makes my personal life (and that I share with my wife) so much richer. If this is irrelevant, so be it. To me it is of vital importance.

Recall Theorem Four in the o.p. , in the proof of which it was argued that we create God. That is a part of the proposition in the statement of the theorem.

I enjoy being a co-creator and predict you will too - once you give it a chance.

2 Replies

@deepthot,

deepthot;104433 wrote:

If anyone attempts to tell me that my God isn't real, I will gently explain that my experience says otherwise.

What sort of experience?

deepthot;104433 wrote:

If I'm deluding myself, so be it: it makes my personal life (and that I share with my wife) so much richer.

See, I find it interesting that you mention it in such a way. You start by first saying your experience then you flip to an if statement. Therefore it reflects on your first statement as being not an actual experience. If it were a true experience, your second statement never would have been made. To put it another way, if I smell the scent of a flower and categorize that scent into my brain. Then later someone presents some sample scents to me and I proclaim that I have experienced one of them before. It becomes a direct link. Yet what you have done here is made a statement then implied a possible impossibility. No one ever actually does that with an actual experience.

deepthot;104433 wrote:

If this is irrelevant, so be it. To me it is of vital importance.

So no matter what evidence is presented then you would ignore. No matter what case was made, it would hold no weight. Is what you are saying here. Therefore you have convinced yourself that what you believe is truth and nothing will change that.

deepthot;104433 wrote:

Recall Theorem Four in the o.p. , in the proof of which it was argued that we create God. That is a part of the proposition in the statement of the theorem.

I enjoy being a co-creator and predict you will too - once you give it a chance.

Well couldn't say the same thing about having an invisible friend? I bet you would enjoy the flying pink elephant too. So why not give him a shot?

1 Reply

@deepthot,

deepthot;103729 wrote:

If the concept "goodness" has no universal truth for you, friend, I feel you are missing out on some value that you could have. Most of those who are aware of it would hold that goodness, would be agreed-to by any intelligences in outer space. No, these are not merely relative; they are also universal concepts. Value, in general, (or good) is the intensional set of all intensions that are similar to one another.

Who is to say that alien beings would agree to such values? You say such truths are objectively held, but you do not constitute a universal standard for the truth of such a claim, nor can you appeal to any objective, universal standard outside of the universe since the universe is all that is. To truly objectively say that such universal moral truths exists you need to appeal to prior evidence stating propositions outside of the universe. If you say God, or such claims must entail a God, it only begs the question.

I'm not sure I am missing out either. I feel like I strive towards leading an ethical life, within consideration, and albeit the extended claim of universal moral truths.

deepthot;103729 wrote:

"We look but we don't see. We have eyesight but we lack vision."

Hmmm, if this was directed towards me, couldn't I say the same for you?

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@Krumple,

Krumple;104448 wrote:

What sort of experience?

See quote in green ink at end of Post #1 by Kinkaid. And see Post #44 to learn about the kind of experiences to which I refer.

Krumple;104448 wrote:

So no matter what evidence is presented then you would ignore. No matter what case was made, it would hold no weight. Is what you are saying here. Therefore you have convinced yourself that what you believe is truth and nothing will change that.

Present some evidence ! I haven't seen any from you.

How in the world can you infer all this, in re my ignoring anything, when no case was made. I have had some nonbelieving friends who lived productive lives but who suffered serious health problems, namely, Albert Ellis and B. F. (Fred) Skinner. They are both dead now. I miss them.
I don't know of anyone who is more ready to accept change, who has less 'future shock' than I. As you may know, I was the Midwest Director of The World Future Society for 9 years. I hold on to a belief as long as it works for me.

Also see page 50 ff. of my booklet, ETHICS: A COLLEGE COURSE to see what I believe. You can tell by that document that I am attempting to secularize the field of ethics. When I use the term "science" in this connection, I merely mean by it "a body of organized knowledge, a discipline."

1 Reply

@deepthot,

deepthot;104522 wrote:

See quote in green ink at end of Post #1 by Kinkaid. And see Post #44 to learn about the kind of experiences to which I refer.

You want me to dig around to find your experience? Why couldn't it be answered again here? Those statements you made really are nothing at all. I bet I could do the same.

When Scott Roeder decided to take a gun and shoot and kill Dr. George Tiller.

That was god.

When Michael Wempe felt the need to fondle and touch young boys.

That was god.

When you feel the need to steal something.

That's god.

When you feel the need to lie to cover up your guilt.

That's god.

deepthot;104522 wrote:

Present some evidence ! I haven't seen any from you.

The burden of proof sits with you on this one. You are the one making the claim that gremlins exist. It is not up to me to provide evidence that they DON'T exist. You are the one making the claim that god exists or listens or responds to your prayers. So it is up to you to provide the evidence, not me.

deepthot;104522 wrote:

How in the world can you infer all this, in re my ignoring anything, when no case was made. I have had some nonbelieving friends who lived productive lives but who suffered serious health problems, namely, Albert Ellis and B. F. (Fred) Skinner. They are both dead now. I miss them.
I don't know of anyone who is more ready to accept change, who has less 'future shock' than I. As you may kniow, I was the Midwest Director of The World Future Society for 9 years. I hold on to a belief as long as it works for me.

Well there are plenty of god believing people who die very young from terrible illnesses too. So what exactly are you saying here? That non-believers die early where as believers such as yourself are blessed with long life? Since I am required here by this forum to be civil to other members. I would like to say that your comment is *male cow dung*.

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@deepthot,

deepthot;104433 wrote:

instead I use 'more valuable.' "More" is a mathematical notion, and "valuable" is a key term in the Logic of Value system, Formal Axiology.

More is not only mathematical. More is the comparative in grammar (just as 'most' is the superlative). You are implying here that 'valuable' is some sort of quantitative continuum, like distance or temperature. But unless there is some independent measure of how valuable something is, then it's just any old relativistic judgment.

deepthot;104433 wrote:

If anyone attempts to tell me that my God isn't real, I will gently explain that my experience says otherwise.

But that's all self-referential. I'm not going to tell you that your God isn't real, at least not to you. But your God is not real to me, and mine is not real to you.

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@deepthot,

Those whose god is not Goodness, who cannot say their god is moral, may be missing out on something. If their god makes bad things happen, and is not continuously merrciful, then they may be in for trouble.

I recommend the God defined in the o.p. of this thread to one and all. If they adopt it, they will be glad they did. That is my prediction.

Good luck to all, and Happy Holidays !!

0 Replies

Proof that God is morally good & other properties of God

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