Is death the only way out?

@xris,

rambo wrote:

I had a talk with my friend about depression and it lead to the subject of escape by death. My theory is that death is the only way out for people who feels that the odds in life/situation they are in are too great for them to overcome or could not see any other way out. People that have absolutely no reason/purpose to live or to survive. Lastly, death is for people who has lost hope for anything good in all humanity. Does anyone here have any other answer to this?

Death is not an escape. There is no escape. We cannot escape ourselves and we cannot escape existence. Death is of the body and death will come to the body however if man is not body then how do we die? This is where we become confused. We keep thinking that our body is who we are when it's who we are that creates our body. Our physical being is not who we are and therefore we cannot die. To escape ourselves via death is a fallacy. To believe that we are our bodies is also a fallacy.

Theaetetus wrote:

I have resorted to suicide and it obviously didn't work. Death is only the answer for those who give up. I enjoy my life now for what it is. I obviously couldn't have had I taken it away. Sure, suicide is an answer, but it is not a very good one. It is a rewarding experience overcoming the bullshit that live throws at you. It even reaffirms purpose for existence.

LOL. It's actually not funny because I too was a suicide victim at one time. I was even pronounced dead by the paramedics... but I was not dead. Suicide is not an answer it's just another cycle and we'll have to deal with it again if not in this life, in another. We cannot escape ourselves. Suicide reminds me of a hamster that runs and runs on the wheel that goes nowhere... trying to escape but still is.

rambo wrote:

When it comes down to it, it is YOUR life regardless. Whatever you decide to do with it is a personal choice and a choice others have to accept.

I would disagree to a certain extent on this one because we are all very connected yet separated by our own perceptions. Our perceptions that we are our body has created separateness and distinguished individuality. When, I believe we are actually ONE. A chip off the same old block if you will. The branches of the same vine and the life doesn't come from the branches. So if we commit suicide to ourselves, we are committing murder as well because what we do to ourselves we also do to those around us and in reverse.

It's YOUR body but your body is particles from the earth. Your body only is because of your spirit which is in turn the essence of who we are. Remove our spirit from our body and the body goes back to the state it started.. but our spirit or the energy that is WHO WE ARE is still ever present and will always be. There's not such thing as death. The wheel keeps going round and round....

2 Replies

@Justin,

rambo wrote:

When it comes down to it, it is YOUR life regardless. Whatever you decide to do with it is a personal choice and a choice others have to accept.

It is your life only in that you have agency - you make the decisions. But that's where it ends. The decisions you make influence others, and not just family, but every living person. In this way, your life is not your own. You are like the conductor of a train on which rides everyone alive. You make the decisions, but the decisions affect everyone else, too. To run that train off the rails is marvelously selfish.

ParadoxHaze wrote:

Not really. If a man has a wife and or children, if his parents, who created him, are still living, his life is not his own.
That's what makes it selfish.
Others just have to accept? Yeah, that's rude alright. Very rude indeed.

Basically, yes, but family is not the only group to consider. Our actions influence everyone, not just family.

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@Justin,

Justin wrote:

Death is not an escape. There is no escape. We cannot escape ourselves and we cannot escape existence. Death is of the body and death will come to the body however if man is not body then how do we die? This is where we become confused. We keep thinking that our body is who we are when it's who we are that creates our body. Our physical being is not who we are and therefore we cannot die. To escape ourselves via death is a fallacy. To believe that we are our bodies is also a fallacy.

LOL. It's actually not funny because I too was a suicide victim at one time. I was even pronounced dead by the paramedics... but I was not dead. Suicide is not an answer it's just another cycle and we'll have to deal with it again if not in this life, in another. We cannot escape ourselves. Suicide reminds me of a hamster that runs and runs on the wheel that goes nowhere... trying to escape but still is.

Then what would truly be considered death? There is a reason why we die. Death itsself has been overthought out and many percieve it as another "chapter" if you will. Whatever we percieve after death is completely artificial because no one can prove there is something. Yes you can't "escape" yourself of who you are/were nor you can escape your actual existence but you can end it and that is what suicide is about.

Also you guys fail to ignore people who don't have any friends or family for whatever reason. If they commit suicide, would that be selfish too? I don't think so. Society has made everyone a walking/rolling liability to each other. For one person to continue suffering for another due to "responsibilty" so that the other person wouldn't feel the consequence is selfish also on thier behalf. So it goes both ways. In reality the ripple effect is really no that great.

2 Replies

@rambo phil,

rambo wrote:

Then what would truly be considered death? There is a reason why we die. Death itsself has been overthought out and many percieve it as another "chapter" if you will. Whatever we percieve after death is completely artificial because no one can prove there is something. Yes you can't "escape" yourself of who you are/were nor you can escape your actual existence but you can end it and that is what suicide is about.

Also you guys fail to ignore people who don't have any friends or family for whatever reason. If they commit suicide, would that be selfish too? I don't think so. Society has made everyone a walking/rolling liability to each other. For one person to continue suffering for another due to "responsibilty" so that the other person wouldn't feel the consequence is selfish also on thier behalf. So it goes both ways. In reality the ripple effect is really no that great.

So I tried to stay out of this thread as long as possible because I know that many of you may not agree with my ideas but I am going to get this out.

Death is not a way out and it is not a solution to anything. The entire reason people commit suicide is weakness, short sightedness, and even worse, stupidity.

I knew 4 people who committed suicide and I can honestly say that I have no respect for their memory. The simple truth is that the only reason you would try to kill yourself is because you know nothing about yourself. If you did then you would know that there is NEVER a situation which cannot be resolved and there is NEVER something so terrible that you should choose not to survive it. Weakness is a bane these days. It seems to be soaked into the bones of almost everyone. The slightest fear and they over react. Look at car accidents. They are generally caused by someone losing their self control because they are afraid and over react. Same thing with suicide.
"Oh no! I'm not happy. I have nothing to live for. I should kill myself." Bull. If it weren't for the bad times, the good times would mean nothing. If it weren't for the trials, there would be no success. If it weren't for the hopeless situations, there would be no hope. Suicide is for those who have no grasp on their emotions and who are run by them. Self control, self respect and self knowledge prevent such situations.

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@rambo phil,

rambo wrote:

Then what would truly be considered death? There is a reason why we die. Death itsself has been overthought out and many percieve it as another "chapter" if you will.

Death comes to all things physical, except it's not death it's rebirth. It dies only to start new life and this happens to everything in the physical world... or so perceived. I all completes a cycle of harmonic balance. It's not another chapter it's a continuation of the cycle of life.

rambo wrote:

Whatever we percieve after death is completely artificial because no one can prove there is something. Yes you can't "escape" yourself of who you are/were nor you can escape your actual existence but you can end it and that is what suicide is about.

You cannot end it. Life is not something left within the hands of humankind to end. We know not of it therefore how are we supposed to end something we do not even know how it exists? Technically, it can be proved by examples everywhere around us. Talking about balance and the cycle of life and it's completeness. It's there and it's in front of us should we choose to actually see it.

Our perception of death is based on our perception of life. Our perception of life differs from person to person so does our perception of death. If our perception of life is not accurate, then how is it our perception of death can be?

rambo wrote:

Also you guys fail to ignore people who don't have any friends or family for whatever reason. If they commit suicide, would that be selfish too?

I don't know, is it? Truly, this is not the issue. Selfless or selfish doesn't necessarily apply. If they choose to take their own life they will not escape and will be faced with the adversity again next time.

rambo wrote:

I don't think so. Society has made everyone a walking/rolling liability to each other. For one person to continue suffering for another due to "responsibilty" so that the other person wouldn't feel the consequence is selfish also on thier behalf. So it goes both ways. In reality the ripple effect is really no that great.

What if it all ripples for eternity? What if you and I are just ripples in a see of eternal life? What if everything we think, say and do send ripples that have an eternal effect? Something to think about.

Your friend cannot escape the pain and agony he suffers by killing his body. The only way to overcome his adversity is to rise above it with the resources he's been gifted. He could very well be a mere reflection of your own thoughts and it's not he who has the problem with suicide but yourself who has it and I who has it.

It's been said that in order to fix someone else, fix ourselves. :whistling:

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@rambo phil,

Choosing death is not a positive choice, its choosing against life. You lose forever all ability to ever make a change.
Maybe you see no answers today.
But how about tomorrow. How about a chance encounter that can change your life. How about the new lessons you learn every day.
By choosing death you would throw all that away. It is such a tragic waste.

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@rambo phil,

rambo wrote:

Then what would truly be considered death? There is a reason why we die. Death itsself has been overthought out and many percieve it as another "chapter" if you will. Whatever we percieve after death is completely artificial because no one can prove there is something. Yes you can't "escape" yourself of who you are/were nor you can escape your actual existence but you can end it and that is what suicide is about.

Also you guys fail to ignore people who don't have any friends or family for whatever reason. If they commit suicide, would that be selfish too? I don't think so. Society has made everyone a walking/rolling liability to each other. For one person to continue suffering for another due to "responsibilty" so that the other person wouldn't feel the consequence is selfish also on thier behalf. So it goes both ways. In reality the ripple effect is really no that great.

What do you think of those who give their lives to others ? do you think that is a fruitles gesture or a magnificent gift? This inward looking self interested attitude realy annoys me..I sat with a friends wife for six hours who had tried commiting suicide and talked her through her problems..she thanked me and said i had realy helped she then went home and hung herself...how do you think i have lived with that guilt of what did i say or not say, how do you think her loving husband felt? her caring mother..The only impression i got from her was her own self interest and her family had little concern for her..I wonder could you be so sure that life ends here and now and your unresolved life only becomes an unresolved afterlife..

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@Icon,

Some of these responses are; well, quite frankly... very disturbing. I hope that in bringing this up perhaps the feeding frenzy of judgmentalism that seems to be blooming here can somewhat mitigated. If not, perhaps just bringing it to light might do some good.[INDENT] To say you 'know why' others have committed suicide is arrogant presumption. Knowing even the how of thought processes is fleeting and iffy; barely touched upon by the budding sciences we have. But you, you'll sit there on your couch, caged by your daily crisis' and profess to understand, know and then judge that much pain from a mind and condition you cannot know. This, I'd suggest, is the hallmark of medieval thought.
[/INDENT]This is the same kind of cancerous thought that causes the fat bellied man to sit back in his armchair, having never left his little state, and proclaim that he understands the current mideast conflict, or the two-dimensional thinking that motivates the repressed christian to say they 'know why' someone becomes a prostitute. To *not* fully understand it is our indisputable lot, to *try* may be the philosopher's task but withhold compassion and pass judgment is - I believe - immoral and close-minded arrogance run amuck. You might understand it within the context of your world, as might I, but that's all one can rightfully claim.

What we do know about it, or can seemingly agree on, is that it is a self-destructive act that removes the possibility that someone's life can get better. And while I'd agree that active discouragement of this as an option is a good thing, this kind of arm-chair condemnation (in such negative terms) ignores both the perspective and compassion owed when looking at the issue.

Has it not occurred to a one of you who've judged, just how bad would your life have to get for this to become a 'good idea'? Have you not thought, at all, just how desperate and bleak your condition could possibly get? Blinders on, eyes closed... never assume things 'couldn't get worse'. So have a little heart; don't let your 'disgust' rise so high that it overwhelms your sense of humanity. Or... well, go ahead and have a ball. I fear it unlikely that one paultry post like this might help the egotistical mind think anew.

Thanks

1 Reply

@Khethil,

Khethil wrote:

Some of these responses are; well, quite frankly... very disturbing. I hope that in bringing this up perhaps the feeding frenzy of judgmentalism that seems to be blooming here can somewhat mitigated. If not, perhaps just bringing it to light might do some good.
[INDENT]To say you 'know why' others have committed suicide is arrogant presumption. Knowing even the how of thought processes is fleeting and iffy; barely touched upon by the budding sciences we have. But you, you'll sit there on your couch, caged by your daily crisis' and profess to understand, know and then judge that much pain from a mind and condition you cannot know. This, I'd suggest, is the hallmark of medieval thought.
[/INDENT]This is the same kind of cancerous thought that causes the fat bellied man to sit back in his armchair, having never left his little state, and proclaim that he understands the current mideast conflict, or the two-dimensional thinking that motivates the repressed christian to say they 'know why' someone becomes a prostitute. To *not* fully understand it is our indisputable lot, to *try* may be the philosopher's task but withhold compassion and pass judgment is - I believe - immoral and close-minded arrogance run amuck. You might understand it within the context of your world, as might I, but that's all one can rightfully claim.

What we do know about it, or can seemingly agree on, is that it is a self-destructive act that removes the possibility that someone's life can get better. And while I'd agree that active discouragement of this as an option is a good thing, this kind of arm-chair condemnation (in such negative terms) ignores both the perspective and compassion owed when looking at the issue.

Has it not occurred to a one of you who've judged, just how bad would your life have to get for this to become a 'good idea'? Have you not thought, at all, just how desperate and bleak your condition could possibly get? Blinders on, eyes closed... never assume things 'couldn't get worse'. So have a little heart; don't let your 'disgust' rise so high that it overwhelms your sense of humanity. Or... well, go ahead and have a ball. I fear it unlikely that one paultry post like this might help the egotistical mind think anew.

Thanks

I would agree with you if we where fat men sitting on our fat rears with no experience of life and its problems..Ide also agree with you that cetain individuals do need compassion andunderstanding, i dont condemn every individual..It was the manner it was protrayed " if life gets a bit nasty should we consider suicide" Should we condone it? should we condemn it? Do you think the self centred souls who consider suicide would be convinced by any views we might express..I do get angry with them and i dont care what you think of my response..Im not a heartless human and i think compasionate but ask me to support suicide for a few of lifes problems no way Jose..

1 Reply

@xris,

xris wrote:

I would agree with you if we where fat men sitting on our fat rears with no experience of life and its problems..Ide also agree with you that cetain individuals do need compassion andunderstanding, i dont condemn every individual..It was the manner it was protrayed " if life gets a bit nasty should we consider suicide" Should we condone it? should we condemn it? Do you think the self centred souls who consider suicide would be convinced by any views we might express..I do get angry with them and i dont care what you think of my response..Im not a heartless human and i think compasionate but ask me to support suicide for a few of lifes problems no way Jose..

I think your statement in the middle there, "... if life gets a bit nasty should we consider suicide" is the most telling. And I think your response was just fine... we're just talkin here Smile

What I'm addressing is what I perceive to be a propensity by people (myself included, of course) to oversimply or "two-dimensionalize" actions we feel are wrong or inappropriate. It's almost as if in our effort to express how dissatisfied we are, or how wrong we see the act to be, we over compensate and in so verbalizing, issue a mass condemnation to real people (who are now gone; and who might not be were compassion just a wee bit more plentiful).

I don't know if this was you Xris - this is one of those "if the shoe fits" approbations I've issued (one in which, I'd like to add, I'm quite open to the prospect that my perspective may too be in need of improving).

I guess the short version of what I'm hoping to get across is this:

We shouldn't profess to know the 'why' of suicidal actions. Each would be inextricably-tied to that individual's inner processes
If we can't understand them (such amateurs of human behavior that we are), we shouldn't 'condemn the individuals'.
Condemn the behavior, by all means... but people and memories of people are contingent on our treatment. Is it ever ethical to judge an individual act of ultimate desperation by someone who was so low, so hurt, that they felt they had no way out?
I do like your opinions; I like all opinions expressed here. My harsh statements were quite purposefully so, but only directed towards the mindset I perceive to have been expressed.

And yes, I may completely wrong. Thanks for responding Smile

1 Reply

@Khethil,

A shoe was offered to me whether it fits i cant say...I can appreciate compassion should be our concern for the individual...The trouble is i have seen so many souls take the easy path for little apparent reason..I have seen the devastation it causes to those who loved them..I may be wrong but i have only seen the pain of the grieving so my compassion is tinged with anger..Understanding is very difficult for some but there are those whose lives are so desperate i could never condemn them..I can only be grateful i have never contemplated this action through all my problems but for the grace of chance go any of us..

1 Reply

@xris,

xris wrote:

A shoe was offered to me whether it fits i cant say...I can appreciate compassion should be our concern for the individual...The trouble is i have seen so many souls take the easy path for little apparent reason..I have seen the devastation it causes to those who loved them..I may be wrong but i have only seen the pain of the grieving so my compassion is tinged with anger..Understanding is very difficult for some but there are those whose lives are so desperate i could never condemn them..I can only be grateful i have never contemplated this action through all my problems but for the grace of chance go any of us..

Well put.

You mention 'easy path' and I've seen others allude to this. I see and can understand how one might practically view this: Easier to 'get out' than to 'solve it'. But ... and this is very had to enunciate, from my experiences this is only how it'd be viewed from the outside.

I'll turn 46 this year... about, oh, 20 or so years ago I went through a series of events that stripped me of everything that had meaning. I kept my shoulder to the wheel and grinded out; I tried to keep positive and roll with the punches admitting what I could and keeping faith in those precepts that gave me comfort. Unfortunately, this didn't help, what happened was things just got worse; just when I thought I could keep my sanity something else (a series of events that seem incredibly-unbelievable) would continue and I weakened.[INDENT]Imagine trying to stay on your feet in a boat - you can keep your balance ok with the waves but you need to stay with it. Now imagine someone throwing heavy boxes at you, you dodge, catch, deflect and try to stay on your feet. I believe that for everyone, there is a point where tragic and/or traumatic events in life can overwhelm the strength of the soul. Add to this a culture of self-centeredness and judgment and suddenly that scenario shows our hero completely alone with no hope for assistance. Who here thinks they have no 'break point' where the only thing left is pain and desperation? I believe there is a break-point in our strengths and ability to withstand what life throws at us. Shall we call these people selfish, stupid, ignorant and lazy?
[/INDENT]So when I reflect on my experiences and see what I perceive to be a lack of compassion and negative judgment, I feel it important to interject the other side of the coin.

Thanks for engaging Xris, much appreciated.

1 Reply

@Khethil,

No thankyou Khethil for putting a balance on the debate..it stops the pack instinct...

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@Icon,

Icon wrote:

...

Death is not a way out and it is not a solution to anything. The entire reason people commit suicide is weakness, short sightedness, and even worse, stupidity.

I knew 4 people who committed suicide and I can honestly say that I have no respect for their memory. The simple truth is that the only reason you would try to kill yourself is because you know nothing about yourself. If you did then you would know that there is NEVER a situation which cannot be resolved and there is NEVER something so terrible that you should choose not to survive it. Weakness is a bane these days. It seems to be soaked into the bones of almost everyone. The slightest fear and they over react. Look at car accidents. They are generally caused by someone losing their self control because they are afraid and over react. Same thing with suicide.
"Oh no! I'm not happy. I have nothing to live for. I should kill myself." Bull. If it weren't for the bad times, the good times would mean nothing. If it weren't for the trials, there would be no success. If it weren't for the hopeless situations, there would be no hope. Suicide is for those who have no grasp on their emotions and who are run by them. Self control, self respect and self knowledge prevent such situations.

No, suicide is not answer. I agree to that. I said so earlier in this thread.

But what you say here is far too easy. How can you judge the strength of any soul? How can you know what goes on in in the mind of another human being? What do you know of the demons that may lurk there? There is a limit to everyone's self control.
There ARE situations that can not be resolved. There ARE fears too bad to be contemplated.

1 Reply

@rambo phil,

Anyone that I have been aware of in my life that has gone as far as suicide didn't do it for any reason I would have imagined worthy. For example: There was a young fella that I worked with who's girlfriend cheated on him. He went home and hung himself. That was absolutely silly in my opinion. It's certainly a deeper psychological problem in cases like that.

I've seen mentioned in the thread that "Life is a gift." I hear it all the time. But, is it? I didn't ask for it. I did not exist in a prior state that allowed me to desire it that I am aware of. And well, my life has not been particularly swell. God didn't throw in a gift receipt so that I might exchange it. I can't help but feel that I've been drafted into a war as opposed to having been given a gift.

That being said, and the others here who have been honest enough to bring into the conversation their own suicide attempts, I'll admit that I've been there as well. I took my trusty Colt .38 Police Positive and a single bullet (my final ode to Barney Fife, wondering if my friends would figure out my reason for selecting it over the .45) and went out to a nice quiet place deep in the woods the next county over. It wasn't a sudden decision. It took awhile. It's interesting the thought process, thinking about it by telling yourself that of course you wouldn't do it. Slowly you talk yourself into it as being a viable option. But then it took over, unplanned, as if I were in a tunnel and there was only one direction to go and you had to go now. There I was. Then I was hit with a line from John Fowles The Magus. "All is hazard. The only thing that will preserve us is ourselves." That of course made me consider the irony in the similarity between the character Nicholas and his suicide attempt and my own. That made me feel normal for a moment. I woke from the daze and thought. "This is stupid regardless of the outcome. I may as well finish the ride." I've felt much less anxiety about worldly issues since. Almost to the point of fearlessness. Sometimes we just need to look Thanatos in the eye, and tell him to **** off.

I have gazed into the abyss.
The abyss has gazed into me.
Neither of us liked what we saw.

See, if John Fowles had killed himself before he wrote The Magus, I might be dead right now. Yes, lives inter-connect beyond just family. That's why it's good to make sure that you get your yearly dose of It's a Wonderful Life.

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@sarek,

sarek wrote:

No, suicide is not answer. I agree to that. I said so earlier in this thread.

But what you say here is far too easy. How can you judge the strength of any soul? How can you know what goes on in in the mind of another human being? What do you know of the demons that may lurk there? There is a limit to everyone's self control.
There ARE situations that can not be resolved. There ARE fears too bad to be contemplated.

What I know of life comes from going through hell and back. I have been in situations that would drive most men to the point of insanity and I have always come out of it.

No, you're not going to win them all. Part of life is losing.

Have your child die in the womb in the 5th month. Have your fiance tell you that you never loved her or the child because the miscarriage didn't drive you to the brink of not talking or moving for two months like it did her. Have her tell you that all of your efforts to be strong for her were wasted because she expected you to be destroyed.

Be shot in the back by the drug dealer that your girlfriend was cheating on you with because she developed a taste for meth.

Wallow in self loathing because you have nothing left to give after your father is diagnosed with brain cancer the same time that your room mate loses his job, you don't have enough money to eat, much less pay rent, your girlfriend dumps you for not spending time with her, your job expects you to work 80 hours a week or get fired, your ex-fiance and love of your life commits suicide and you get hit by a car while riding your bike to the hospital to see your dad all in the same week.

Break your back and be told you'll never walk again, losing your sponsorship as a pro-athlete.

Watch your only friend kill himself slowly with drugs and alcohol and be powerless to stop him.

Have a man trying to hunt you down and kill you because you took the wrong girl home from the bar.

These are only a few examples. There have been so many more times in my life where there was no way out. So, I decided to lose. I decided to swallow my pride and self pity and survive. Sometimes that is all you have left to do. Once you give that up, you have accepted that you are too self centered, egocentric and pathetic to continue. The fact of the matter is that life is not a bed full of roses. The real world sucks. People do not care about you. No one will ever truly understand you. No one will ever give you all that you give them. To expect this is foolishness. You are alone, unwanted, used and spit out. You are lost, stupid and worthless in the grand scheme of things. Still, you have only one thing which you can control. That one thing is your choices. Suicide is the willingness to give up your only power. To me, it is inexcusable. There is NOTHING which you cannot survive.

Even in the utmost of pain and suffering, people have pushed on. Even through torture, hopelessness, with death surrounding them, people have lived on. Suicide is weakness. Strength is not being un-phased by the events of your life. Strength is deciding to live through them.

2 Replies

@Icon,

Icon, I trully admire your strength because to go through the story you told us only the strongest would survive. Or should I say, it was this life that made you one of the strongest. I can only imagine how hard it was for you. But I am courious about one thing:

Icon wrote:

...
Even in the utmost of pain and suffering, people have pushed on. Even through torture, hopelessness, with death surrounding them, people have lived on. Suicide is weakness. Strength is not being un-phased by the events of your life. Strength is deciding to live through them.

You pictured it beautifully but what made you decide that strength is a "good" thing and weakness is a "bad" thing?

1 Reply

@proV,

proV wrote:

Icon, I trully admire your strength because to go through the story you told us only the strongest would survive. Or should I say, it was this life that made you one of the strongest. I can only imagine how hard it was for you. But I am courious about one thing:

You pictured it beautifully but what made you decide that strength is a "good" thing and weakness is a "bad" thing?

I am not viewing it, per se, in terms of good and bad. I am viewing it in terms of continuity of survival. I see survival as necessary being that the only thing we have is that which we can contribute. If we do not survive, we cannot contribute. If we cannot contribute, we have no purpose. Without purpose, life means nothing.

We all have strengths and weaknesses. To be only strong, without weakness is to shoulder the problems of the whole world. No one, to this point in human history, is capable of that. Weakness, however, is something which we can and should over come. If you find a weakness in yourself, something which you do not like, you should change it. You are the only one who has control over that. Control is gained through self knowledge, self respect, and understanding.

Someone once asked me if I believed in fate or if I thought that I could control my life. My answer was "Yes". We can control ourselves, our actions, our perspective and our determination to succeed. What we cannot control is the result of our actions. The consequences will always fall at least slightly outside of our range of fore-thought. Though we control our actions, we can never know the consequences. So we have absolute control of ourselves (provided you take the time to get to know yourself) but we have no control over the world around us. This is why strength is important. You must be strong enough to make choices and handle the consequences, regardless of what they might be. If you do not then your are nothing more than a parasite, living off of the rest of the world; trying to feed off of the success of others.

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@Icon,

Icon wrote:

These are only a few examples. There have been so many more times in my life where there was no way out. So, I decided to lose. I decided to swallow my pride and self pity and survive. Sometimes that is all you have left to do. Once you give that up, you have accepted that you are too self centered, egocentric and pathetic to continue. The fact of the matter is that life is not a bed full of roses. The real world sucks. People do not care about you. No one will ever truly understand you. No one will ever give you all that you give them. To expect this is foolishness. You are alone, unwanted, used and spit out. You are lost, stupid and worthless in the grand scheme of things. Still, you have only one thing which you can control. That one thing is your choices. Suicide is the willingness to give up your only power. To me, it is inexcusable. There is NOTHING which you cannot survive.

Very well put and admirable (and it sounds, quite earned) conviction there. It sounds like you've been through some pretty hard knocks; I'm glad you're still with us.

But these experiences, these views and the strength of heart you've gained - these are all your experience. The dynamics at work that kept you from the brink of ultimate dispair (whatever they were and are), those situations that bolstered that will and so on, these are all specific to your unique personality - they are specific to you.

Would you say that there could arise situations in others' minds wherein your judgment "There is NOTHING which you cannot survive" wouldn't apply? Or these conclusions you've reached based on your experience apply to everyone, regardless of strengths, experiences, life-views and so on?

Again, appreciate your sharing and well-articulated posts.

Thanks

1 Reply

@Khethil,

Khethil wrote:

Very well put and admirable (and it sounds, quite earned) conviction there. It sounds like you've been through some pretty hard knocks; I'm glad you're still with us.

But these experiences, these views and the strength of heart you've gained - these are all your experience. The dynamics at work that kept you from the brink of ultimate dispair (whatever they were and are), those situations that bolstered that will and so on, these are all specific to your unique personality - they are specific to you.

Would you say that there could arise situations in others' minds wherein your judgment "There is NOTHING which you cannot survive" wouldn't apply? Or these conclusions you've reached based on your experience apply to everyone, regardless of strengths, experiences, life-views and so on?

Again, appreciate your sharing and well-articulated posts.

Thanks

Am I truly different from anyone else? Can my strengths be classified as unique?

I don't think so.

Robert Heinlein defines a true human as capable of anything. This has been proven true time and time again. I think the biggest issue is that the current generation has not had to deal with hardship and true trouble.

All things work on nature. The harder you push on an object, the harder it pushes back. Equal and opposite reactions. The more harder the trouble, the more you fight back to get through it. The problem is that the motional state of the current world is weak. I have noticed that Men and Women are very rare and instead have been replaced with children of exceptional age. A child cannot handle the full consequences of an adult because they are not prepared for them. Preperation is all in the self. It is your responsibility to be ready for what life deals to you.

You tell me that there are differences and that there are certain things which people cannot survive. Pray, tell me what these things are. Give me an example.

1 Reply

Is death the only way out?

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